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Have you ever smoked marijuana?
Yes
60%
 60%  [ 21 ]
No
40%
 40%  [ 14 ]
Total Votes : 35

Author Message
shavluk
Guest








PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

some valid points here but the basic premise remains that whether we act and do something about this war on are own children, or continue to ignore it and bankrupt our medical plan to arm police like storm troopers,,,,,the drugs and crime will remain.

cannabis saved my life,
i am a victim of this ridiculous law created racism and i find it sad that in the year 2006 we still live under someone Else's moral yoke
JDot





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 727
Reputation: 63.5
votes: 5
Location: Ontario(GTA)

PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Thats a pretty huge negative....

I guess you'de have to see that impact first hand to understand..


Ya, everytime I go to one of my friends house, I swear he has not got up off his couch in 10 years. X-Box and the gunj is a killer for him. But he is 26 now and it is starting to become a shame.
JDot





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 727
Reputation: 63.5
votes: 5
Location: Ontario(GTA)

PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I can say one more thing. Weed is the last thing we should be worrying about if we are talking about kids. Right now more and more kids are getting into the hard stuff.

It is really mind blowing, and now this crystal meth is starttng to hit small towns and people you thought you knew since you where a kid are totaly different people in a matter of a month. :(
PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just because your friend is lazy(in your opinion) does not mean that pot makes him that way. I can't believe you think that is a logical conclusion. I could say I have a know a guy who plays hocky and he is an aggressive jerk. If I use your logic then hockey turns people into aggressive jerks, better a pass a law banning hockey sticks.
biggie





Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 1738
Reputation: 44Reputation: 44Reputation: 44Reputation: 44
votes: 10
Location: Ottawa, Ontario

PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Again you seem out of touch with reality. Ask any teenager and you will find out that pot IS much easier to get than tobacco or alcohol."

Having just been a teenager, i will tell you with utmost certainty that it is NO easier to get pot than it is to get tobacco or alcohol. In fact, it was often more difficult, as you would have to vie for meeting times etc.. whereas a modified g2 made at home, or purchased from a fellow student was more than effective for purchasing alcohol or tobacco without incident.

"It makes absolutely no sense to say ok its ok to have 3 grams but not allow for a legal means to buy it."

again, you demonstrate a complete lack of understanding... Decrim isn't saying its ok - its saying its not, but we're not going to ruin the rest of your life over it, so you can pay a fine instead.

"Give me a break, we have already established that it is cheaper if you buy larger ammounts. Just because I buy an ounce at a time so I don't have to go searching for it 2-3 times per week and pay triple the cost does not mean I have a problem, or that I am planning on selling it."

you've indicated right here that this is a problem . . . 3 grams a week 2 to 3 times a week!? thats problem territory. If you have to get high everynight - you have a problem... just like if you have to get drunk every night.

your comparison to 3 beer is unfair ; I could have 3 beer and still be in a sober state. One joint and you're high...
Beer is also legal, and I believe it should remain that way. So it is immaterial how much beer I have in my fridge(I always keep it well stocked ;)... Its not a controlled substance. were you to get your way, there would be no limits on the amounts - in a scenario of decrim., there would be mandated minimums for trafficking so as to allow for the charge to be handed down.

Decrim is the BEST option - because it allows serious offenders to be jailed for something they can prove - gangs/gangsters are often taken down due to drug infractions. These people don't cease to exist in a world with legalized marijuana - they just become more difficult to catch. Their supply of money doesn't dry up, it just turns to different types of crime(probably still remain with drugs!). Possibly this crime takes on more violent forms, in fact.

Criminals don't exist because of marijuana being illegal - they exist because human nature... you'll never rid the world of criminals, and ridding it of marijuana prohibition certainly will not.

"cannabis saved my life, "

oh ya? and how did it do that exactly...
Saved yours, cost others' theirs(drug debt etc..)

" or continue to ignore it and bankrupt our medical plan to arm police like storm troopers"

WHAT!?!?!?! like STORMTROOPERS? Give it up... Stop smoking so much of that stuff and you might realize how crazy that statement is.. "Soldiers, with guns... in our cities.."
biggie





Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 1738
Reputation: 44Reputation: 44Reputation: 44Reputation: 44
votes: 10
Location: Ottawa, Ontario

PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"I am not just insulting police officers, I am saying that it is silly to trust the assertions of people who benefit so much from prohibition. When the police stop telling lies, maybe one day I will respect them again."

Maybe its the fact that I'm training to be a police officer that has me steaming over these words, or the numerous ride-alongs i've been on, and seen the impact of things like this.. The guns i've seen removed from grow-ops..

Police don't benefit financially from prohibition - in many ways the efforts of arresting a drug suspect take away from their time doing important police work - hence the reason I advocate decrim - quick ticket and no major paperwork. In fact, the vast majority of police officers don't uphold mere posession laws.. They confiscate and they move on.

For you to suggest that cops are liars is disgusting. . . it further highlights how little of a clue you truly have on how the world works...
PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The fact that you support prohibition is even less surprising considering that you plan to make a living off of it. Kinda proves my point about those who profit from prohibition being its biggest supporters. Much easier than looking for real criminals who might try to hurt you. I know cops are not all liars in fact I know a few really nice cops. There are a whole bunch of nice cops who are members of L.E.A.P. I assume you will soon find out when you become a cop that alcohol users will keep you the busiest. All those domestic disputes, and drunken brawls should be a lot of fun.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"your comparison to 3 beer is unfair ; I could have 3 beer and still be in a sober state. One joint and you're high... "

Totally wrong buddy, you just don't get it, cannabis does not impair you, beer does. I could pass any sobriety test you could throw at me even after smoking 12 joints. My wife or my parents can always tell when I've had a couple of drinks but nobody ever knows if I have smoked pot or not. The red-eye is the only telltale sign and visine takes care of that lickety split.

Some of the greatest minds of our time have been cannabis smokers. Cannabis has only been illegal for about 80 years, before that it was the most prescribed medicine in british and american pharmacopia.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Maybe its the fact that I'm training to be a police officer that has me steaming over these words, or the numerous ride-alongs i've been on,"

C'mon tell the truth, you're bored now that high school's over and you have no "nerds" to pick on anymore right? You have this irrepressable urge to demonstrate to everyone what a big man you are right? Grab your crotch a lot, tell everyone how big it is?
FF_Canuck





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 3360
Reputation: 73.4
votes: 17
Location: Southern Alberta

PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I know cops are not all liars in fact I know a few really nice cops. There are a whole bunch of nice cops who are members of L.E.A.P....


Do you view and evaluate all aspects of life through the lens of the legalization debate?

Quote:
I am saying that it is silly to trust the assertions of people who benefit so much from prohibition. When the police stop telling lies, maybe one day I will respect them again. Liars do not deserve my respect, and wearing a uniform does not automatically make you worth respecting...


To clarify, you only respect police, and people in general, who agree with your views on marijuana?

Quote:
C'mon tell the truth, you're bored now that high school's over and you have no "nerds" to pick on anymore right? You have this irrepressable urge to demonstrate to everyone what a big man you are right? Grab your crotch a lot, tell everyone how big it is?


These quotes, plus numerous other gems from further back in the thread, make it quite clear that you have some serious issues with police officers and authority in general, however you want to frame it. You have some perfectly legitimate points you could be making, but you can't seem to build a single argument with insulting your opponents and condemning them as liars.

Quote:
you plan to make a living off of it... Much easier than looking for real criminals who might try to hurt you


Much of your "the police are mostly liars" meme seems centered around this theory of police motives. Guess what? Like you and me, police by and large support things because they believe them to be true, and because they think what they support is best for society. You disagree? Fine, but quit accusing everyone but yourself of lying.

Furthermore, as has been demonstrated often in this thread, legalizing marijuana will not lead to any meaningful reduction in crime, violence, or organized criminal activity. What this means, is that it is totally non-sensical that Police Officers seek to protect their careers through prohibition.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used to idolize cops when I was a kid. I wish I still could feel that way. I have seen too many good people's lives ruined and familes torn apart by the lies prohibitionists tell.
Its enough to make a guy lose faith in the system.
There is a quote from Revelations that warns of liars, I'll have to look it up, I always have my grandfather's King James version on my desk, I'll find it and post it later. Gotta run
biggie





Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 1738
Reputation: 44Reputation: 44Reputation: 44Reputation: 44
votes: 10
Location: Ottawa, Ontario

PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Some of the greatest minds of our time have been cannabis smokers."

- Drunks too...


"C'mon tell the truth, you're bored now that high school's over and you have no "nerds" to pick on anymore right? "

yeah, I wasn't a geek my whole life... right buddy. If I was the person you're trying to make me out to be, do you think i'd be spending a good deal of my time posting on political websites? Right... You've got a perverted sense of reality, and if you need to resort to that type of rhetoric to look like a big man yourself, it says a lot about the strength of your arguments.

"Totally wrong buddy, you just don't get it, cannabis does not impair you, beer does."

The very senate report you cited goes against this... Or did you forget that after those 12 joints?

Quote:

3. That cannabis does cause alteration of
mental functions and as such, it would not be
prudent to drive a car while intoxicated;


"There is a quote from Revelations that warns of liars, "

Its talking about people like you ;)

"I assume you will soon find out when you become a cop that alcohol users will keep you the busiest."

I know that... As for your suggestion that I will crack down on drug users for money, its a sad one. you don't know me from a whole in the wall, and your sickening sense of reality means you can judge me based on the fact that I agree or disagree on a topic. What if I told you I was a casual drug user at one point? Or perhaps I can tell you that almost all of my friends still are? Am I going to be going after people that use? no...
Dealers? Absolutely!! they are grimey, scum of the earth people... they evade taxes, they take part in violence, they try to get people addicted to substances in order to make more money. Most are into theft, robberies etc..

"I have seen too many good people's lives ruined and familes torn apart by the lies prohibitionists tell. "

All those people had the choice whether to obey the law, or not... they made the choice, they knew the risks and they chose to ignore them. They got what they deserved. Take some personal responsibility for a while.

I think its interesting how all you crack-pot pot mongers don't seem to be able to discuss any issue without bringing up marijuana laws. The world doesn't have all these problems because of marijuana prohibition. Guess what? Those problems existed before it was illegal to smoke pot. In fact, these laws exist BECAUSE of the problems caused by drugs.
Ruffles





Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 1
Reputation: 12.4
Location: Ottawa, Ontario

PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Hyperbole and rhetoric. You would have us believes that tens of thousands of people are sitting in jail for simple possession or private production of marijuana?


Here is an interesting quote from "The Emperor Wears No Clothes" by Jack Herer.
It's in reference to the USA but if our Prime Minister has his way it may well apply to Canada soon and to some extent this has already happened, in my opinion.

www.jackherer.com

-----------------------------------
Approximately 50% of all drug enforcement money, federal and state, during the last 60 years has been directed toward marijuana!

Some 70-80% of all persons now in federal and state prisons in America wouldn't have been there as criminals until just 60 or so years ago. In other words we, in our (Anslinger and Hearst inspired) ignorance and prejudice, have placed approximately 800,000 of the 1.2 million people in American prisons (as of August 4, 1998) for crimes that were, at worst, minor habits, up until the Harrison Act, 1914 (whereby the U.S. Supreme Court in 1924 first ruled that drug addicts weren't sick, they were instead vile criminals).

Eighty percent of these government "War on Drugs" victims were not dealing. They have been incarcerated for simple possession. And this does not include the quarter of a million more in county jails.

Remember, just 20 years ago, in 1978, before the "War on Drugs," there were only 300,000 persons in American prisons for all crimes combined.
------------------------------------
Craig
Site Admin




Joined: 29 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Donald Hughes wrote:
Perhaps if you want to reduce the number of people who turn to drugs to better their lives it, using police or soldiers isn't the best place to start.


We make things illegal that harm society. These drugs harm society in the following ways...

1. Cause more crime
2. Cause more illness
3. Cause more poverty

These people may want to "better their lives" through drugs but they are costing me money and security. THAT is why they are illegal and should always be so.
PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is the new slavery, private prisons hire out their slaves to work for big corporations at slave wages. Whats really sick is that Bush is a major stakeholder in the private prison industry so every time a drug user goes to jail, Bush gets paid.

Yeah my take on you was totally off base mr "big erection" pfft!

You fit the profile just fine I think.

Dealers are scum? Actually I quite like all my dealers, they sell me a product that I want to buy, I fail to see the scummyness in that. All drug transactons are consensual. Nobody is forcing anyone to buy their product. I think people who force their will on others are the scum. The fact that you want to become a cop, so that you can force your morals on others explains your stance on prohibition quite nicely. It is a conflict of interest for cops to lobby for prohibition, kind of like having a health minister who is heavily invested in pharmaceutical stock.(Tony Clement)
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