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Bugs





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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here he comes to save the day ...
================================================
Meng Wanzhou: Trump could intervene in case of Huawei executive
12 December 2018

Donald Trump says he could intervene in the case of Huawei executive Meng Wanzhou if it helps to avoid a further decline in US relations with China.

"Whatever's good for this country, I would do," the US president said.

Ms Meng, the chief financial officer of the Chinese telecoms giant, was granted bail on Tuesday by a Canadian court.

She was arrested on 1 December and could be extradited to the US to face fraud charges linked to the alleged violation of sanctions on Iran.

Ms Meng, 46, denies any wrongdoing and has said she will contest the allegations.

She is the daughter of Huawei's founder and her detention, which comes amid an increasingly acrimonious trade dispute between Washington and Beijing, has angered China and soured its relations with both Canada and the US.

In an interview with Reuters news agency on Tuesday, Mr Trump said he would intervene in the US Justice Department's case against Ms Meng if it would serve national security interests or help achieve a trade deal with China.

"If I think it's good for what will be certainly the largest trade deal ever made - which is a very important thing - what's good for national security, I would certainly intervene if I thought it was necessary," he said.

What happened in the courtroom?
Justice William Ehrcke in Vancouver set bail for Ms Meng at C$10m (£6m; $7.4m).

Of that, C$7m must be provided in cash with C$3m in collateral.

The judge said that she would be under surveillance 24 hours a day and must wear an electronic ankle tag. She will be unable to go out between 2300 and 0600 and must surrender all passports and travel documents.

In the three-day bail hearing in Vancouver, Ms Meng's lawyers sought to provide guarantees that she would not pose a flight risk if released. The application was opposed by Canadian prosecutors.

US prosecutors say Ms Meng used a Huawei subsidiary called Skycom to evade sanctions on Iran between 2009 and 2014. They allege she had publicly misrepresented Skycom as being a separate company from Huawei. It is also alleged she deceived banks about the true relationship between the two companies.

Applause broke out in the courtroom when Justice Ehrcke granted bail. Ms Meng cried and hugged her lawyers.

The judge ordered her to reappear in court on 6 February.

After the ruling, Huawei issued a statement, saying: "We have every confidence that the Canadian and US legal systems will reach a just conclusion."

How has China reacted to Ms Meng's arrest?
China, which insists that Ms Meng has not violated any laws, had threatened severe consequences unless Canada released the Huawei executive.

Vice Foreign Minister Le Yucheng earlier summoned both the US and Canadian ambassadors and lodged a "strong protest" urging her release.

The ministry described Ms Meng's arrest as "extremely nasty".

Ms Meng is chief financial officer of Huawei, the world's second-biggest smartphone maker
Separately on Tuesday, it emerged that a Canadian former diplomat had been detained in China.

Michael Kovrig's current employer, the International Crisis Group, said it was working for his prompt release. There has been no official word from China about his whereabouts.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said Canada was in direct contact with Chinese authorities concerning the case.

Life of Huawei's high-flying heiress
Mr Kovrig previously worked as a diplomat in Beijing, Hong Kong and at the UN in New York.

Canadian officials said there was no "explicit indication" of any link between Mr Kovrig's reported detention and the arrest of Ms Meng.

Who is Meng Wanzhou?
Meng Wanzhou joined Huawei as early as 1993, when she began a career at her father's company as a receptionist.

After she graduated with a master's degree in accountancy from the Huazhong University of Science and Technology in 1999, she joined the finance department of Huawei.

She became the company's chief finance officer in 2011 and was promoted to vice-chair a few months before her arrest.

Ms Meng's links to her father, Ren Zhengfei, were not public knowledge until a few years ago.

In a practice highly unusual in Chinese tradition, she adopted her family name not from her father but her mother, Meng Jun, who was Mr Ren's first wife.
================================================
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46533971
Toronto Centre





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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
This has gone past being funny. This is the point ... there is a treaty, but the terms of that treaty are not going to require Canada to take someone into custody and turn them over to the water-boarders without them justifying the charges, and if that act is not illegal in Canada, then no extraditio.

I dont think anyone finds it funny. Meng sure doesn't.

The terms of the treaty means that Canada has to arrest her . There is no debate on this issue.

""If the application from the requesting state is in order, then Canada is legally obliged to arrest her," said Rob Currie, a Dalhousie law professor who focuses extensively on extradition law.

"Most extraditions are not terribly contentious. It so happens that this one is and has massive international political dimensions to it."
Meng, the chief financial officer for the Chinese telecom giant Huawei, was arrested Dec.1 in Vancouver for extradition to the United States to face fraud charges. U.S. authorities allege she used a Huawei subsidiary to do business in Iran in violation of U.S. sanctions and lied to bankers about the corporation's ties with the subsidiary.

Under the terms of the extradition treaty, the U.S. could request Meng's arrest in Canada if she was wanted in connection with conduct considered criminal in both Canada and the United States, and if the offence carries a jail sentence of a year or more. Once that threshold is met, the treaty compels Canada to act.

"The appropriate authorities took the decisions in this case without any political involvement or interference ... we were advised by them with a few days' notice that this was in the works," Prime Minister Justin Trudeau told reporters in Montreal Thursday.

The U.S. has to make a formal extradition request within 60 days of Meng's arrest and send the supporting documents to the International Assistance Group, the specialized branch within the Department of Justice that handles extradition.

Within 30 days of receiving those documents, the IAG would advise Justice Minister Jody Wilson-Raybould on whether a formal extradition hearing would be justified.

Under the treaty with the U.S., Canada cannot arbitrarily refuse to issue an authority to proceed. But once the formal extradition is made, Wilson-Raybould can exercise ministerial discretion.

Canada's extradition laws give Ottawa the power to reject requests that it considers oppressive or politically motivated, a back door known as the "political offence exception." For example, extradition requests that seek to prosecute people for their race, religion, sexuality or political opinions would be out of order."
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/meng-huawei-extradition-1.4937146


I do hope that clears any confusion you seem to have.



Quote:

In this case, there are so many ways of raising an objection that it isn't even funny. Put it this way -- anyone who thought there was no case against Michael Bryant should definitely see that there's no case against Meng.

Oh please, get off the stuck on stupid spiel you have.
Quote:

If our people were worried the Californians would execute someone who was capturing, kidnapping, raping, murdering, and then eating young women ... surely they'd smell the political nature of this, and bow out, leaving it for America's new best friend, Mexico, to accommodate the Americans.

The US asked us, persuant to the agreement, we have no choice. YOu may not like it, I grant you, but we had no choice (barring Ministerial discretion)
Quote:

Now China is looking for Canadians in China to lock up in revenge. You say, so what? ... happens all the time, just collateral damage. I say Can you imagine anthing worse that being locked up in a Chinese prison? Trudeau embarrasses us once again

Sure!

Being locked up in Thailand or particularly Venezuela .

Trudeau didnt do anything to embarass us. He as PM is informed but he also knows we are duty bound by the agreement.
I dont understand why you keep tripping over yourself on this. But ok.
Quote:

So, we don't agree. OK, then, who do you think is a worse 'Prime Minister than Justin?

Lots. Is there a point to this ? Nope...so moving on....
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Quote:

Let me respond here to your second post, giving me a reading course. Look, there is a treaty. It doesn't require anything. The American government can't extradite a guy to a place where courts are a joke. (Well, OK, worse than ours that way.) They have to protect their own citizens' civil rights. And Canada would demand the same terms. In Meng's case, they could certainly refuse to treat her this way.

You didnt read enough then.
Go back up and read the expert opinion. And really focus this time. You will learn we HAVE to , and we did for reasons spelled out numerous times for you.
Quote:

What you present is essentially a prosecutors argument. It isn't the procedure. In fact it would be fascinating to know when embargo running became a crime. Fraud? It just stinks of fakery to me. She was released on $10 million bail. For doing her job.

Her job then detailed her to lie, avoid the US, provide fake docs to show the banks, and so on and so on.

You are a funny little man about this.

Please learn, your thoughts are becoming a farce of epic proportions .

You couldnt be more wrong on this .
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another day, another extradition.

"B.C. court upholds extradition of pair accused of 'honour killing' in India

VANCOUVER - A court has upheld the extradition of two British Columbia residents accused of hiring assailants to murder their relative in India because she married a poor rickshaw driver.

The B.C. Court of Appeal has denied Malkit Kaur Sidhu and Surjit Singh Badesha's request for a stay of proceedings and a judicial review.

Indian authorities allege the pair were involved in the so-called "honour killing" of Sidhu's daughter and Badesha's niece, Jaswinder Kaur Sidhu, in 2000.


An RCMP operation to extradite the two was halted in Toronto as they were boarding a Delhi-bound plane in September 2017 when their lawyers filed applications for judicial review.

Sidhu and Badesha's application argued they weren't given the chance to review the federal justice minister's decisions to extradite them and they were denied access to counsel.

The appeal court says the justice minister's actions did amount to an abuse of process but it does not warrant a stay of proceedings in this case."

Just an FYI that this shit occurs on is seemingly weekly basis.
Bugs





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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Goofy keeps making the same point. I would wonder if he thinks the detaining of Canadians in China is equally "legal"? Because it is, it it means only that the paperwork is done.

If it's all locked up by treaties, why is there a judicial process? And if there is a judicial proceeding, there must be some discretion. Why wouldn't the people who run the judges have a say? (The argument that the Canadian judiciary are 'independent' won't survive a minute of examination. They're a pretty sad lot.)
=================================================

China Arrests a 2nd Canadian, Escalating Diplomatic Feud

The Canadian Embassy in Beijing on Wednesday. Canada’s foreign minister revealed the new case a day after China said that a former Canadian diplomat detained in Beijing had been employed by an organization that was “not registered in China legally.”

By Steven Lee Myers and Dan Bilefsky
Dec. 12, 2018

19
阅读简体中文版閱讀繁體中文版
BEIJING — China intensified its punitive campaign against Canada over the arrest of a top Chinese technology executive by arresting a second Canadian working here and announcing on Thursday that both men faced charges of undermining China’s national security.

China’s foreign ministry confirmed the second arrest, a day after suggesting that the first involved a comparatively mild administrative matter involving the registration of a nongovernmental organization.

Accusing the two men of national security crimes — as yet unspecified — signaled a serious escalation of the diplomatic crisis that began when Canada detained Meng Wanzhou, the chief financial officer of Huawei, at the request of American prosecutors on charges of bank fraud related to violating sanctions against trade with Iran.

The second case involves Michael Spavor, a writer and entrepreneur who operates a cultural organization that promotes trips into North Korea. [....]
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/12/world/asia/michael-spavor-canadian-detained-china.html?emc=edit_nn_p_20181213&nl=morning-briefing&nlid=57581535&section=topNews&te=1
=================================================

So it's escalating. Getting worse. Don't worry, Crystia Freeland is on the job, telling the Chinese they don't treat women right ....
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
Goofy keeps making the same point.

Thank you for noticing.....and not comprehending. SOS for ever!
Quote:

I would wonder if he thinks the detaining of Canadians in China is equally "legal"? Because it is, it it means only that the paperwork is done.

We both know this is tit for tat and will be reconciled shortly. That said, it probably is legal according to Chinese law.
And with that said, we understand Chinese law from the Communist viewpoint.
Quote:

If it's all locked up by treaties, why is there a judicial process?

Answered numerous times in numerous posts.

Play stupid at your own peril. You are good at that.
Quote:
And if there is a judicial proceeding, there must be some discretion. Why wouldn't the people who run the judges have a say?

Answered numerous times in numerous posts.

Play stupid at your own peril. You are good at that.
=================================================


Quote:

So it's escalating. Getting worse. Don't worry, Crystia Freeland is on the job, telling the Chinese they don't treat women right ....

She is, thankfully, but not saying a thing about Women since for the most part Chinese women have rights, albeit under Chinese rule.


Is there a point you 'd like to make or just venting incoherently ?
SOS....
Bugs





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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Toronto Centre"]
Bugs wrote:

Quote:

I would wonder if he thinks the detaining of Canadians in China is equally "legal"? Because it is, it it means only that the paperwork is done.

We both know this is tit for tat and will be reconciled shortly. That said, it probably is legal according to Chinese law.
And with that said, we understand Chinese law from the Communist viewpoint.
Quote:

If it's all locked up by treaties, why is there a judicial process?

Answered numerous times in numerous posts.


The asshole said that Canada has no choice -- our border service is run from Washington, and poor little wimpy Justin can't be blamed for anything!

TC says that the Chinese arrests are "tit-for-tat" -- and I am saying they are "tat-for-tit". Certainly the Meng arrest is extraterritorial, and and equally a political arrest. All TC is doing with his foolish prattling is defending the indefensible.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:

The asshole said that Canada has no choice -- our border service is run from Washington, and poor little wimpy Justin can't be blamed for anything!


Nope. I see you are stuck on stupid and didnt read the links.

Anyhow, lets try this again and I shall go slower for the dolts ...er dolt who cannot comprehend.

So you see, we signed onto an extradition treaty. It means , more of less, that should another signatory make a request persuant to the agreement , and all seems on paper to be legit, then we execute a warrant (after getting one from other country) and arrest that person.

Then , more or less, we review that warrant received and make a call on the legitimacy of same.
If for any reason the warrant is for political reasons or for crimes not a crime in this country then we have the ability (discretion) to not honour it.
After that there is another review (30 days) to make any objections and so on.

So there ya go ! I have no doubt you will clog this thread with stupidity shortly bu they, you do bugs !
Quote:

TC says that the Chinese arrests are "tit-for-tat" -- and I am saying they are "tat-for-tit". Certainly the Meng arrest is extraterritorial, and and equally a political arrest. All TC is doing with his foolish prattling is defending the indefensible.


See , this is completely idiotic, congrats.

I am defending a thing, merely that we and other countries need these things in order to move people who have done wrong to others.

If we didnt have it, Ng would be living large in Alberta. CDN pedophiles would be iving large in Thailand.

We do you want to provide a known murderer/pedophiles a free pass? Are you one of those weasally assholes who provide shelter to bad people? Hey maybe they can go live with you and your band of twats (as you put it) ?

I am actually surprised you support pedo's.

Tsk tsk.


SOS :)
Bugs





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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And what you leave out is that the world is shocked by an everyday event, and that nobody thinks this is fraud -- except the dim.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
And what you leave out is that the world is shocked by an everyday event, and that nobody thinks this is fraud -- except the dim.

No one is shocked. Nobody, save for perhaps the mans family.

But you arent. Nope.


This explains it quite well I suspect., It talks of Chinese culture and why they did what they did. It is all for the domestic optics and nothing to do with us.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/what-china-hopes-to-get-by-detaining-canadians/ar-BBQUQ44?li=AAggXBV

....
The detention of Michael Kovrig, an ex diplomat who now works for the International Crisis Group, and Michael Spavor, a Canadian best known for becoming an emissary to North Korea, is theatre for a domestic audience—and such theatre is important in China.

Consider an incident in 2001, when China took a different tact. A U.S.-Chinese military plane collision ended up with a dead Chinese pilot and China’s detention of the American air crew. Compared to today, China then took a relatively moderate approach, releasing the crew after the United States issued an intentionally ambiguous statement that both sides could interpret differently to save face.

READ MORE: For once, Canada didn’t cave in to Huawei

But the United States took a harsher tone soon afterward, and that “made Chinese leaders’ restrained response look weak in the eyes of the Chinese people,” according to the Journal of Chinese Political Science. “Many Chinese were disappointed, and privately criticized the Chinese leadership. There were rumors that the military was dissatisfied too.”
Bugs





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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Hong Kong stock exchange fell 2.5% on the news that Meng was arrested. Stock markets around the world followed suit.

TC sez it was entirely normal. Trust him, he wouldn't lie. He doesn't have any evidence of anything. He talks as if he knows China's motives. He doesn't.

The worst (for me) is his callow disregard for those Canadians who've been busted in China. They, too, have committed a "crime" -- as criminal as anything Meng has done. But TC has his priorities, attempting to save Justin and his gnome, Crystia Freeland from the ridicule and damnation they so richly deserve.

The clincher -- the Canadian Courts issued a publishing ban. it's because they're doing something that can't bear public examination. Usually it's to hide judicial and/or police incompetence and the like. Not in this case. We do our dirt in secret trials!
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
The Hong Kong stock exchange fell 2.5% on the news that Meng was arrested. Stock markets around the world followed suit.

Of course they did.

Huawei was being accused of criminal activity/security concerns thus the market gets worried.
Really simple market knowledge.

You were surprised?
Quote:

TC sez it was entirely normal. Trust him, he wouldn't lie. He doesn't have any evidence of anything.


Gave you plenty of evidence and here you are spouting nonsense with seemingly no knowledge.
You were given knowledge but decided to remain a dumbass.

Want the evidence again? No? Oh I see , better to remain stupid and not informed.

But for the record, your entire case has rested on 'feels' which of course no gives a rats ass about, They just read you and laugh.
Quote:

He talks as if he knows China's motives. He doesn't.

No No, that was Macleans article suggesting China's motives. I just concur.
Quote:

The worst (for me)
...is your stupidity :)

Quote:

is his callow disregard for those Canadians who've been busted in China.

Not at all. It sucks, but they are being treated with kid gloves and are not in a chinese prison.
Dont you worry your pretty little ignorant head. They will be out soon.
Want some milk or a soother?
Quote:

They, too, have committed a "crime" -- as criminal as anything Meng has done.

Not really known exactly what they have done, Communism and all being the legal system.
But we know the charges on the lying Meng and her avoidance of USA....and her 7 passports, her aliases, her last name.....all things you wont learn about.
Quote:

But TC has his priorities, attempting to save Justin and his gnome, Crystia Freeland from the ridicule and damnation they so richly deserve.

Except they are not getting any.

Ya know, other than pathetic attempts by those who are too stupid to learn.

Come on dummy...go read.

And ladies and gentlemen, your laugh for the day. Read on and see just how stupid some people...naw...how bugs is.
Really stupid .

Quote:

The clincher -- the Canadian Courts issued a publishing ban.


Meng requested the publication ban and the court granted her wish. LOL! LOL! LOL!

China says her detention is possibly a rights abuse.

Ms Meng has sought a publication ban on the details of the arrest, which has been granted by the courts.

Huawei said it was "not aware of any wrongdoing by Ms Meng".

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-46465768
Quote:

it's because they're doing something that can't bear public examination. Usually it's to hide judicial and/or police incompetence and the like. Not in this case. We do our dirt in secret trials!

Oh goody, more dumbass pontifications from the idiot.



Hey bugs, this isnt funny anymore. I might get charged with abuse of the disabled. Your mind is sadly not up to the task of reading or understanding.

Got to bed, or something since you really are an ignoramous mouthing off with not even a half wits semblance of smarts.

A 5 yr old would understand this better than you.

Bye bye buttercup, go get the warm milk.


Didja read where Meng herself asked for the ban? Oh? Yup.....<snicker>....so funny
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

,
Bugs





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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

China levels national security accusations against two detained Canadians
By TONDA MACCHARLESOttawa Bureau
Thu., Dec. 13, 2018

OTTAWA —In the wake of Canada’s arrest of Meng Wanzhou, a high-profile Chinese business executive wanted by the U.S, China’s foreign ministry says it has detained two Canadians “on suspicion of engaging in activities that harm China’s state security.”

Both men were arrested two days after China threatened Canada with “grave consequences” if Meng — the chief financial officer of Huawei Technologies Inc. who is sought by the U.S. on allegations of fraud and bypassing Iran sanctions — was not immediately released, but a day before she made bail.

The turn of events prompted Conservative Leader Andrew Scheer to demand Prime Minister Justin Trudeau intervene with Chinese President Xi Jinping on behalf of the Canadians detained in China.

Without discussing whether the arrests were retaliatory in nature, a Chinese government spokesman, Lu Chang, repeated China’s demand Thursday from Beijing. [....]
https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2018/12/13/china-levels-national-security-accusations-against-two-detained-canadians.html
=================================================

Trudeau could have baulked. TC overstates everything, but the fact it -- nobody would have had less respect for Justin Trudeau if he had defended Canada. I do not believe he had no opportunity -- he's just too stupid to see ahead, even though the outcome should have been obvious.

This isn't over. It has hardly begun. It's described as being between a rock and a hard place, how that he's made his inexplicable decision.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:

Trudeau could have baulked. TC overstates everything, but the fact it -- nobody would have had less respect for Justin Trudeau if he had defended Canada.

Riiiiight.

And then there you would be spouting nonsense that Trudeau is sticking it to the US and Trump.
LOL! You are so transparent.

Quote:


This isn't over. It has hardly begun. It's described as being between a rock and a hard place, how that he's made his inexplicable decision.

He didnt make the decision. Silly....go read

It will be over soon. Your fake concern is noted and laughed off.
Bugs





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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a video that is done by a Greek and a Cypriot that is good because they see world affairs from outside of both the USA and the EU points of view.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lE7phmcC5Tg

They discuss their view of Canada in the whole video but gets more focussed on what TC and I have been arguing .. well, I've been arguing, and he's been raging ... after the 8 minute mark. They think Canada is going to see rising retaliations from China.

The last 4 minutes or so discuss what is happening to Canada's place in the world. Canada, after all, has bungled itself into having its ass kicked by the two biggest economices in the world, plus Saudi Arabia ... and Crystia would probably have done the same thing to Japan if she'd had the chance.

Do yourself a favour and watch the whole video.
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The Huawei Arrest & what it means

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