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cbasu





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 10:07 pm    Post subject: When Harper met Layton ....(updated) Reply with quote

Nov 1/06: Now they have met, and PM Harper has agreed to send the Clean Air Act to a Special Committee for study and improvement. This is an excellent development.

****************

Okay, so they have not yet met, but they will (within 24 hours per Layton's "ultimatum").

I think this is a brilliant move - policywise and strategically - for PM Harper. I do not really side a downside for the Conservative government (or for the NDP and the Bloc) if these two can agree on a framework for moving the Clean Air Act forward.

Except perhaps this: Canadians may have to put up with Jack Layton prattling on about his Better Climate Change Act from now till the end of time.


Last edited by cbasu on Wed Nov 01, 2006 10:51 am; edited 1 time in total
KPK





Joined: 22 Oct 2006
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Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No doubt Jack will demand the PM shutdown the oil sands which will cost thousands of jobs. I have yet to hear a credible alternative plan from anyone that will allow us to meet our goals by 2012 and not kill 1000s of jobs in Alberta and Ontario.
cbasu





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KPK wrote:
No doubt Jack will demand the PM shutdown the oil sands which will cost thousands of jobs.

Then the PM can tell him where to go. Jack will be sensible, because he probably needs a Clean Air Act more than the PM.
cosmostein





Joined: 04 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Prime Minister called Jack Layton Out, and now generally he is screwed.
The beauty about the NDP party is that you can pander to anyone, and promise almost anything you want in various platforms because you know there is no chance of being elected.

Jack Layton is the voice of disagreement on EVERY issue in parliment, and generally the NDP feels that if they oppose the Conservatives on every issue they will stand a chance at picking up some of the Liberal "Stephen Harper Drinks Human Blood" crowd.

But now Harper looks reasonable, he has agreed to meet with the NDP on this issue. The kicker is that now the NDP actually has to have a plan in place and one that will not cost Canadians thousands of jobs today, and considering what our major industies are I really don't see a means of doing this outside of MASSIVE tax credits for big business to get up to snuff sooner, a pill I don't see Mr. Layton swallowing.

The CPC promised a "Made in Canada" solution to the Enviroment, it was an election promise and the 2050 deadline is nearly identical to that of Dions the Liberals only Eco-Warrior.

I dare the opposition to force Canada to go to the polls on this issue less then a year from the last time, and after a budget that kept 60% of Harpers promises in one shot.

Bring it on.
Buddy Kat





Joined: 24 Sep 2006
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Location: Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think harper extending his willingness to listen to any helpfull alternatives in dealing with the environment is really good. I don't think for a minute creating mass unemployment is in the cards but maybe a way to speed up the clean air process.

The trick is ..how do you get the big corporations to build or install clean air filtering systems etc. without destroying both economy and environment. I think the days of passing off the mess on to the consumer are over...it's got to happen at the source.

With the new global warming report warning of a financial catastrophe that might be the incentive they need. Of course if you seen the pentagon report on global warming from a few years back and the predictions in store for the British they have reason to be a little more petrified than the rest of us. Canada being an energy exporter is a real plus for us..$$$$$ 8) :lol: as the same report warned of massive energy shortages that will virtually throw countries into the stone age including the US, but not Canada.
TealTories





Joined: 26 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with the masses in this thread.
The perception will be great politically for the PM.

Although I dont think it will resolve anything. Layton is going to propose radical changes in the Oil Sands and no changes to the auto industry. Then Layton will come out kicking and screaming that the PM signed a deal with the Devils in the O&G industry.
Evilgenius





Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Posts: 62
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Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Come into my parlour, said the spider to the fly...".

Layton apears to have a pathological need for grandstanding, and to feel like he matters. I'm pretty sure that Harper has him totally figured out, and is simply letting him walk into a trap. If an election is called over this, it's almost certainly going to look like Layton's fault, with Harper being the reasonable, understanding party.

What Layton doesn't seem to understand is that Harper isn't in the same position as Martin was last year. Harper doesn't need to be propped up, and he won't give in to blackmail. If there is an election, the worst that can happen is that the CPC will form another minority government, and not be any worse off than at present.
TechnicalBard





Joined: 31 Oct 2006
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Location: Calgary

PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 2:51 pm    Post subject: The consumer will pay... Reply with quote

In response to Buddy Kat's comment, you can impose regulations on corporations, and if those regulations are not so onerous that shutting down your operation is the most economic course of action, they will add the technology.

But they will pass the cost onto the consumer, in higher prices of the goods they sell. If the corporation takes a financial hit, it is the shareholders (ie. your retirement plan) that will take the brunt of the pain.

The real problem with carbon capture and storage is not the capture, it's the storage. The cost of CO2 capture can be anywhere from $10 to $80 per tonne, depending on the technology and process in question. The real problem is transportation and storage. This is not yet proven to be economic or even doable. Storage of CO2 in underground reservoirs might only be temporary. We don't know yet...
McGuire





Joined: 05 Sep 2006
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Location: Soviet Pictouwestistan

PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TealTories wrote:
I agree with the masses in this thread.
The perception will be great politically for the PM.

Although I dont think it will resolve anything. Layton is going to propose radical changes in the Oil Sands and no changes to the auto industry. Then Layton will come out kicking and screaming that the PM signed a deal with the Devils in the O&G industry.


Nothing like some Alberta bashing to please the grande latte crowd in T.O.
TealTories





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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

McGuire wrote:
TealTories wrote:
I agree with the masses in this thread.
The perception will be great politically for the PM.

Although I dont think it will resolve anything. Layton is going to propose radical changes in the Oil Sands and no changes to the auto industry. Then Layton will come out kicking and screaming that the PM signed a deal with the Devils in the O&G industry.


Nothing like some Alberta bashing to please the grande latte crowd in T.O.


Unfortunately you are right. Until the mass consumers of energy acknowledge their role in global warming we will be at a standstill.
Cool Blue





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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

this is a smart move by Harper because:

1) It is in the best interest of the CPC to present the NDP as a viable alternative to the government; it will suck away Liberal votes

2) The NDP wants to be seen as the party that is serious about the environment i order to not lose votes to the Greens
Cool Blue





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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There really is only one solution when it comes to air pollution/GHG but the left will never accept it: build dozens of nuclear reactors.

If you'll remember a few weeks ago some environmental group published a list of the top 10 GHG emitters in Canada. Out of the 10 6 or 7 were government-run electrical generating organizations such as Ontario Power Generation.

The reason why is because a lot of government produced electricity is created by burning coal. I believe Ontario gets about 40% of its electricity from burning coal.

Replace those coal generators with nukes and we'd have a massive cut in GHG emissions.
don muntean





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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my opinion Mr. Harper aught not trust Layton - any involvement with him could turn into a serious botheration as 'jack' is - a game-player a machinator - a saboteur - without doubt in this 'invitation' he's calculating...
palomino_pony





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
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Location: Lower Mainland, BC

PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the Canadian public is wise to Layton's game. He is threatening a non-confidence motion this week, something that the Liberals won't/can't support at this time due do their leadership race. Looks like some more media grandstanding to me.
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

palomino_pony wrote:
I think the Canadian public is wise to Layton's game. He is threatening a non-confidence motion this week, something that the Liberals won't/can't support at this time due do their leadership race. Looks like some more media grandstanding to me.


No one wins other then perhaps the Bloc and the Tories if an election is called,
With the Media hype the Green Party has recieved in the last few weeks thats pretty well Jack's worst Nightmare, but he knows damn well that the Liberals are not going to walk into a December election with Bill Graham or a wet behind the ears newly minted leader.

This is just like the budget, had the Bloc not supported it the Liberals would have voted to support it, Jack is grandstanding but is anyone really suprised?
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When Harper met Layton ....(updated)

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