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KPK





Joined: 22 Oct 2006
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Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 6:39 pm    Post subject: How to win back Quebec Reply with quote

1) Ban semiautomatic weapons and have more stringent screening of gun owners instead of having a form asking perspective owners whether they are crazy.

2) Extend the land mines treaty to include cluster bombs (which the Israelis used in Lebanon) . Any unexploded ordinance look like toys to children. It is appalling that these weapons were used at all during the conflict in Lebanon.

3) We all know what a waste of money a domestic gun registry is from a cost/benefit perspective. Instead start an initiative to create an INTERNATIONALWeapons registry so all weapons can be tracked. Police would then be able to identify the sources of illegally smuggled weapons. It can also be used to find out where terrorists and militiias in armed conflicts are getting their weapons. No gun owners could complain because it would be an international effort. Even if this initiative fails, the Tories can say they tried and would be given full marks for the attempt.
biggie





Joined: 06 Sep 2006
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votes: 10
Location: Ottawa, Ontario

PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 6:59 pm    Post subject: Re: How to win back Quebec Reply with quote

KPK wrote:
1) Ban semiautomatic weapons and have more stringent screening of gun owners instead of having a form asking perspective owners whether they are crazy.


$$$ CHACHING!!! So you refuse guns to people who MAY be insane? Nice idea, but it smacks of ineffectiveness. With all the P.C. garbage in this country today, a law like this is asking for discrimination suits left right and center.

Quote:
2) Extend the land mines treaty to include cluster bombs (which the Israelis used in Lebanon) . Any unexploded ordinance look like toys to children. It is appalling that these weapons were used at all during the conflict in Lebanon.


Cluster bombs are extremely effective weapons vs. armoured regiments in particular. I agree these weapons should not be in use in civilian areas - open desert I have no problem with, against military targets. "Steel Rain" scared thousands of Iraqi soldiers into surrendering in the gulf war. The weapons have their merritts, and I think it is up to individual countries to use them appropriately(or face international tribunal if they fail to). I don't believe in limiting our ability to eventually use any weapon(including Nuclear). Closing doors like that is dangerous business, and might back-fire on us one day.

Nice Guys finish last...

Quote:
3) We all know what a waste of money a domestic gun registry is from a cost/benefit perspective. Instead start an initiative to create an INTERNATIONALWeapons registry so all weapons can be tracked. Police would then be able to identify the sources of illegally smuggled weapons. It can also be used to find out where terrorists and militiias in armed conflicts are getting their weapons. No gun owners could complain because it would be an international effort. Even if this initiative fails, the Tories can say they tried and would be given full marks for the attempt.


The international community can't even track Uranium, Plutonium, Nuclear weapons and spent uranium.. how would we track guns? Most of the guns in use today were built over 20 years ago...

I'm sorry, but appeasing quebec isn't worth the cost.. if they don't like it, leave... 2015 is sounding like a better year every day ;)
Cool Blue





Joined: 21 Sep 2006
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Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cluster bombs were also used by Hezbolla.
KPK





Joined: 22 Oct 2006
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Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool Blue wrote:
Cluster bombs were also used by Hezbolla.


Really? Isn't it an American weapon?

New guns can be tracked as soon as they leave the manufacturer. Older weapons can be registered by owners albeit I doubt everyone will comply. Again, despite the flaws with the ideas presented, it is the appearance of doing these initiatives which will be beneficial and help build on support.
Cool Blue





Joined: 21 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, some lefty human rights group announced last weekend that they'd found that Hezbolla had also used cluster bombs.
Mac





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
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votes: 35
Location: John Baird's riding...

PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 11:35 pm    Post subject: Re: How to win back Quebec Reply with quote

KPK wrote:
1) Ban semiautomatic weapons and have more stringent screening of gun owners instead of having a form asking perspective owners whether they are crazy.


I'm sorry but banning semiautomatic weapons means only criminals will have them. Please stop blaming guns (which are inanimate) for the crimes committed by the people who wield them.

If you want to make a real difference, how about making licencing regulations realistic instead of stupid. Forget the expensive runaround routine. A form which asks for self-assessment is stupid so why not insist on an objective mental assessment from a competent professional?

KPK wrote:
2) Extend the land mines treaty to include cluster bombs (which the Israelis used in Lebanon) . Any unexploded ordinance look like toys to children. It is appalling that these weapons were used at all during the conflict in Lebanon.


Okay... let's try this again slowly... Ban cluster bombs and the only ones who will have them will be...?? Yes, cluster bombs are warfare made ugly, much like land mines, but reality is the technology exists and desperate people will make them so the prohibition would be meaningless.

Even when Hezbollah aren't using cluster bombs, they were loading their warheads with ballbearings and other projectiles to inflict the maximum casualties possible. Nice folks. Let's send Taliban Jack to talk to them.

KPK wrote:
3) We all know what a waste of money a domestic gun registry is from a cost/benefit perspective. Instead start an initiative to create an INTERNATIONALWeapons registry so all weapons can be tracked. Police would then be able to identify the sources of illegally smuggled weapons. It can also be used to find out where terrorists and militiias in armed conflicts are getting their weapons. No gun owners could complain because it would be an international effort. Even if this initiative fails, the Tories can say they tried and would be given full marks for the attempt.


If a domestic gun registry was a miserable failure, how do you suppose increasing the scale of the stupidity will improve it?

Three strikes- you're out!!

The best and likely only way to address Quebec is to redress the power and fiscal imbalance. The Feds spent too many years interfering in areas where they have no jurisdiction whatsoever. A strong central government does not have to mean a strong central nanny state.

If the Feds would stop trying to control every aspect of every citizen's lives, we'd all be much happier, including Quebec. If the Feds would stop pi$$ing away billion$ of taxpayer dollar$ on useless programs, especially those which infringe on provincial authority, the Federal government wouldn't have to tax Canadians so highly. Provinces could set their own priorities and their own taxation rates... Quebec would be more independent and empowered (so would the rest of the provinces) and they'd be voting for whoever "fixed" the problem.... and the Bloc since they would declare they'd provoked the changes and they were the saviours of Quebec. :roll:

-Mac
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am getting tired by this Quebec sovereignty thing. It is pathetic, if u will
KPK





Joined: 22 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The domestic gun registry is a failure BECAUSE police right now don't have the ability to track illegally smuggled weapons from the States. If they did they would at least know where the supply came from and how it fell into the hands of criminals. It also allows for closer cooperation between police forces on gun crime issues.
biggie





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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KPK wrote:
The domestic gun registry is a failure BECAUSE police right now don't have the ability to track illegally smuggled weapons from the States. If they did they would at least know where the supply came from and how it fell into the hands of criminals. It also allows for closer cooperation between police forces on gun crime issues.


Only real idiots or people who are planning on killing themselves after would register a gun then use it to kill - and those people would do it with or without that registered weapon. Should we ban fast cars because someone could be killed? We all know that car accidents kill more people than guns do.. Shouldn't we be putting drivers through psychological testing? to see if they are capable of driving properly?

the gun registry is a failure because its laden with red tape and bureacratic bull#&*%.
Mac





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 5500
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votes: 35
Location: John Baird's riding...

PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

biggie rection wrote:
the gun registry is a failure because its laden with red tape and bureacratic bull#&*%.


I don't mean to hijack the thread but the gun registry is one of my pet peeves.

The flaws in the firearm registry were evident from the beginning but the Liberals used their majority to push it through regardless. Simply put, criminals do not register their guns so any so-called "benefit" from registration is dubious at best. When this was pointed out in the Commons during the short debate which the Liberals allowed, the stock answer was registering guns would force legitimate gun owners to be more responsible with storing and transporting their firearms. In other words, it was yet another Liberal attempt to legislate responsibility and to force their beliefs on others.

The bitter reality is the long gun registry was crafted for the purpose of harassing innocent citizens by making gun ownership expensive and difficult. So much so that many citizens voluntarily surrendered their firearms to police as part of the highly advertized amnesties. Thousands, if not millions, of firearms were handed over to police and eventually destroyed. I wonder how many criminals turned in their guns voluntarily?

The Liberals hate guns for the same reason all socialists hate guns. Gun owners can defend themselves and therefore don't need the government to do so. Socialists want everyone to feel helpless and vulnerable so citizens depend on the government for everything. Socialists love the herd mentality; unthinking, blindly following and dependant on their leaders for everything... and so many people are happy to follow...

-Mac
biggie





Joined: 06 Sep 2006
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Location: Ottawa, Ontario

PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mac wrote:
The Liberals hate guns for the same reason all socialists hate guns. Gun owners can defend themselves and therefore don't need the government to do so. Socialists want everyone to feel helpless and vulnerable so citizens depend on the government for everything. Socialists love the herd mentality; unthinking, blindly following and dependant on their leaders for everything... and so many people are happy to follow...
-Mac


Nicely said... couldn't agree more.. Quebec being a prime example of this - hence the power of Unions in the Nation of Quebec. lol
Bleatmop





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KPK wrote:
The domestic gun registry is a failure BECAUSE police right now don't have the ability to track illegally smuggled weapons from the States. If they did they would at least know where the supply came from and how it fell into the hands of criminals. It also allows for closer cooperation between police forces on gun crime issues.


1. The police don't need a gun registry to track illegally smuggled weapons from the States. They just need to start an investigation. A Legal Gun Registry does nothing to help with this.

2. No-one is suggesting scrapping any legislation about cooperation between police forces on gun crime issues. I think just about everyone on this forum would be for better cooperation between police service on not only gun crime issues, but all crime issues in general.

3. The gun registry is a failure as crime prevention because a gun registry does absolutely nothing to stop criminal obtaining illegal guns and using them for illicit purposes. Itís also a failure simply as a way to track legal guns because its massively expensive, creates criminals out of ordinary hard working Canadians who can't work their way through the mounds of bureaucratic red tape BS.
.
Evilgenius





Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Posts: 62
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Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

(sigh)

To get back to the topic of this thread, why exactly would we want to win Quebec back? How about them proving to the rest of us that they deserve to stay in Canada?
Mac





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 5500
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votes: 35
Location: John Baird's riding...

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One could easily make the same kind of statements about any part of Canada. For example:

Alberta has some howling bigot social conservatives who make rednecks look progressive so when Alberta starts talking about western alienation, let's tell 'em to go!

Newfoundland was the last to join Confederation and should be the first to leave because they're all perpetually unemployed and they vote Liberal (:shock:) so let's get rid of 'em!!

Toronto is rife with progressives & communists so draw a line around it and build a fence!!

I lived in Quebec for about a year and the vast majority of the people I met were quintessential Canadians. They make noise because the Liberals since Trudeau have been pushing federal noses into provincial jurisdiction on so many levels, it's outrageous. Quebec is blazing a path that the rest of the provinces should be following in demanding that Ottawa stop usurping their powers and back off.

-Mac
Evilgenius





Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Posts: 62
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Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Understood, but I don't see any other province electing federal MPs for the sole purpose of blackmailing their fellow citizens, with the constant threat of separation. This is like a spouse constantly threatening to leave unless he/she keeps getting more of this or that. At some point, you have to say "fine, if you want to go, then go". Otherwise, be prepared to be blackmailed forever.

I have to say, though, that Danny Williams of Newfoundland is coming close to the same situation, with his constant bickering for more money from Ottawa. This is what you get when paying people to stay Canadian, becomes an established principle of the federal government of Canada. Everyone else is also going to want the same thing.
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How to win back Quebec

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