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Craig
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 6:55 pm    Post subject: It's Dion Reply with quote

I can't think of a better outcome for Conservatives. We have a definite shot at a majority now. Dion has ZERO appeal west of Ontario and his charisma makes Harper look like Sinatra.
Montgomery





Joined: 26 Sep 2006
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Location: Antigonish, Nova Scotia, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apparently he's hated in Quebec, too, and opposed the "nation" resolution quite militantly. That gives us a real chance there.

I'd say our chances for a majority in the spring just shot up. Harper is going to let the sword fall on the spring budget; it'll be chock full of tax cuts, a solution to the fiscal imbalance, and will basically form the election platform.

Dion won't play well out west at ALL; he'll fumble severely in Ontario; he'll hand the federalist/soft nationalist vote in Quebec to us on a silver platter; the Maritimes won't be inclined to vote for yet another Quebecer for Prime Minister. This could be a real sweep if we play our cards right.

Flush with cash and eager to fight: Stephen Harper for majority government in 2007!
Cool Blue





Joined: 21 Sep 2006
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Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1) Did I call this or what

2) I wouldn't be so quick to celebrate.

Dion has a lot of strenghts that people seem to be overlooking.

For example, he's the only candidate that was able to unite the party and his leadership ensures that Kyoto will be a major issue in the election.
Montgomery





Joined: 26 Sep 2006
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Location: Antigonish, Nova Scotia, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the event of him bring up Kyoto, we can also talk about how
1) Greenhouse gas emissions increased RAPIDLY while his portfolio did absolutely nothing to contain them;
2) How he supressed knowledge that Canada was unable to meet its Kyoto requirements in order to lie to the worldwide environmental community about it to gain face.

If they decide to talk crap about Kyoto, the Conservatives can hammer them even worse than under any other leader. The failure of Canada to meet Kyoto can practically be laid at Dion's (and the rest of the Liberal's) feet. If you're not going to meet targets, don't sign onto the thing in the first place.
palomino_pony





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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dion was the best choice for the Liberals and the wost for the CPC. The other two were perceived to be to left or to right to make the herd feel comfortable. He is also the "peoples leader" not the party officials leader.

I think Dion will prove a more formatable opponent than people think. He does not have the rock star charisma, but he has the quiet charisma that appeals to Canadians. I think can pull the "little guy from Shawinigan" shtick better than his mentor Chretien with the backpack he slings over shoulder and his rimless glasses.

Dion is someone that the Liberal grassroots can rally around. Iggy and Rae did not appeal to the Liberal rank and file. It would have been better to go against one of these "backroom" candidates as the election volunteers would not show up to support them with door knocking, phone calling, etc.

The fact that he was not a party brass candidate means that he has more control over things such as campaign strategy and policy. Even though he is a Chretienite, he does give the impression that he could rid the Liberals of some of baggage.

I would have preferred Iggy or Rae. If Iggy won, some of the left leaning Liberals would have left the party for the NDP or Greens. And if Rae won, the Liberals would have lost some of the right leaning Liberals to the CPC.

Dion may have zero appeal west of Ontario, but neither did Chretien.

BTW, does anybody know the provincial delegate support Dion had going into the convention? I think he 16%, but how was that distributed across Canada and how was it relative to the others? Where were Kennedy's supporters from as Dion managed to get almost all of them after Kennedy pulled out.
Mac





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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dion is now what Harper was a few years ago... a rather dour academic ideologue who is very intelligent but perceived as inflexible and prickly... but capable of bringing together a fractured party. Look for the Liberal Party to undergo huge changes in the next couple of years.

Unlike Rae or Iggy, I don't see Dion forcing another election anytime soon. He'll let the minority play itself out while rebuilding the party... if the Bloc and/or the Dippers allow this to happen. They have a card (or two) to play in this poker match but it might be for naught. As unlikely as it seems on the surface, I can see Dion cooperating with Harper for the good of the country and his party.

-Mac
Hasdrubal





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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dion maybe weak, but don't over estimate the intelligence of the average Canadian, because he's the Liberal leader this man has a very good shot at becomming another Quebec PM for Canada. As history proves, Canadians like voting for Quebecers.
biggie





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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Palomino_pony on this one. Although he polled poorly among canadians, there's nothing to say that won't change. He's as liberal as they come - not offending in any way shape or form. He's a quebecer who argued against the nation motion - but he is a quebecer nonetheless.

He was the last one I wanted to see win.
Craig
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The reason why Dion sucks is that he won't siphon any voters from other parties. Rae would have largely killed the NDP and Iggy would have stole from the CPC (and given some to the NDP). Dion won't bring in new voters from either party. Sure he makes everyone happy in the party but he doesn't make them excited. And with an election just around the corner there is nothing worse than an apathetic membership.
Buddy Kat





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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper and Dion share a lot of quality's , like logic and being meticulous. It should make for some great exchanges. However Dion has the edge as it will be difficult for Harper to pick him apart , Dion on the other hand will find it easy to rip Harper to shreds on many issues especially the environment.

At the very least if Dions Liberals lose the next election Canadians will probably be informed at nauseum of the environmental and social consequences they face . That's basically all a Canadian can ask for is to be informed so they can make the right decisions.

Gentleman start your engines ..vroom vroooom :D
FF_Canuck





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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Dion on the other hand will find it easy to rip Harper to shreds on many issues especially the environment...


Not likely. Dion's also a recipient of the fossil of the day award, and as Montgomery said,

Quote:
In the event of him bring up Kyoto, we can also talk about how
1) Greenhouse gas emissions increased RAPIDLY while his portfolio did absolutely nothing to contain them;
2) How he supressed knowledge that Canada was unable to meet its Kyoto requirements in order to lie to the worldwide environmental community about it to gain face.


I know it doesn't matter, but IMO, we shouldn't be fighting elections on provincial matters anyways....
Craig
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buddy Kat wrote:
Harper and Dion share a lot of quality's , like logic and being meticulous. It should make for some great exchanges. However Dion has the edge as it will be difficult for Harper to pick him apart , Dion on the other hand will find it easy to rip Harper to shreds on many issues especially the environment.


Dion isn't in the same league as Harper in terms of intelligence or debating skills. And his weak english will leave him struggling to find the right words in the debates.
palomino_pony





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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig wrote:
Dion isn't in the same league as Harper in terms of intelligence or debating skills. And his weak english will leave him struggling to find the right words in the debates.


This is very true, but Canadians are a forgiving bunch. You want proof? A proof is a proof because it is proven (remember this gem)... Look at Chretien, a PM who could not speak well in any official language. :wink:
FF_Canuck





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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed. But Cretin made up for that with frothing-at-the-mouth passion, which isn't scary when it comes from a french guy, for some reason. I don't believe Dion would have as much success with a similar tactic.
palomino_pony





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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FF_Canuck wrote:
Indeed. But Cretin made up for that with frothing-at-the-mouth passion...


That is a disturbing yet funny picture... :lol:
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