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Toronto Centre





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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought there were differences between criminal code violations and travelling while being Chinese -- well, the daughter of a Chinese industrialist engaged in business with Iran. We are looking for extradition requests for non-criminal matters. The fitures you provide are only the gross figures. They could all be requests for criminal extraditions (the only kind there are, no?).

Is fraud a crime ? Therin lies your answer.
Quote:

You have really upped your game. The Sherritt case is interesting because if the USA had an official trade embargo on Cuba, it isn't evident.

Ive only know about is since well.....forever. Like when I was a young guy.

Honestly I dont believe you dont know about the trade embargo. It is and has been as evident as the nose on your face.

Americans cannot , to this day, fly into Cuba from the US. There is however a softening on that. Plenty of Yanks do go, but take a circuitous route and request no stamp in their passport.
Quote:

Cuba was free to trade with Europe and the South American mainland, for example. But still, it is roughly parallel.

Huh...totally irrelevant.


Quote:

It clearly is the US throwing its weight around, justified only by short-of-war measure to create pressure. It's far from routine -- and in the Sherritt case, they simply warned the executives of their liability. They didn't stop them from trading their metals on the world market. In any case, even in that case, American officials seem to be admitting that this is the US acting lawlessly but justifying it by circumstances.

Sure they are. They always do. And they may come to regret this action.

Not sure why you are trying to explain away Sherrit. Huawei stills operate in Canada and around the world .
Quote:

By the way, I also researched 'extradition' and found it is always found in association with crime, trials, concern about habeus corpus, etc. In other words, it's used for criminal cases.

Bless your heart !
So now you know that this is a criminal charge and fits with the extradition family. Wonderful !
Quote:

Having the RCMP participate in a bit of lawless hostage-taking -- taking someone off their plane and into custody for no legal reason?

You could get the reason tattooed on your f***ing face and you still wouldnt see that this was... (A) legal and (B) a criminal charge which fits with extradition.

Your inane "RCMP" and lawless bullshit means nothing since you cannot and will not try to understand the real reasons this was done.

You just like to make things up in bugsworld to satisfy some silly notions about the the laws we operate under.
Quote:

The same coppers that tasered that poor Polish guy until he sizzled like fried bacon probably were the arresting officers.

Hmm...they might not be cops since they were thrown in prison.
Quote:

I hope somebody gets some coverage of the extradition hearing out from behind the curtain of secrecy they have put over their shameful acts.

Already done. Its in the news.
Quote:
This is political hostage-taking. For all we know, the woman was in Vancouver to avoid being on American soil.

No it isnt. LOL!
Of course she was avoiding the US. She knew the US was wanting her and she avoided going in. Not hard to see why.
She also knew she could be arrested here. Took her chances.... she lost.
Quote:

And paid agents of the Canadian state acted as her kidnapper ... it's banana republic stuff. TC probably thinks it's OK because ... Oh, because it's 2018!

Wow!

Project stupidity much ?
Quote:

Beware when you go into an airport -- you lose whatever you thought your rights were as soon as you enter.


Uh oh...sorry to tell you but in certain areas of an airport you DO lose some of your rights and not a damn thing you can do about it....other than not go in.

You didnt know that either ? Well well well......
Bugs





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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If there was an embargo, it was a strange one. Not only could Cuba trade with all of the outside world except the USA, but the US let remittance money be sent to Cuba. Only Skerritt ran afoul of the American ire.

You say Meng has committed fraud. How can Meng be charged with fraud by the Americans? She is a functionary of a Chinese corporation. Surely the correct procedure would be to complain to China.

The real reason is that this is not a standard extradition -- it's an affair of state, which is to say that Meng has become a bargaining chip. And just think! ... we did our part in making that happen!

(An aside: how can our PM not understand that the time to roll over is by going along with Trump's desire for a quick trade deal ... and the time you stand up and say Whoa is when Trump asks you to kidnap a top Chinese corporate executive's daughter? I guess it's one more indication that Justin doesn't know if he's punched or bored.)

I still say that this is a new level of bullying. We are the henchmen on this job for da boss. It's that simple.

How many requests for illegal kidnappings and extraditions are there? This is sort-of like the Saudis and Koshoggi ... except that the Saudi's showed up for the interrogation with a bone saw. All the Americans have is a board and a pail full of water.
Bugs





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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a video that some experts discuss this case. It is 22 minutes long, and is highly critical of the American move. The part where they deal with Canada's role starts at the 4 minute mark, for two or three minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUcDCHzwqzc

It calls Canada a "vassal state" of the US as a result of this event -- and predicts that Canada will be in China's sites from now on. They will make it hurt.

Canada has been pissing off the Chinese, the Russians (over Ukraine) and the Saudis all since Crystia assumed the role of straightening the 'world out about gender relations. The commentators say, in passing, that Meng will face fraud charges

To make it worse, there are other reports that the "deep state" staged this arrest to screw up the "truce" that the two countries came to in their trade war.
Toronto Centre





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Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
If there was an embargo, it was a strange one. Not only could Cuba trade with all of the outside world except the USA, but the US let remittance money be sent to Cuba. Only Skerritt ran afoul of the American ire.

And?
Quote:

You say Meng has committed fraud. How can Meng be charged with fraud by the Americans? She is a functionary of a Chinese corporation. Surely the correct procedure would be to complain to China.

Not at all. She ran afoul of the sanctions imposed . Huawei uses US technology, ergo they must abide the Iran sanctions.
They thought they (she) could get away with it by using a third party which happened to be a Huawei subsidiary. She lied about that and got caught.

Complaining to China would be nice. And utterly fruitless.

Its China.
Quote:


The real reason is that this is not a standard extradition -- it's an affair of state, which is to say that Meng has become a bargaining chip. And just think! ... we did our part in making that happen!


I dont think many would disagree with you. In some part (large part?) this is a State affair and the US found an angle they could use to further their own agenda. A shot across the bow as it were.
Quote:

(An aside: how can our PM not understand that the time to roll over is by going along with Trump's desire for a quick trade deal ... and the time you stand up and say Whoa is when Trump asks you to kidnap a top Chinese corporate executive's daughter? I guess it's one more indication that Justin doesn't know if he's punched or bored.)

Go ahead and ignore at your own peril that the PM could not stop this . Interference perhaps, but not stop it.
Quote:

I still say that this is a new level of bullying. We are the henchmen on this job for da boss. It's that simple.

The bullying is on the US ' head. Not ours. Once presented with the facts as laid out by the IAG we have to act.
Quote:

How many requests for illegal kidnappings and extraditions are there? .

When was there ever an illegal....wait that would be a redundant phrase.

When was there ever a kidnapping ?
Bugs





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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By the way -- Meng was changing planes in Vancouver to complete a trip to Mexico. Surely the more direct route would be via Los Angeles. It also means they could have had her grabbed in Mexico ... except, maybe, Mexico has higher legal standards.

Where is it established that a Chinese corporate officer is responsible for the acts of a Chinese company operating in Iran? There's a little question of extra-territoriality involved ... which TC seems too thick to appreciate.

That's the kind of thing that companies cancel contracts over. It's not something that normally leads officers to physically grab and frog-marched a woman to the back rooms. OK, if the Canadian version has subdued the Tom Clancy bits, but the Kafka-esque parts are still evident.

How does the US government get to tell the Chinese what they can do with things they own in countries outside their sphere of influence? TC has tried every lame defence he can think of, from the {i]it-happens-all-the-time[/i] to the we-had-to-do-it-because-it's-the-law line, and failed.

This is an event that is shocking people in Europe and China precisely because it is so rare.
Bugs





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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a short video -- from a German group -- reacting to the kidnapping/arrest of Meng of Huawei.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gUlqjSukMg

In another one, the commentator says the arrest was an act of war.

Trudeau was on TV telling the world that Canada has an entirely independent judiciary ... which is something short of the truth ... and which suggests to me that pressure is being put on the judge.

There may be more to it, but the best outcome for everybody would be for the woman to be released. The US has made its point, Canada has identified itself as a vassal state being led by a quisling, and Meng gets to continue her flight to Mexico.

The rest of the world isn't going along with the happens-all-the-time yarn. The Chinese can recognize a gutless worm when they see one. We have to get these losers out of power.
Toronto Centre





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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
By the way -- Meng was changing planes in Vancouver to complete a trip to Mexico. Surely the more direct route would be via Los Angeles. It also means they could have had her grabbed in Mexico ... except, maybe, Mexico has higher legal standards.

Thanks for this... whole lot of nothing. "By the way"....means nothing.

Mexico may well have legal standards, however our legal standards as signatories to the IAG had to move when asked.

What part of this do you have trouble with ?
Quote:

Where is it established that a Chinese corporate officer is responsible for the acts of a Chinese company operating in Iran? There's a little question of extra-territoriality involved ... which TC seems too thick to appreciate.

When a company runs afoul of the sanctions using a US based company..... they do so at their own peril.

Golly gosh Wally....why did she lie about ties to the US firm owned by Huawei ?
Quote:

That's the kind of thing that companies cancel contracts over.

Perhaps. And?
Quote:

How does the US government get to tell the Chinese what they can do with things they own in countries outside their sphere of influence? TC has tried every lame defence he can think of, from the {i]it-happens-all-the-time[/i] to the we-had-to-do-it-because-it's-the-law line, and failed.

Are you really this stupid or ....well yea, you are this stupid.

Ok sonny boy, go read the facts about this case, try (as hard as you might) to understand the IAG and why it exists, and then apply this to Huawei. (who by the way we should fear )
Quote:

This is an event that is shocking people in Europe and China precisely because it is so rare.


No they aren't. You making up shite means..... LOL!


Funny, the Chineses know exactly who ordered this and why this was done. The yanks, however we (CDN) give cover to their outrage since the Chinese are trying to calm the tariffs issue down and not to escalate.

But of course you know that, or should if you did any reading, but its all about the poor woman being arrested in Van city.

My god you are a funny little man.
Bugs





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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TC had difficulty understanding my concern. He mounts his usual display of snark to make it go away? Why am I not relieved? He explained everything after all ... except why is Canada involved? The Chinese are promising us a quick kick in the nuts for this -- or worse. The world's shock is a measure of how rare an event this is. Canada is acting like a vassal state to the dismay of all.

Why did Justin sign off on this? Two possibilies, equally plausible -- (1) it could be some post-agreement sucking up ... or (2) he could have used the opportunity to screw up Trump's triumphant trade truce with China ...

Just pray is isn't the second alternative. Does the country have to be punished for the sins of its leader? Has Justin screwed up so bad that we are on the shit-list of the two biggest economies in the world?
Toronto Centre





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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
TC had difficulty understanding my concern.

No no, you dont have a concern vested in any knowledge. Thus the snark.

You do not understand any of this obviously, you just like parading your stupidity about .

You don't understand we have to arrest as per the agreement. (we may have been able to bung it up ...ie..Oops we missed her at the airport or some such.)

You fail to read up on why she was arrested and how the intertwining of the companies she reps are subject to US sanctions .

Your concerns are nothing, You know nothing about this. Its just your silly little stomp your feet against the sitting government.

Quote:


He mounts his usual display of snark to make it go away? Why am I not relieved?

Snark only comes when I deal with obvious idiots who try to make a point but are so clueless about the issue .

The only relief you can get is to read and try to understand the issue. But nooo....better to look like a moron than try.
Quote:

He explained everything after all ... except why is Canada involved?

Level of stupidity 5- the why is Canada involved was explained in full very early in. That you still fail to grasp the simple facts of why we have to is yours
Quote:

The Chinese are promising us a quick kick in the nuts for this -- or worse.

And still no understanding that it was the US who requested this.

The Chinese know it, the world knows it, all the players know it. But some idiot on the internet keeps yammering away at his keyboard full of vitriol that he does not understand , and wouldnt grasp if the IAG themselves came and told him.

LOL!

Quote:

The world's shock is a measure of how rare an event this is.

Nope. But keep trying.

The world is waking up to the reality the US is now imposing. Thats their concern, as they know we had a requeste to fill out.
Quote:

Why did Justin sign off on this?

He didnt. Again, nice try.

Oh he knew in advance, but he also knew this had to be done as per the IAG and being a part of it.

Hard for you to grasp I know, but sometimes you have to suck it up and do dirty work to ensure the future dirty work others will do on your request....as per IAG guidelines
Quote:
.
Two possibilies, equally plausible --

(1) That I, bugs, have no idea what I am talking about or (2) I could make up shit that some other idiot might believe.
Both of those ^ are equally plausible .

Go learn. You have an incredible capacity for being a dumbass. Congrats.
Bugs





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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Still ... why would Justin OK this? It was a 'request' made under the act. It wasn't an order. Why wouldn't Trudeau take a little time with his experts before putting his name on the dotted line? Why wouldn't he let the matter get snagged up before issuing the order to the RCMP's crack "sizzle squad"? Tallyrand would have. It isn't as if Meng is a criminal, or has some marijuana in her purse.

Oops, sorry would have been so much better.

There is also the issue of the timing. Would Trump want the arrest to go ahead when he has just forced concessions out of China as a price for the truce they wanted? Seems unlikely to me. In that case, Trump will experience this as someone screwing him up.

He will see that Trudeau has been an accomplice in a plot to sabotage that truce.
Toronto Centre





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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
Still ... why would Justin OK this?

Thats just it, he doesn't OK anything. It goes to the Minister from the FA office in the US and it has to be worked on immediately.
Quote:
It was a 'request' made under the act. It wasn't an order. Why wouldn't Trudeau take a little time with his experts before putting his name on the dotted line? Why wouldn't he let the matter get snagged up before issuing the order to the RCMP's crack "sizzle squad"? Tallyrand would have. It isn't as if Meng is a criminal, or has some marijuana in her purse.

Trudeau does not sign off . He knows or is advised, Advisers tell him this is why and we are legally in the clear on this so we will have her picked up.
Again, it is a request insofar as here is the paperwork and the charges and please pick her up.
Requests as it were are made all the time between nations. (not specifically this type) The language is always couched in terms of request as we demanded they do so and so does not work.
Diplomacy. You ask....they do and if not, uh oh.

She is , as far as the requesting nation has deemed her, a criminal . We havent. But they have.
Quote:

Oops, sorry would have been so much better.

Maybe this time.

But what happens when we request the same for something that is vital for Canada?
Oops doesnt cut it.
Quote:

There is also the issue of the timing. Would Trump want the arrest to go ahead when he has just forced concessions out of China as a price for the truce they wanted? Seems unlikely to me. In that case, Trump will experience this as someone screwing him up.

AFAIK, Trump didnt know.

Perhaps it was printed on paper, in which case he does not like to read.
Perhaps it was given orally but he was too busy watching FoxNews to hear.
Perhaps it was in his daily security brief, in which case he doesnt like to read either.
Quote:

He will see that Trudeau has been an accomplice in a plot to sabotage that truce.


No, thats just Infowars bullshit.

Its all you have.
Bugs





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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for the trip through what you imagine the Yes, Minister world of Justin Trudeau. Trudeau himself said he knew, which means it passed over his desk and he OKd it. He could have asked for clarification, along the lines of How do we arrest and hold a Chinese citizen who has committed no crime? He could have asked for a precedent. He could have stalled and said ... Jeez, why you asking us while those tariffs are still in place? He could have said Have Donald contact me.

The world would understand any of those approaches, and call them prudent. Instead, he refuses to take responsibility and pretends he had no choice. Our immigration and police are now taking orders from Washinton.

What shocks the world is that the Canadian PM is such a cringe-inducing weakling.

I don't believe he had a competent advisor that would tell him to take this route.

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Huawei CFO's Husband Offers $11 Million Bail In Cash & Homes
by Tyler Durden
Mon, 12/10/2018 - 16:45

Having adjourned for lunch, the Huawei CFO bail hearing continues to raise eyebrows (among onlookers and the judge).

This morning's biggest headline is that Meng Wanzhou’s husband promised to post bail equal to C$15 million (around $11 million), made up of cash and the equity value in the couple’s homes in Vancouver, in order to gain her release from jail in Canada while she contests possible extradition to the U.S..

As we noted earlier, the value of these homes and cash as bail payment is peanuts compared with her father's estimated wealth of $2 billion (Huawei founder Ren Zhengfei).

In an almost comic exchange, as Bloomberg reports, Meng’s husband, Liu Xiaozong, would post the bail and ensure she complies with the terms of her confinement imposed by the court, David Martin, Meng’s defense lawyer, told Justice William Ehrcke of the British Columbia Supreme Court, reassuring that

“She is a woman of character and dignity,” Martin told the court.

“She would comply with your order.”

Of course she would...

To which the judge asked Martin, somewhat shocked at the suggestion, how Liu could possibly serve as his wife’s “jailer,” particularly if the judge couldn’t order Liu to remain in the country.

Martin said he wasn’t aware of Liu’s immigration status in Canada.

Crown attorney John Gibb-Carsley has argued against granting Meng bail because she’s so wealthy that she will easily be able to pay whatever is required and then flee. Since learning of the investigation into her alleged activities, Meng has avoided the U.S. and other Huawei executives have stopped traveling to the U.S., he added.

Additionally, Martin told the court that Meng would pay for her own security operations "as an added layer of assurance," producing an expert witness who testified that Meng's whereabouts could be confirmed through the use of technology [....]
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-12-10/huawei-cfos-husband-offers-11-million-bail-cash-homes
=================================================

Justin, no doubt, foresaw that she would fight her extradition. Now they're talking about putting her in an ankle bracelet and holding her property as bail.

I wonder if anyone has ever opened Justin's eyes to how Chinese people feel about "losing face"? Because a Chinese top executive wearing an ankle bracelet almost certainly involve a big loss of face.
Toronto Centre





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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
Thank you for the trip through what you imagine the Yes, Minister world of Justin Trudeau. Trudeau himself said he knew, which means it passed over his desk and he OKd it.

Make up anything you want. Make yourself look like a complete and total idiot.

Fine by me.

But Trudeau does not ok it. Its not an "ok" issue. The warrant is sent electronically and is acted upon and the PM is advised.

Quote:


He could have asked for clarification, along the lines of How do we arrest and hold a Chinese citizen who has committed no crime? He could have asked for a precedent. He could have stalled and said ... Jeez, why you asking us while those tariffs are still in place? He could have said Have Donald contact me.


Boy, you are one huge dummy.

In what bizarro world do you live. Facts mean nothing to you. You of course have NO idea what she has done but that she has not committed a crime.

Really? The US doesnt believe you . They think you are an idiot but welcome the infantile obfuscation you try to provide.
Quote:

The world would understand any of those approaches, and call them prudent. Instead, he refuses to take responsibility and pretends he had no choice. Our immigration and police are now taking orders from Washinton.

Awww...so cute, horrible dumb but you are soo cute. Look at you making things up.

Is it bathtime baby?
Quote:

What shocks the world is that the Canadian PM is such a cringe-inducing weakling.

The world according to idiot bugs. Not the real world whereby most are ..."well it is the US who ordered this"
Quote:

I don't believe he had a competent advisor that would tell him to take this route.

Don't believe?

You don't even know whats going on and insist on making yourself look like a complete and total moron !!


I cant imagine how hard life has been for you. Poor man .
Bugs





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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toronto Centre wrote:
Bugs wrote:
Thank you for the trip through what you imagine the Yes, Minister world of Justin Trudeau. Trudeau himself said he knew, which means it passed over his desk and he OKd it.

Make up anything you want. Make yourself look like a complete and total idiot.

Fine by me.

But Trudeau does not ok it. Its not an "ok" issue. The warrant is sent electronically and is acted upon and the PM is advised.


In other words, someone in Washington can have the RCMP's crack sizzle squad do its bidding and no Canadian can say yes or no? I don't believe you.

I remember when two guys from California -- who had captured young girls and held them in an underground cell where they took their pleasure with the girls ... in the end, there was cannibalism involved ... One of these fine young Californians were apprehended in Alberta somewhere. And Canadian authorities refused to hand him over because he might get the death penalty!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Ng

So I don't believe your version. You are making it up, TC, and I can't imagine why. Surely, any nation that would stand up for the rights of a cannibal would stand up to protect a woman who has committed no crime on American 'or Canadian soil. If they were consistent ...

Perhaps Justin thought he could get even with Trump with this .... that's the scary thought.
Bugs





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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ex-Canadian diplomat Michael Kovrig reportedly detained in China
CNN News

6:50 am
December 11, 2018

A Canadian employee of the International Crisis Group has reportedly been detained in China, the nonprofit organization said Tuesday.

Michael Kovrig, a former Canadian diplomat who is the organization’s northeast Asia senior adviser, has been working with the group since February 2017, a statement said.

“We are doing everything possible to secure additional information on Michael’s whereabouts as well as his prompt and safe release,” the International Crisis Group’s statement said.

The Chinese government hasn’t commented on Kovrig or his possible whereabouts. CNN has reached out to the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs for comment. [....]
https://kxlh.com/cnn-asia-pacific/2018/12/11/ex-canadian-diplomat-michael-kovrig-reportedly-detained-in-china/
==================================================

Mr Kovrig will, no doubt, be comforted by the thought that Justin Trudeau is concerned, and cares a lot. Didja know that China only executes a prisoner when their body parts have been sold, and the execution isn't so much a ceremony as a bit of surgery? Eyes, liver, kidneys are particularly valuable on the body parts market.
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The Huawei Arrest & what it means

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