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TealTories





Joined: 26 Oct 2006
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Location: Calgary

PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 12:26 pm    Post subject: Is Partisanship Driving you MAD? Reply with quote

In the US the House of Representatives are made up of all kinds, right leaning Democrats, left leaning Republicans and when bills get passed it may get passed with 30 votes from the opposing party, because it is good policy.
Although here in Canada the Liberals would argue to the death that the sky isn't blue if the Conservative said it was. It is also blatently obvious, once the Bloc or the NDP support it the Liberals oppose it.
Imagine the Bloc and the NDP opposed the Income Trust decision. Politics aside the Liberals would pass it. Not because they are not ready for an election, because it needed to be done, and the Liberals know it.
The CWB issue is the same thing, how could Liberals claim they know what is right for western Canadian farmers when 90% of the rural vote, that would be effected, is held by the Conservatives.
Dont even get me started on crime policies.
The Liberals dont have a platform, no new ideas, and because of this they feel their job is just to oppose.

Obviously an elected senate would help with this democratic defecit, what else can be done to allow parliment to work?
Blue Meanie





Joined: 20 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think this is one of the big flaws in the British parliamentary system we inherited. Its all or nothing. Bad legislation has to be accepted in the name of party solidarity and keeping total power, if you want some good legislation.
Glenn
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
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Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The flaw in the American system is the pork barrelling. The law mantioned in the first post, the one passed by 30 members of the opposite party. Was it really good policy, or was there a billion or so tacked on for each Congressman's district?
biggie





Joined: 06 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Partisanship is terribly annoying...

The CPC is relatively constant and principled - and so is the NDP. Both sides are pretty set in their policies, but the liberals bounce back and forth - attacking just for the sake of attacking.

It is sad... but it does allow for laws to be made - If everyone was split we'de have a hard time getting any laws through... just look at bad municipal gov'ts for a good example.
FF_Canuck





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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't believe I'm saying this, but ... If it weren't for the 'pragmatic partisanship' of the Liberals in the last sitting and this current one, we'd be at the polls already. The Bloc and the NDP have been very consistent about voting in line with their general raison d'etre. So in the short term, its worked to our advantage.
Cool Blue





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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I can't believe I'm saying this, but ... If it weren't for the 'pragmatic partisanship' of the Liberals in the last sitting and this current one, we'd be at the polls already.


The same could be said for the CPC in the last parliament.

However, I imagine that if the Liberals weren't in the middle of a leadership race that they wouldn't be as cooperative.
biggie





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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool Blue wrote:
Quote:
I can't believe I'm saying this, but ... If it weren't for the 'pragmatic partisanship' of the Liberals in the last sitting and this current one, we'd be at the polls already.


The same could be said for the CPC in the last parliament.

However, I imagine that if the Liberals weren't in the middle of a leadership race that they wouldn't be as cooperative.


Agreed...

We'll see what they're like when they emerge - although no matter who they choose, I don't think any of them is a strong priministerial contender - at least none of the leading choices.
FF_Canuck





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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed. I'd suspect that with Rae or Ignatieff at the helm, we'll be defeated on the next confidence vote. A slightly lesser known individual, say Dion or Kennedy, and they'll try to build up some gravitas before forcing an election.
biggie





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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FF_Canuck wrote:
Indeed. I'd suspect that with Rae or Ignatieff at the helm, we'll be defeated on the next confidence vote. A slightly lesser known individual, say Dion or Kennedy, and they'll try to build up some gravitas before forcing an election.


I agree - the positive is that even the polls show that Harper is more liked than any of them... and the reality of North American Politics(or almost all politics for that matter) is that the leader is who draws the vote.

Harper has done an excellent job of building his image - even down to the clothing he wears. He's got some serious character building going on. All the pictures of him with children. He has a minor role in controvertial decisions, but major roles in decisions that can't upset anyone.
He's been a strong, principalled leader and I for one think he's done an absolutely incredible job..
traditional tory





Joined: 08 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Partisanship is more of a Canadian thing. Even Britain sees backbenchers revolt, just ask Thatcher or Blair. This country loves to make certain issues sacred so that no one can question them. Same seems to go for parties; you are expected to see the party line as the bible.

I think it started because opposition parties liked to portray themselves as different from the government, so they oppossed everything (even when it was not smart to do so). These Liberals are just following those who came before.
Blue Meanie





Joined: 20 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

traditional tory wrote:
I think it started because opposition parties liked to portray themselves as different from the government, so they oppossed everything (even when it was not smart to do so). These Liberals are just following those who came before.

This is true. But there has to be some point where you make your self look absurd. If the CPC claims something is "black", the Liberals may very well be justified in opposing that and argue that it is actually "white". But if the CPC concedes and says "Okay, it is white", for the Liberals to then turn around and say "No its not, its black!", they look absurd. That's whats happening with the Income Trust debate. Even the NDP and the Bloc get it.
Glenn
traditional tory





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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your right. The other test will be the environment, if the CPC and Layton wind up with a comprimise and the Liberals are still going on about Kyoto, they are done
biggie





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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blue Meanie wrote:

This is true. But there has to be some point where you make your self look absurd.


I think the Liberals passed this point Long ago 8)
Blue Meanie





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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

biggie rection wrote:
Blue Meanie wrote:

This is true. But there has to be some point where you make your self look absurd.


I think the Liberals passed this point Long ago 8)

That's true from the perspective of you and me and many other Canadians, and yet they keep getting elected. Sometimes I feel like the inmates here are truly running the asylum. :lol:
Glenn
kwlafayette





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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

traditional tory wrote:
Partisanship is more of a Canadian thing. Even Britain sees backbenchers revolt, just ask Thatcher or Blair. This country loves to make certain issues sacred so that no one can question them. Same seems to go for parties; you are expected to see the party line as the bible.

I think it started because opposition parties liked to portray themselves as different from the government, so they oppossed everything (even when it was not smart to do so). These Liberals are just following those who came before.

In Britain the backbenchers understand that they are not part of the government. The government is the PM and his cabinet; Parliament is there to keep the government in check. In a system that is functioning correctly anyway.
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