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Bugs





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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 1:32 pm    Post subject: Saudi Arabia breaks ties with Canada over Human Rights Reply with quote

Quote:
As Saudi-Canada feud escalates, here’s how axing armoured vehicle deal could hurt Trudeau in 2019
By Amanda Connolly National Online Journalist Global News

The Saudi Arabian government is expelling Canada's ambassador and freezing all trade and investment transactions with Ottawa after Canada criticized the arrest of women's rights and other civil society activists in the Arab Kingdom. Mercedes Stephenson reports the question on the highly unusual move and language by the Saudis.

The future of one of Canada’s largest arms deals — and whether axing it could hurt Liberal prospects in 2019 — is fast becoming a major question after Saudi Arabia reacted to criticism of its treatment of female activists by ejecting the Canadian ambassador Sunday night and ordering a freeze on all new trade.

On Monday morning, the Middle Eastern kingdom also escalated the feud by suspending scholarships for the roughly 16,000 Saudi students studying in Canada.

Now, the question remains of what will happen to a highly controversial deal brokered by the former Conservative government and upheld by Prime Minister Justin Trudeau (former foreign affairs minister Stephane Dion signed the export permits) to let a Canadian company sell $15 billion worth of light armoured vehicles to the repressive region.

“At this point, I’m really reluctant to come to any particular point,” said Thomas Juneau, an assistant professor at the University of Ottawa who specializes in Middle East relations with Canada, noting the next 12 to 24 hours will be critical to understanding how far this feud might go.

“This is Saudi Arabia. They’ve been acting very unpredictably and aggressively.”

It all began around 7 PM Sunday night when news broke that Saudi Arabia had ordered the Canadian ambassador to leave and would recall its own ambassador from Ottawa, in response to statements made last week by Canada that criticized the kingdom’s arrest and detention of women’s rights activists.

One of those activists, Samar Badawi, is the sister of jailed dissident blogger Raif Badawi, whose wife is a Canadian citizen and lives in Quebec.

Saudi Arabia accused Canada of interfering in its internal affairs and also said all “new business and investment” would be frozen as a result.

That reference to “new” trade is what is raising questions about the future of the arms deal.

Inked in 2014, the deal allowed General Dynamics Land Systems Canada (GDLS) to provide Saudi Arabia with more than 1,000 armoured vehicles, but the details of exactly what they will be used for have remained secret because of a confidentiality provision in the contract.

However, CBC News reported earlier this year that the deal will not just include the “trucks” and “jeeps” that both Harper and Trudeau have described.

Instead, it will also see the kingdom provided with hundreds of “heavy assault,” “anti-tank” and “direct fire” vehicles.

So far, the government has resisted repeated calls for it to cancel the arms deal, suggesting doing so could hurt faith in Canadian business.

But could the Saudis cancel the deal themselves?

“Saudi Arabia can get the LAVs from elsewhere,” said Juneau, noting any costs associated with cancelling the deal would likely be easily absorbed.

“The cost for Saudi Arabia is manageable. If you only look at the numbers, this is a bigger loss for Canada.”

Could losing the deal hurt Liberals in 2019?
Electoral chances may also be a key consideration for the governing Liberals in how they respond.

Roughly 3,000 jobs and millions of hours’ worth of manufacturing would be at stake if the deal were axed by either side.

About 2,200 of those jobs are in London, Ont.

The actual plant is location in the riding of London-Fanshawe, which has been held by NDP MP Irene Mathyssen since 2006.

The region was hard hit by the collapse of manufacturing during the Great Recession — both the Ford and Caterpillar plants closed — and during the last election, few officials were wiling to speak out against the deal when asked.

When the deal was struck, the Conservatives had held three of the four London-area ridings, excluding London-Fanshawe.

But in the 2015 election, the Liberals flipped two of those seats: London North-Centre and London West.

If thousands of those promised jobs disappear from the deal being axed, that could prove a political challenge for the Liberals in chipping away at the swaths of seats in southwestern Ontario that helped propel them into a majority government.

Global News has reached out to Global Affairs Canada asking if there are any plans to reassess the export permits granted to the deal.

No response has yet been received.
https://globalnews.ca/news/4372778/saudi-canada-ambassador-feud-armoured-vehicles-justin-trudeau/
Bugs





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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just my reaction -- Saudi Arabia is an important country in the world. We should deal with it. They only abolished slavery in 1960, for example, and women have only been allowed to drive cars for a year or so. If they catch you with a bottle of scotch, they might arrest you, where you might find yourself hanging face down from your wrists and ankles for a few hours. Probably not.

Why does Justin think that he can use Canada's diplomatic weigut to advance his ego-trips?

Justin Trudeau is so superficial and banal, so genuinely and so deeply insensitive that he offered to console attendees at the Danforth victims' funerals with 'selfies'! Whatever you say about Donald Trump, he wouldn't do that!

This is another bungled bit of the Justin's vanity project. He's caught posing, and his misfortune is that the Saudis took him seriously. His gang seem to bungle everything they do. Does anyone care enough about the sad plight of Saudi women that they want to blow off $15 billion worth of high-tech industrial jobs?

Frankly, that's their culture, their religion, whatever ... it's exactly what this government expects us to tolerate in our neighbourhoods. Do you think these women would land in Canada, throw off their veils and voluminous robes, for shorts and flipl-flops, and go Canadian? It doesn't happen. They live like that by choice!

Where is the diplomacy of Chrystia Freeland and Justin Trudeau any different from "cultural imperialism"? It's an outrageous intrusion into another country's culture and society. It's losing us friends amongst nations that count.

If it's this bad now, imagine how bad it will be if he keeps power!

We should face some facts sooner rather than later.

These are the facts. Canada won its independence and place in the world through war.

We got our true independence because of the performance of Canadians in World War I. We supported several divisions, including the guys who crept up to the German trenches 150 yards behind the artillery barrage, and drove bayonets through chests when the bullets ran out. Ditto in World War II where we opened the Rotterdam ports to allied ships. The first got us our independence, the second, a seat at the table!

If we want to keep that seat at the table, we have to smarten up. When important countries in the world need weapons fast -- as Saudi Arabia does -- you expedite the order! You don't use the equipment as leverage.

That's not who we are.
Bugs





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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's getting worse.

This is what it's about.

Quote:
Saudi Arabia expels Canadian ambassador after criticism of arrest of women’s rights activists
'Any other attempt to interfere with our internal affairs from Canada means that we are allowed to interfere in Canada’s internal affairs'

Bethan McKernan

Saudi Arabia has given the Canadian ambassador to the kingdom 24 hours to leave after Ottawa criticised the arrest of women’s rights activists in the ultra-conservative country.

The Saudi foreign ministry also said it was freezing "all new business" between the two states and had withdrawn its own ambassador.

"Any other attempt to interfere with our internal affairs from Canada means that we are allowed to interfere in Canada’s internal affairs,” it declared in an extraordinary statement on Sunday night.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/saudi-arabia-canada-ambassador-women-rights-arrests-trade-freezes-a8478996.html


It almost ... almost .. feels like a threat.

And then come the "business decisions" that follow. As I read it, they're more or less telling Canadians that the Arab world won't be investing in Canada anymore.

Quote:
Saudi Airlines suspends Canadian operations starting Aug. 13
By The Canadian Press — Aug 7 2018

TORONTO — The rift between the federal government and Saudi Arabia has prompted the country's state airline to suspend operations in Canada.

Saudi Airlines issued a tweet early Tuesday saying flights to and from Canada would be suspended starting August 13.


Saudi Arabia operates at least two routes to the country, both of which depart from Toronto.

Transport Canada did not immediately respond to request for comment on the decision.

Saudi Airlines' move comes two days after the national government suspended all new trade agreements with Canada, recalled its own ambassador and gave Canada's chief diplomat 24 hours to leave the country.

Saudi Arabia says its responding to a tweet from Ottawa's Global Affairs ministry calling for the "immediate release" of jailed human rights activists in the country, comments Foreign Affairs Minister Chrystia Freeland has defended.

The Canadian Press
https://www.nationalnewswatch.com/2018/08/07/saudi-airlines-suspends-canadian-operations-starting-aug-13/#.W2my-9JKjIV


I realize there is a round of idealistic congratulations for Freeland, but trust me -- people don't like her. I don't think its only the empathy-impaired that think this is a stupid move.

My prediction? This will expose the PM as an empty suit to another segment of the population. They aren't going to be able to 'spin' their way out of this one. I think this is going to be as bad as the Inda trip for him.

Trudeau is already showing signs of hiding from the public. He's on his way to becoming the next Kathleen Wynne.

If only we had a leader', someone with fire in his belly ... but the milk marketing board wont let us have someone like that. Not if they lose their monopoly.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trust Saudi Arabia to go crazy over mild criticism even as they (SA) are trying to meld another image on the world stage. The criticism was mild and tempered in the 'gravely concerned ' manner. Hardly needs much of a response.

Not to mention the sheer hypocrisy of SA with the dealings they have in Yemen.

The ruling Prince is trying to improve the image of SA in the west and....just shot himself in the foot. LOL!

By the way, ladies have been allowed to drive for a month and a week.

Freeland is a smart cookie and will keep on speaking out. As she should. She is very well liked except by some butt hurt minions in the White House who cant handle a strong woman. Big surprise there....not.
Bugs





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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to stifle the darker side of my nature when I see a post like this. Saudi Arabians are the least hypocritical people involved in this bun-fight.

What did the ambassador actually say? It doesn't seem to be being reported. But it is clear that the "woman's rights activist' is part of a group of expatriate Saudis trying to bring the regime down. Who knows who is behind such a group?

Quote:
... Two more activists were arrested last week, according to human rights advocates, including Samar Badawi, the sister of dissident blogger Raif Badawi who was sentenced to 1,000 lashes and 10 years in jail in Saudi Arabia for “insulting Islam through electronic channels.” His wife, Ensaf Haidar, and their three children became Canadian citizens on Canada Day last month and live in Quebec.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/saudi-arabia-expels-canadian-ambassador-after-ottawa-criticizes-arrests-of-saudi-activists/2018/08/06/99df2714-9945-11e8-8d5e-c6c594024954_story.html?utm_term=.a28022239e25


I recall what Pearson did when de Gaulle stuck his finger up our asses back in 1967. I guess, for the Saudis, a Canadian ambassador giving them shit for the way they treat their women is about the same thing, when they're at war, and need the equipment.
There are any number of reasons might want to arrest Samar Badawi, Canadian just long enough to get papers, and back to the struggle. She could have been arrested for other things as well. This pair might well be admirable in their dedication and discipline. But they are enemies of the regime, no doubt.

TC might be dismissive about the Yemen War, but it is a war, and the other side has drones.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-05-13/beginners-guide-conflict-yemen

=======================

But that isn't why this escalation has continued to the point that the Saudis don't want to deal with us anymore. Our policy is a narcissistic demonstration of the Trudeau charm -- except it fails everywhere its tried. Trudeau wants to go 'over the top' in demonstrating what a good boy he is. He doesn't realize, he looks like a teenager showing off for his mother.

Sensible diplomacy keeps the human rights complaints separate from the trade arrangements. Any chance of success with the King depends upon good will, not bullying.

This mess is a result of the narcissism of the present government of Canada. And it is out of touch with reality.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
I have to stifle the darker side of my nature when I see a post like this. Saudi Arabians are the least hypocritical people involved in this bun-fight.

Riiiight...considering your printed ignorance in ealrier posts Im gonna suggest you dont know of what you speak.

Not to mention.....

Quote:
What did the ambassador actually say? It doesn't seem to be being reported.

Really huh?
The Globe
Ottawa newspapers
The Hill
The Star
Huff Post
All Suns
Winnepeg Free Press
Global News
Van Province
..... yea.... It doesn't seem to be being reported . Oi vey

Quote:
But it is clear that the "woman's rights activist' is part of a group of expatriate Saudis trying to bring the regime down. Who knows who is behind such a group?


WOW...you get that from Freelands twitter where she says (ya know that quote you wouldnt look for)...

"Very alarmed to learn that Samar Badawi, Raif Badawi’s sister, has been imprisoned in Saudi Arabia. Canada stands together with the Badawi family in this difficult time, and we continue to strongly call for the release of both Raif and Samar Badawi.

LOL!

Come on back when you have something other than crumbs when trying to hang the PM.

My gawd how delicious ![/b]
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Freeland- We are alarmed to learn of this arrest
Saudi's- Out of our country, fuck all our students in Canada.


Yup. a classical case of not only hypocrisy but small minded thinking . Save it for the big stuff ya Saudi prince.
Toronto Centre





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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All in all this is mere politics and the Saudi's think we can be used to look tough to others around the world.

Most are chuckling at best, minor concern at worst. They've done it before to look tough .

Meh....it will cycle out real soon.
Bugs





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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe TC can explain it to the good folks who were hoping the order would be increased... why should they have jobs when women in Saudi Arabia feel discomfort?

What's that got to do with a trade deal? There's no question who the boneheads are here -- it's the Canadians. There is nothing about this that's smart. There's nothing about this that will do women in Saudi Arabia any good. There's nothing about his that's in Canada's interest.

Remember this?

Quote:
Philippines president says he wants to axe multimillion-dollar deal to buy Canadian helicopters
Canada calls President Rodrigo Duterte's comments 'troubling'
CBC News · Posted: Feb 09, 2018 8:21 AM ET | Last Updated: February 9

Philippines President Rodrigo Duterte says he wants to cancel a multimillion-dollar deal to buy 16 helicopters from Canada, just days after Ottawa ordered a review of the sale.

"So this is my reaction. I want to tell the armed forces to cut the deal ... and somehow we will look for another supplier. We respect the stand of Canada," he said during a media briefing Friday morning.

At one point during the briefing, Duterte asks someone in audience how many helicopters his country is buying from Canada.

Federal government orders review of controversial helicopter deal with the Philippines
Freeland's proposal to join Arms Trade Treaty called inadequate
"So from here on now, I am directing the armed forces of the Philippines, since most of the guns, bullets and whatever, weapons of war ... invariably to be used against the rebels and the terrorists, do not buy any more from Canada. Or from the United States, because there is always a condition attached," he said. [....]
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/helicoptes-duterte-cut-deal-1.4527920


It's hypocrisy all that way down. You can't expect a country at war, even using mercenaries -- it's all mercenaries on both sides doing most of the fighting -- to lose an engagement because of a promise made to Canada?

Do you actually expect to sell 'large amounts of military equipment to nations in an actual shooting war, on condition it won't be used to hurt anybody?

////////////////////////////////

Saudi Arabia only abolished slavery in 1960. Yemen still has slavery. What makes anyone think that Saudi women are ready for men in dresses in their washrooms?

Of course, Chrystia Freeland understands that ... she just doesn't care. This is her time, her chance to spread her wings ... I am Woman, hear me roar .... It's her time in the spotlight, and she is going to make herself look as good as she can ....

Narcissism ...
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who knows what you are trying to say.

All that from ..Very alarmed to learn that Samar Badawi, Raif Badawi’s sister, has been imprisoned in Saudi Arabia.

Apparently Alex Jones is looking for you . And Reynolds Wrap loves you !
Bugs





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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you google "internet cliches" before you post? How dreary!

(Someone should tell TC -- it's about diplomatic relations with an important country that has oil coming out of its ears. He thinks it's about a tweet!)

What I am trying to point out is how this reflects the motives of the bunglers we (the People) have let hold the keys to the treasury. Vanity plays a big part. Not just Justin -- Chrystia as well.

I think this is the incident that will put a lock on his reputation. Even as lame an insurance salesman as Andrew Scheer might be able to beat him, they're that bad.
Bugs





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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The cost of landing on Saudi Arabia's bad side will be big
Kevin Carmichael: Politics now represent one of the biggest threats to the global economy

Kevin Carmichael
August 7, 2018
7:07 AM EDT

News of Canada’s apparent ejection from the list of countries that stand to benefit from Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Salman’s largesse reminded me of something that Stephen Poloz, the Bank of Canada governor, said last month.

It was from his interview with the Financial Post. I had asked Poloz if he thought Canadian aluminum and steel exports might push through U.S. duties the same way lumber shipments had? He surprised me by saying the issue was bigger than that. “It could be that we’re putting too much energy into it,” he said, referring to the tit-for-tat response to the Trump administration’s tax on metal imports.

“But at the same time,” Poloz continued, “if we’re not going to spend energy on it, just because this is small, or that’s not going to have much effect, what good are we? There are principles involved.”

Late last week, Freeland, and then her department, tweeted statements of disappointment over the imprisonment of advocates for women’s rights by Saudi authorities.

There was no reason to pay any attention to those tweets. Canada has little, if any, influence in the Middle East, and those are the sorts of comments democratic countries direct at their less-democratic trading partners all the time.

Except countries such as Saudi Arabia are becoming more sensitive to scolding from abroad. The kingdom responded to Freeland’s tweet in shocking fashion, expelling the Canadian ambassador and freezing “all new business” with Canada.

“Any further step from the Canadian side in that direction will be considered as acknowledgment of our right to interfere in Canadian domestic affairs,” the Saudi foreign ministry said in a statement. “Canada and all other nations need to know that they can’t claim to be more concerned than the kingdom over its own citizens.”

All this should be a reminder that politics now represent one of the biggest threats to the global economy.

The trade wars get most of the attention, but the issue is bigger than that. Before the financial crisis, a democratic world order seemed possible. Now, emerging powers are looking to different role models. China’s brand of state-sponsored capitalism has a track record of generating wealth, and Beijing’s see-no-evil approach to international investment offers an alternative to Western money that comes with strings attached.

Authoritarian regimes in countries such as Turkey, Russia, and the Philippines feel emboldened to go their own way, putting pressure on France, Canada, and other winners of the Cold War to stand up for free trade, the rule of law and human rights. All of this makes geopolitics acutely unpredictable, especially since it’s difficult to know on any given day on which side of this divide U.S. President Donald Trump places himself.

Here’s an example of how quickly political conditions change.

The first thing someone at Export Development Canada will need to do when the Ottawa-based agency reopens after the holiday weekend is tweak its assessment of Saudi Arabia as an investment destination.

EDC, which, among other things, sells insurance for potential losses from arbitrary government decisions, currently rates Saudi as “open” for business, with a “low risk” of political interference.

The Crown lender, like many others around the world, had become excited by bin Salman’s plan to spend a fortune over the next couple of decades overhauling his country’s economy to make it less dependent on oil and a bloated public service. Bin Salman intends to finance at least some of his program by selling a stake in Saudi Aramco, the world’s biggest oil company, although it remains unclear when the sale will happen. EDC spied opportunities for Canadian companies and investors in power generation, telecommunications, natural gas exploration, and the production of petrochemicals.

“The country’s efforts to diversify its economy is driving opportunities for Canadians in many sectors,” EDC says on its website. “Business opportunities exist across a wide range of sectors that match Canadian capabilities.”

That was true on August 3. Today, probably not. Saudi Arabia’s rulers are said to hold grudges.

Some will say this episode offers further evidence that the Trudeau government is unserious when it comes to international affairs. Bin Salman, the 30-something heir to throne, has started a war with Yemen, isolated Qatar, and picked fights with Sweden and Germany when those countries questioned his country’s commitment to human rights. Therefore, Freeland and her officials should have known that they would be courting a backlash.

“It would appear that Canada continues to view Saudi Arabia with an outdated ideological lens,” said Omar Allam, a former diplomat and chief executive officer of Allam Advisory Group, a trade consultancy. “The current Canadian trade playbook is clearly not working, and Ottawa’s foreign policy and engagement strategy in Saudi Arabia has backfired.”

The opportunity cost of ending up on bin Salman’s bad side is big. But so is the threat to the international system that Canada helped build. One of the reasons democracies are in trouble is too many of their leaders have put their national interests ahead of the principles they claim to defend. As Poloz might say, if a country such as Canada can’t express its opinion about the treatment of non-violent agitators for equality, what good are we?
https://business.financialpost.com/news/economy/cost-of-landing-on-saudi-arabias-bad-side-will-be-big
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SA is using Canada as a pawn, plain and simple.

UBS is trying to act tough to his detractors/Uber religious goofs in SA all the while trying to present a moderate front .

Pretty transparent but some cant see it.
Bugs





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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why would they choose Canada to make look ridiculous? Why not -- say -- Portugall?

It's because Justin's people told them how to treat their women!, abd Canada is weak and in decline acting in a pretentious an arrogant manner.

Second, the leadership of Canada is a laughing stock on the international stage. Justin Trudeau has revealed himself to be an empty-headed ideologue and nothing else. He tries to impose the ideals that were assigned to him on the rest of the worl -- he hasn't the wit to understand 'the issues and form an independent view. So, he's made us a punching bag.

Nice going Justin.

Would this have happened under Harper?
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
Why would they choose Canada to make look ridiculous? Why not -- say -- Portugall? <sic>

What did Portugal say? Nothing?

Well then, that answers that.

We dont look ridiculous, the Saudis do, go read a newspaper and find that most think this is silly of the SA's.
Quote:

It's because Justin's people told them how to treat their women!,

No he didnt. Alex Jones strikes again.

Get the facts right. Sheesh.
Quote:


Second, the leadership of Canada is a laughing stock on the international stage.

LOL! Sure sure. Maybe to Alex Jones types and uber dumb Canadians, but hey...you can own that !
Quote:
So, he's made us a punching bag.

You do know that the G7 backed him when the large orange idiot lied about him? Maybe not. Oh well.

Quote:

Would this have happened under Harper?

Do I care?
Nope
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Saudi Arabia breaks ties with Canada over Human Rights

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