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biggie





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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:20 am    Post subject: A Conspiracy theory for the rest of us.. Reply with quote

Lets consider this for a moment;

The far left(and middle east) loves to spew crazy propoganda about the "zionists" controlling america. I would suggest that it is in fact the arab's who are gaining more control over the world as a whole. Why do Europe and Russia and China consistently support the arab world over the israelis(and the americans) - Aside from some of their obvious anti-semetic remnants?

one word:

OIL

;)


One could also argue that the Arab world specifically engineered 9/11 in order to frame Iraq(thinking it would be the obvious target) - because of Sadam's distrust of fanatical Islam. What better way for Iran to continue its expansion of radical islamic rule over the region? Get the entire region(and much of the world) more pissed off at the United States.

I mean, we could stretch this into this last Israel-Lebanon conflict.

Now we just need to convince michael moore and al gore, and it'll be considered fact by every idiot in the western hemisphere in a matter of a week.
Michael





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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 3:21 am    Post subject: Re: A Conspiracy theory for the rest of us.. Reply with quote

biggie rection wrote:
One could also argue that the Arab world specifically engineered 9/11 in order to frame Iraq(thinking it would be the obvious target) - because of Sadam's distrust of fanatical Islam. What better way for Iran to continue its expansion of radical islamic rule over the region? Get the entire region(and much of the world) more pissed off at the United States.


I think you're onto something, Biggie.

But all roads still lead to Bush, because, as we all know, he's working for the Saudi royal family, who are actually a Mossad front, which is why bin Ladin wants to take them out so badly. Ya see?
biggie





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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

how could i forget!
kwlafayette





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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Middle Eastern countries do have control of a lot of the world's oil. It makes sense that if China wants oil, they will get more of it by being friendly with a country that has oil. Take Sudan and China for instance. China stops the UN from taking action on Darfur, Sudan pumps oil for China, the war in Iraq ia all about oil, and all the lefties are happy.

PS. I think Iran and Bin Laden would actually not be very supportive of each other. Sure radical Muslims want the world to convert, but Iran wants it to be a Sunni world, and Bin Laden wants a Shiite world.
Michael





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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think bin Ladin is a Sunni, and has quite cozy relations with Iran.
Stephen





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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Michael wrote:
I think bin Ladin is a Sunni, and has quite cozy relations with Iran.


Iran is a Shiite theocracy.
kwlafayette





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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess I had it backwards then. I knew that they were not from the same sect though. What is the Wahabism that they have in Saudi that people talk about? It seems to have produced more than its fair share of radicals.
Michael





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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sunni or Shiite, I have a book somewhere that details bin Ladin's ties to Iran. I'll try and find it.
Donald Hughes





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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hilarious ignorance aside, a recent report from Chatham House made a similar point in that it is difficult to think of a better policy for Iran's government than the one engaged in by Bush over the past five years. Take out a regime that had invaded it previously, open it up to Iranian-friendly groups like SCIRI and al-Sadr's militia, drive up the speculative premium in oil prices, encourage a small shift away from technocratic modernizers towards conservatives like Ahmedinejad, fragment the annoying Taliban regime to the east, empower groups like Hezbollah that give Iran a direct link in Lebanon that was waning with the collapse of Syrian occupation, all the while making the West look either ineffective or aggressive when it came to their nuclear program. It is sincerely difficult to think of better short-term gains for the Iranian state, barring more apocalyptic visions of Shi'ite control over Saudi oil reserves and widespread conversion.
kwlafayette





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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Saudis definitely do not want the Iranians to be at the center of the Arab religious/political/cultural world. That is where the Saudis see themselves. As a man od Saudi ancestry, one would guess that Bin Laden's aims would be closer to Saudi Arabian ones than Iranian.
Donald Hughes





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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The Saudis definitely do not want the Iranians to be at the center of the Arab religious/political/cultural world. That is where the Saudis see themselves. As a man od Saudi ancestry, one would guess that Bin Laden's aims would be closer to Saudi Arabian ones than Iranian.
There are serious factual problems with almost every part of every sentence in this quotation.
FF_Canuck





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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please elaborate, then.
Donald Hughes





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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Calling bin Laden someone of "Saudi" ancestry and implying he aims at some sort of Saudi ascendancy ignores the fact that he hates the Saudis and wants to destroy the current Saudi regime, it is perhaps his number one goal. The Saudis allowed Americans to put troops near some of the holiest sites in Islam, this was a major grievance of bin Laden's. Or, rather, it was indicative to him of the regime's overall views towards Americans. The Saudis see themselves as central because of their riches, allies, control over the holy cities and perhaps a sense of religious legitimacy as fortunate rulers. Iran does not threaten them except perhaps as related to stability in Iraq and the longshot potential of their wealth being jeopardized by a Shi'a revival/uprising in the northeastern oil fields (which AFAIK are largely tended by foreign migrants anyways). Otherwise Iran only threatens them in a very indirect way. Iran cannot compete to be the "center" of Islam because the Saudis control Mecca, Medina and other treasured cities. The idea that some Farsi-speaking Shi'a republic could challenge the Saudis seems absurd to them.

Much more dangerous to them are two ideologies within the Arab world. One is pan-Arab nationalism, usually secular or Islamic in a functional way, that might threaten to destroy their Monarchy and seize the key holy cities to grant legitimacy to some pan-Arab project. The other is more concerned that the Saudi family has become corrupt puppets for "Zionist and Crusader" policies that can only be fixed by dismantling their rule and instuting a much more "fundamentalist" version of (Sunni) Islam. The latter pole typically invokes concepts like an international Islamic community (umma) and may even claim to support the return of the Caliphate.

It is interesting to note that the CIA believes that a new Caliphate will emerge by 2020.
kwlafayette





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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of the reasons is that the Iranians are not Arab, they are Persian. There are some race related bigotries that go way back. There are so many facets to what is going on in the Middle East, the only reason a lot of these different factions are not at each other's throats is that they see the West as the greater enemy right now. Iran is taking advantage of that to move themselves to primacy in the Muslim world. They gain everytime they defy another toothless, useless resolution from the UN. They gain every timethey thumb their noses and get away with it.

They would also gain if they were slapped down.
Donald Hughes





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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you point out the Arab/Persian difference, it confuses me that you would say the Iranians want to be at the center of the Arab world. I think Iran understands its place quite well in its own perceived world.
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