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Craig
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 8:17 pm    Post subject: Will abortion ever be illegal in Canada again? Reply with quote

Liberals would have you believe that Canadians are dead-set against any legislation that impedes abortions. Many polls have shown that Canadians are open to certain restrictions to abortions...

Quote:
An Environics Research poll from October 2005 showed that 60 per cent of Canadians want to see some restrictions placed on abortion access, either from conception, at three months or at six months gestation.
LifeSite

I would like to see abortion made completely illegal but realistically these are the changes I would like to see in the short to medium term...

1. Ending late-term abortions (after 20 weeks gestation)
2. Ending state funding for the elective procedure
3. Parental consent

Canada is one of the only countries in the western world that offers no protection whatsoever to the unborn child.

Please click on this link and then click on the "Toronto Abortion Clinic" link. It costs them 30 cents for every click. Help drain their financial resources.
biggie





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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with the option of abortion. I don't buy the "child has a mind before its born" nonsense.. I'm not too impressed with late abortions - but i think in many cases its more humane to terminate the pregnancy than it is to let the child grow up in:

a. a crackhouse
b. poor
c. with unloving parents
d. with parents not even old(or responsible) enough to run their own lives properly
etc...

I just don't agree with paying for it. (certain exceptions for obvious rape cases - ie. serious bruising, tearing etc..) But I also have no religion weighing in on my opinion.

Plus we all know that the liberals and NDP tend to support it more than conservatives - Maybe it will help us grow in numbers :wink:
Tim K





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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Abortions completely illegal, eh? Even in cases where the mother's life may be at risk?
Michael





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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 3:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A lot of us who are against abortion as a means of getting rid of inconvenient children feel that way because of our faith. We believe that every soul is created purposefully and is loved by our Creator. Abortion on demand is the exact opposite of that view. It's not about a woman's right to choose, or the 'tragedy' of unloved, ignored children, or even the life of the mother. It's about denying the existence of God. When there is no God, there is no soul to worry about, and lives that are inconvenient are made worthless.
Craig
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tim K wrote:
Abortions completely illegal, eh? Even in cases where the mother's life may be at risk?


Most prolife groups do not consider it to be abortion when the mothers life is at risk.
Tim K





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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

why would that not be defined as abortion?
biggie





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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Michael wrote:
A lot of us who are against abortion as a means of getting rid of inconvenient children feel that way because of our faith. We believe that every soul is created purposefully and is loved by our Creator. Abortion on demand is the exact opposite of that view. It's not about a woman's right to choose, or the 'tragedy' of unloved, ignored children, or even the life of the mother. It's about denying the existence of God. When there is no God, there is no soul to worry about, and lives that are inconvenient are made worthless.


What I never understand about this argument is that - if god is allowing us to do it, how are we stopping his will? Or are you equating this to some sort of eve/apple scenario?

This doesn't cloud my vision fortunately.. I see societal problems every day due to people who shouldn't raise children raising them... The fewer of those children the better if you ask me.

When I was a teen, had my girlfriend become pregnant, abortion would have been the only choice - why ruin 3 lives when you can only ruin one "life".

I mean, male masturbation should be just as shunned - should it not? you're ending the potential for the life similarly? Its a stretch, and i'm splitting hairs... but still, i see little true difference.

A life without god/soul doesn't mean that inconvenient lives are worthless - not at all.
I'm not talking about killing babies - i'm talking about stopping the process of genetic construction.
kwlafayette





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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

People really do not seem to understand the concept of free will and religion. I see that misunderstanding in Hugh Jorgan's post above. I see it every time pepole ask how can God allow something to happen.

The thing about free will is, God has a plan, but you are in no way obliged to follow it. God will let you stray as far as you want from the plan. God does not dictate to man. God does not make the world a hell hole; people do. Either by actively seeking to make it a worse place, or by simply doing nothing.

So to sum up. God's will is not enforced, people are free to lie, steal, rape and murder as they will.
palomino_pony





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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Take a step back and ask yourselves: Is this really why people supported Harper in the last election? I don't think that the support for the CPC translates to support of anti-abortion and anti-same sex marriage.

I think a lot of Canadians who supported Harper are looking for principled leadership that will create an environment for all Canadians to prosper, not just those with ties to the Liberal Party of Canada. For the most part, I don't think that they are looking to reopen things like abortion. The CPC campaigned on having a free vote on same sex marriage. I have no idea how many people voted for the CPC for this reason alone, or if they just put that part of the platform aside as the need for a fiscal conservative and anti-big government was more important.

If we had to, I would prefer that this be debated in a general election, not after a recent minority government win. I bet the CPC won't touch this as they know it will divide their ranks and turn off voters.

I would also suggest that for those who want to make this an issue, there are other <u>parties</u> to support.
Donald Hughes





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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Please click on this link and then click on the "Toronto Abortion Clinic" link. It costs them 30 cents for every click. Help drain their financial resources.
This is an embarrassing suggestion. Please don't do this.
kwlafayette





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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with the white horse. Canadians wanted a principled leader and that is why they voted for Harper. I have no doubt that if Harper believed that abortion was a big issue for a lot of Canadians, he would do something about it regardless of the political fallout. Since it does not seem to be a big issue for a lot of people, he will leave it alone.

Abortion really is not about choice. The choice was already made, to have sex. It seems simple to me; if you absolutely positively cannot afford to get pregnant, then don't have sex. I don't know why people think this is repressive or whatever. Just like if you absolutely positively cannot live without both your feet, don't play at the switch yard.
kwlafayette





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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One last thing I don't understand about the abortion debate. Pro-abortion people talk about unwanted children, and lowering the crime rate; isn't there equal probability that you are offing Mozart instead of Olson?
FF_Canuck





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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Abortion really is not about choice. The choice was already made, to have sex. It seems simple to me; if you absolutely positively cannot afford to get pregnant, then don't have sex...


Being a non-religious person, that really summarizes my opposition to abortion right there. And its not so much just sex - most people who have abortions aren't in mature, stable, long-term monogamous relationships. Its sex that occurs outside of long-term relationships, unprotected by birth control pills, condoms, or other technologies, and with no thoughts or considerations of the future.

Its about personal responsibility. People are held responsible for reckless actions that have to possiblity of destroying life - its equally as valid to hold them responsible for reckless actions that can create life.
Craig
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tim K wrote:
why would that not be defined as abortion?


One could equally argue in that case that it is abortion which ever route you choose. You either abort the baby or the mother.

I don't know the reasoning for it but I ran for the Family Coalition Party in the last Ontario provincial election and our definition of abortion did not include cases where the mother's life was in jeopardy.
biggie





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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

palomino_pony wrote:
Take a step back and ask yourselves: Is this really why people supported Harper in the last election? I don't think that the support for the CPC translates to support of anti-abortion and anti-same sex marriage.

I think a lot of Canadians who supported Harper are looking for principled leadership that will create an environment for all Canadians to prosper, not just those with ties to the Liberal Party of Canada. For the most part, I don't think that they are looking to reopen things like abortion. The CPC campaigned on having a free vote on same sex marriage. I have no idea how many people voted for the CPC for this reason alone, or if they just put that part of the platform aside as the need for a fiscal conservative and anti-big government was more important.

If we had to, I would prefer that this be debated in a general election, not after a recent minority government win. I bet the CPC won't touch this as they know it will divide their ranks and turn off voters.

I would also suggest that for those who want to make this an issue, there are other <u>parties</u> to support.


Agreed! As an "economic conservative", I find the idea of voting based on ssm or abortion to be a ridiculous notion. Social change is not brought on by laws and statutes, its brought on by societal change.
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