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kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
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Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And you just ignore the fact that peoples who have had no or very little contact with Europeans and others still live in the stone age, with a stone age standard of living.

PS. Societies change, appear, and disappear all the time. If you are saying that it is bad that a particular society changes because of contact with others, or disappears because of contact with others, I do not think you can build a case. It is just the way of things, you could ask the people of Victorian England, but that society no longer exists.
biggie





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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the reason for the success of those nations is largely due to the increased freedoms in them. It is understandable that nations with little freedom find it difficult to adapt to society where they have freedoms. They are often rife with corruption. They also don't understand the principles of democracy the same, and in todays day and age it is a powerful style of governance. In addition, all of the top performing nations are easing their way or are already free-market economies.. I think that was the primary benefit of the various colonial powers - you'll notice that the more successful the colonies come from nations which have traditionally provided increased freedoms...

The US being the most successful - its not a surprise given the amount of economic freedom they provide. (at least for an adam-smith type of guy like myself ;) )
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 6155
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votes: 28
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you have to note too that freedom always seems to have a price. Some people had to go to war, some had to be abused by imperial powers. But I think all the peoples who have paid for their freedom are stronger today because of it.
biggie





Joined: 06 Sep 2006
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Location: Ottawa, Ontario

PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 1:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kwlafayette wrote:
I think you have to note too that freedom always seems to have a price. Some people had to go to war, some had to be abused by imperial powers. But I think all the peoples who have paid for their freedom are stronger today because of it.


I couldn't agree more - One of the reason's I think my peers have such a lack of respect for that freedom.. Also one of the reasons I am joining the forces; to protect that freedom. I don't feel we can truly appreciate that freedom until we fight for it. And I think a lot of the petty stupid things that we deal with on a daily basis become a lot more petty and stupid in comparison to the idea of being forced to think or feel a certain way. To be afraid to speak one's mind and excersize one's freedoms.

Another reason why nov. 11th should be a day recognized by a %&%@ of a lot more people than are recognizing it right now... :x
jnarvey





Joined: 04 Sep 2006
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Location: Vancouver

PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
And you just ignore the fact that peoples who have had no or very little contact with Europeans and others still live in the stone age, with a stone age standard of living.

Your statement is ignorant.

It is not isolation from European cultures that continues a stone age standard of living, but isolation from all other cultures. A tiny village in the middle of a jungle today would benefit as much from Japanese technology as from anything the Swedes might provide.

Quote:
Societies change, appear, and disappear all the time. If you are saying that it is bad that a particular society changes because of contact with others, or disappears because of contact with others, I do not think you can build a case.

You are misrepresenting my words yet again. This isn't what I've said at all. If the imperial powers wanted to spread their political philosophy, kitchen products and genes to distant lands and peoples out of the goodness of their hearts, they didn't have to colonize anyone at all. But they did, with far-ranging negative consequences.

You ignore the fact that these indigenous cultures could have simply traded for access to new technologies and political ideas. The conquest of empires was never necessary - except for the colonizing powers to get a leg up on each other back in the old country.

Thankfully, your self-righteous rationalizations for the greed and aggression of the imperial powers are no longer in such common currency as they once were.
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