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cosmostein





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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:32 pm    Post subject: Doug Ford: Minimum wage = no income tax Reply with quote

Just got an email blast stating that one of the PC campaign planks will be to seemingly eliminate Provincial Income Tax from Minimum Wage earners;

Not exactly a surprise as he made a similar remark during the debates but certainly one that targets voters that may be incline to stick with the OLP.

Generally speaking its a fairly low cost promise given the amount of revenue the Provincial Government is projecting.
RCO





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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Doug Ford: Minimum wage = no income tax Reply with quote

cosmostein wrote:
Just got an email blast stating that one of the PC campaign planks will be to seemingly eliminate Provincial Income Tax from Minimum Wage earners;

Not exactly a surprise as he made a similar remark during the debates but certainly one that targets voters that may be incline to stick with the OLP.

Generally speaking its a fairly low cost promise given the amount of revenue the Provincial Government is projecting.




this has been mentioned before , minimum wage earners when they file income tax in the spring often get this money back anyways so it wouldn't likely mean much difference just they wouldn't have to wait till end of the year to get the money back . they'd have it already


but it does seem to be a policy plank that targets a demographic the pc's have done very poorly with in recent elections , lower income voters and young people
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ford promises tax relief for those earning minimum wage

By Canadian Press. Published on Apr 16, 2018 3:44pm


Ontario PC leader Doug Ford. THE CANADIAN PRESS/Chris Donovan



Ontario’s Progressive Conservatives say they would eliminate provincial income tax for anyone earning the minimum wage if elected this June.

Tory Leader Doug Ford, who is unveiling key planks of his platform one by one, says he would bring in a tax credit by next January.

He says the program would cost the province roughly $500 million a year. As premier, he would only have jurisdiction over the provincial income tax.

The promise echoes an earlier proposal from Ford, who had vowed to scrap the tax for anyone taking home less than $30,000 a year.

At the time, an independent economic analysis showed low-income workers would benefit more from a higher minimum wage — a Liberal plan — than lower taxes.

The analysis from the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives found the planned wage hike would bring people more money than a tax cut would save them.

Ford has vowed to keep the minimum wage at $14 rather than going through with a scheduled increase that would bump it to $15 next year.

https://ipolitics.ca/2018/04/16/ford-promises-tax-relief-for-those-earning-minimum-wage/
Bugs





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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As election promises go, this is a good one, but it makes me antsy about making promises.

This promise is OK because it reduces a fear -- the realistic fear that the second half of the increase in the minimum wage won't come. OK<it's not an intense fear, but it is being amplified in the atmosphere.

Otherwise, I hope Ford focuses on the direction of his administration -- economizing and value for money type thinking -- rather than payoffs for votes.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
As election promises go, this is a good one, but it makes me antsy about making promises.

This promise is OK because it reduces a fear -- the realistic fear that the second half of the increase in the minimum wage won't come. OK<it's not an intense fear, but it is being amplified in the atmosphere.

Otherwise, I hope Ford focuses on the direction of his administration -- economizing and value for money type thinking -- rather than payoffs for votes.


The Minimum Wage hike was passing the buck onto business;
For the Government it was win/win

Appear Progressive and increase tax revenue to support increased spending.

The approach to reduce taxes on minimum wage earners rather than increasing the minimum wage is a compromise which takes the further burden off business where it never should have been placed with that timeline to begin with.

Its not a bad start as far as platforms go.

The cost of the promise is also low;
Pay 7b toward the debt and you get most of that promise paid for in interest savings moving forward.
RCO





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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

( it seems the media has become the official critic of every pc policy announcement with the CBC putting out this article today about how minimum wage earners would be worse off under ford's planned income tax cut )


Doug Ford's pledge of 'zero income tax' leaves minimum wage earners worse off

Doing the math reveals Liberal, NDP plan for $15 hourly rate puts more money in workers' pockets


Mike Crawley · CBC News · Posted: Apr 18, 2018 5:00 AM ET | Last Updated: 2 hours ago


PC Leader Doug Ford is promising no provincial income tax for minimum wage earners, but that would put less in their pockets than a $1/hr wage increase, according to research by CBC News. (Matthew Kupfer/CBC)


Ontario PC leader Doug Ford's big campaign promise for minimum wage workers, announced this week, is to offer them an income tax credit.

Ford is pitching this as relief for "folks that are working their back off for minimum wage." He said the move would give a full-time worker earning $14 an hour about $800 extra in a year.


Ford didn't mention that the same worker would get nearly twice that amount if the hourly minimum wage rises by $1 next year, something he is promising to stop.

CBC News did the math to compare Ford's income tax proposal with the Liberal and NDP pledge to boost the minimum wage to $15 per hour as of Jan. 1, 2019.


At the current rate of $14/hr, a full-time minimum wage earner has a gross annual income of $29,120. Factoring in the basic tax deductions available to all employees, that person would pay about $859 in provincial income tax. That would be the maximum tax credit available under Ford's plan.

Raising the minimum wage to $15/hr gives that same full-time worker an extra $2,080 in gross annual income. After subtracting federal and provincial income taxes, Canada Pension Plan and employment insurance premiums, that worker takes home an extra $1,553 next year, under the Liberal and NDP plan.

•Ford's plan would provide a tax credit of about $396 a year.
•the $15/hr minimum wage would provide extra take-home pay of about $970 a year.


It means the minimum wage increase leaves the worker with about $700 more than Ford's income tax credit would. CBC News showed the calculations to all three parties and to an independent economist for verification.

"You do come away further ahead with an increase in the minimum wage than you do with the promise of the minimum wage tax credit," said Sheila Block, an economist with the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives.

The proportionate advantage of the wage increase is even greater for part-time workers. For someone working 25 hours a week:


Ford is trying to "disguise" his plan as something that would help low-wage workers, Labour Minister Kevin Flynn said Tuesday.

"He's reaching right into their pockets and taking money right out of their wallets," Flynn told reporters at Queen's Park.


Ontario Labour Minister Kevin Flynn says Doug Ford's plan wouldn't help minimum wage earners. In fact, Flynn says, Ford's tax proposal would take money 'right out of their wallets.' (Claudine Brulé/Radio-Canada)

"It's not helping poor working people in the province of Ontario at all. It's helping the rich people that Mr. Ford seems to like to associate with," he said. "It just doesn't wash; it doesn't make any sense."

"I have one question for Doug Ford: Why is he ripping off the lowest paid workers in this province?" said NDP leader Andrea Horwath.

"You're talking like you support these workers, and that you care about them. But by not giving them the minimum wage that's higher, you're going to be ripping them off."

PC officials say a Ford government would halt the scheduled minimum wage increase to $15 an hour on Jan. 1, 2019. They say Ford would not freeze the minimum wage but would allow it to rise annually by inflation.

The officials say a refundable tax credit would be provided to minimum wage workers equal to the amount of provincial income tax.

"We believe this is the right thing to do in order to help those people struggling to make ends meet," said party spokesman Simon Jefferies.


Ontario NDP leader Andrea Horwath says Doug Ford is talking like he supports low-wage workers but is 'ripping them off' by refusing to allow the minimum wage to rise to $15 an hour if he becomes premier. (Chris Donovan/Canadian Press)

However, the tax credit would not apply to anyone who earns above minimum wage, the officials said.

When Ford announced the minimum wage tax credit in Ottawa on Monday, he slammed Premier Kathleen Wynne, whose government increased the minimum wage from $11.60 an hour last year to $14 an hour.

"What Kathleen Wynne doesn't tell you, is that she's still taxing those on the minimum wage," Ford said. "The people that are struggling day in and day out to put food on their table, they're still being taxed."

The provincial income tax rate is 5.05 per cent on earnings below $42,960, with the first $10,354 in earnings exempt.

Ford said under his plan, the province would bring in about $500 million less in annual revenue.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/.....-1.4623450
RCO





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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the CBC analysis is clearly another media smear at Ford , the reality is no minimum wage earner is going to be worse off a year from now no matter who wins as no party is planning on lowering the minimum wage ( even though it might be too high for some businesses )

if Ford wins there still going to be making $14 an hour which is almost $3 more than they were making at this time last year and they'd get an income tax credit of between $300 or $800 a year


I really don't see how the CBC could claim that person would be worse off ? there clearly making more money then they were before and more than most of these minimum wage jobs had ever previously paid ( basic staff are getting the kind of money managers and assistant managers were getting in years past )


well it might be true that someone working full time at $15 an hour might make slightly more , no minimum wage earner is going to be worse off a year from now under ford's plan , no money is being taken out of there pockets , the $15 dollar an hour minimum wage does not exist and is only a campaign promise wynne has dangled in front of them like a carrot


whats also not mentioned in the CBC analysis is that most minimum wage earners only work part time hours and not 40 a week , so many would not see the kind of money someone working full time would . and that many businesses have cut back hours and staff after the initial wage hike so there isn't as many minimum wage jobs
Bugs





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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This article represents the attitude of the managerial classes ... those who think our greatest political challenge is global warming ... (would today be a good day to talk about when global warming is going to get here?) But I don't mock -- Margaret Wente is an accurate barometer of her demographic. In this, Margaret Wente contemplates the impact of Doug Ford on the dinner parties of North Toronto.

Quote:
Ford vs Wynne: A contest between fear and loathing in Ontario
Margaret Wente

MARGARET WENTE
PUBLISHED APRIL 16, 2018
UPDATED 23 HOURS AGO
If you want to bring a dinner party in Toronto to a crashing halt, just mention the Ontario election coming up in June. It’s not a pleasant subject.

The first reaction is likely to be a heavy silence. The second reaction is likely to be: “Under no circumstances will I vote for Kathleen Wynne.”

Who, then, is the alternative? Nobody will say. The alternatives are too dismal to contemplate. Andrea Horwath, the NDP leader, seems like a nice person but she doesn’t count. No one I have yet met, not even conservatives, will admit out loud that she or he might actually vote for Doug Ford. That’s because they know their friends will think worse of them (even though their friends may be harbouring exactly the same transgressive thought). You might as well admit that you like Donald Trump.

In some ways this feels like 2010 all over again, the year Doug’s younger brother Rob won the Toronto mayoralty by a shocking majority – shocking, because so many people voted for him secretly. Rob was a populist buffoon. His opponent, George Smitherman, was an entitled, big-spending, wind-tower-loving liberal. He deserved a spanking and he got it.

But there are differences, too. Doug is in many ways a more respectable figure than bad-boy Rob was. No drugs, no prostitutes, no domestic disputes. Also, the stakes are higher. Rob only got a city to mess up. Doug will get a third of Canada.

What Mr. Ford has going for him is that the province is quite messed up already. Cynics might say it could scarcely get worse. Fifteen years of Liberal rule have given us sky-high hydro prices, put-upon small businesses, aggrieved doctors and a steaming pile of debt that’s costing taxpayers a billion dollars a month in interest. According to an IPSOS poll released last week, 77 per cent of Ontarians want a change. How bad is that? “About as bad as I’ve seen it,” tweeted IPSOS CEO of public affairs Darrell Bricker.

Mr. Ford won the Progressive Conservative leadership after the previous leader, Patrick Brown, was felled by rumours of a sex scandal. Mr. Brown was not a universal favourite. Still, a lot of people figured that Mr. Ford’s victory would be a disaster for the party’s chances – the latest instance of its uncanny ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. But it isn’t turning out that way. Right now, Mr. Ford is cruising toward a majority. He goes on all the talk shows, insults the hosts (if he’s on the CBC) and repeats his standard line about the elites – people who “look down on the common folk drinking champagne … with their pinkies in the air. “ People eat it up.

During the leadership campaign, Mr. Ford drew wide condemnation from people who pointed out that he doesn’t know a thing about how the province works. This is true. Like Mr. Trump, he wears his ignorance like a badge of honour. After all, you don’t have to understand the swamp to drain it. The other day he announced that the moment he’s elected he’ll fire the head of Hydro One. Why? Not because the hydro guy raised the hydro rates. (Someone else did that.) The reason is because he makes $6-million a year and you don’t. Experts pointed out how stupid and pointless that would be, but Mr. Ford knows something they do not. He knows exactly how to please a crowd.

Champagne socialists with their pinkies in the air are horrified by Mr. Ford. But a surprising number of new immigrants and minorities – as well as women – are fans. This drives the folks at The Toronto Star absolutely nuts. Ford fans are supposed to be ignorant white male deplorables. The immigrants and minorities and women are supposed to vote for progressive parties. But these days things are all mixed up. It’s so bad that you don’t know who to deplore any more.

To set the masses straight, the Liberals are launching a million-dollar advertising war this week. Their message is predictable: Mr. Ford is a deranged lunatic who will gut social programs and rob women of their reproductive rights. Demonizing their opponent has worked before. Will it work again? Don’t bet on it. Mr. Ford’s negatives are high (40 per cent) but Ms. Wynne’s are much higher (62 per cent).
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-fear-and-loathing-in-ontario/


You will note much of this is based on a sense of the social inferiority of Doug Ford! She really has no case against Ford except his lack of polish. Nor is it simply her own feeling. She is a good reporter. She describes the feelings of those people towards Ford as "loathing". I take her at her word. The managerial set react to Ford with a silent contempt.

This is not a trivial thing -- it seems to me a division within the Conservative Party as well. The leadership are from this same managerial set, but their actual voters are the Letterkenny people, whom the leadership have spent most of their lives feeling superior to. But it is exactly what they loathe that gives Ford roots in the 905-like areas.
(Conservatives already hold rural southern Ontario.)
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that Wente perfectly summarizes what I expect to be a key plank in both the NDP and the OLP Platform

"But.....Doug Ford!"

While I will freely admit Ford was not my first choice when it came to selecting a leadership candidate, he is my first choice when I weigh my options at the ballot box for the pending election.

Is Doug Ford an asshole?
Probably

But he the only asshole that seems even remotely concerned about a debt that is in excess of 300b and the lack of governments ability to balance the books on record revenue.


Last edited by cosmostein on Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:49 am; edited 1 time in total
Bugs





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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to pick up on your point, Cosmo, they are (almost) all assholes.

Do you think that McGuinty wasn't an asshole? He was a huge asshole, and the women's vote kept the lying weasel in power for too long. Wynne isn't an asshole? Justin isn't an asshole? Patrick was an asshole too. Where does Scheer come out on the asshole index? Let's not go there.

Doug Ford is probably less of an asshole than any of these people, if you mean a guy you'd enjoy having a beer with. And he's the only one in the race focused on the right things!

But there is a difference. Their assholes are lying deceptive assholes. Our assholes are guys who want receipts for your expense account.
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL; That's fair enough.
To some extent, they are all assholes.

However in this instance I am not going to a ballot box to select a prom king or queen.
As such the individual candidate's ranking on the deplorable/want to have a beer with scale would never be my primary reason for casting a vote.

I have seen a poll or two in the last few weeks basically asking (obviously paraphrasing) "Is Doug Ford an asshole"? and about half the Province seems to think so

The real question is if being an asshole disqualifies you from getting their vote.


Last edited by cosmostein on Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:14 pm; edited 2 times in total
RCO





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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

( whoever is running the liberal twitter feeds is losing it , wynne put out some crazy tweet an hour ago and I only posted some of it , ramblyings about trump , ford and other things , funny wasn't the liberals who started to run attack ads this week not ford ? who sent the campaign down a nasty road )


Kathleen Wynne‏Verified account @Kathleen_Wynne


Follow Follow @Kathleen_Wynne


Let’s just call this out for what it is – Doug Ford sounds like Donald Trump. And that’s because he IS like Donald Trump. He believes in an ugly, vicious brand of politics that traffics in smears and lies.

He’ll say anything about anyone at any time – because, just like Trump, it’s all about him. Not about our people and their families. Not about Ontario’s success. But about him. That’s how Trump campaigned in 2016. That’s how Ford is campaigning right now.


And I guarantee you – it will get worse before it gets better. We saw it this week when Doug lied – flat out lied – about his appalling comments about families living with autism. Yesterday — he did it again — when he all but chanted “Lock Her Up” talking about me.

It’s not about me. I have pretty thick skin. But I want people to notice what’s going on here – Doug Ford stands for nothing but Doug Ford. And, just like Donald Trump, there’s only one way to deal with him. You have stand up to him. Because that’s how you deal with a bully.
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RCO wrote:
( whoever is running the liberal twitter feeds is losing it , wynne put out some crazy tweet an hour ago and I only posted some of it , ramblyings about trump , ford and other things , funny wasn't the liberals who started to run attack ads this week not ford ? who sent the campaign down a nasty road )

Kathleen Wynne‏Verified account @Kathleen_Wynne

Follow Follow @Kathleen_Wynne

Let’s just call this out for what it is – Doug Ford sounds like Donald Trump. And that’s because he IS like Donald Trump. He believes in an ugly, vicious brand of politics that traffics in smears and lies.


Isn't that in itself a smear?

This is to be expected;
For the OLP to be successful this campaign cannot be a referendum on their record, their policies, or their economic philosophy.

It has to be about something else;
Anything else really, just not their record.

Ford is a Bully and I am standing up to a Bully sounds about correct as the theme for the OLP in the coming election.

Will "Sure, we basically tripled the debt, have no plan to balance the books, and will probably need to raise taxes to maintain our spending but Doug Ford is mean" fit on a shirt?
Toronto Centre





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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cosmostein wrote:

The real question is if being an asshole disqualifies you from getting their vote.

And therein lies my conundrum.

He is that and a liar, one need only look at his turn as councillor. He BS'd us all day every day.

But....Wynnes record is deplorable and not worthy of my vote. NDP may as well be the Greens for all I care.
Quote:
It has to be about something else;
Anything else really, just not their record.

Pretty much, even the good things are overshadowed by he spending largesse.


PB would have got my vote if he hadnt screwed up, even those his mannerisms were prickly to me.
RCO





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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cosmostein wrote:
RCO wrote:
( whoever is running the liberal twitter feeds is losing it , wynne put out some crazy tweet an hour ago and I only posted some of it , ramblyings about trump , ford and other things , funny wasn't the liberals who started to run attack ads this week not ford ? who sent the campaign down a nasty road )

Kathleen Wynne‏Verified account @Kathleen_Wynne

Follow Follow @Kathleen_Wynne

Let’s just call this out for what it is – Doug Ford sounds like Donald Trump. And that’s because he IS like Donald Trump. He believes in an ugly, vicious brand of politics that traffics in smears and lies.


Isn't that in itself a smear?

This is to be expected;
For the OLP to be successful this campaign cannot be a referendum on their record, their policies, or their economic philosophy.

It has to be about something else;
Anything else really, just not their record.

Ford is a Bully and I am standing up to a Bully sounds about correct as the theme for the OLP in the coming election.

Will "Sure, we basically tripled the debt, have no plan to balance the books, and will probably need to raise taxes to maintain our spending but Doug Ford is mean" fit on a shirt?



either way I'm surprised by how amateur the liberals online campaign has been so far , from the tweet claiming ford said he loved black people to wynne's rant earlier today , its been really immature for a political party that has been in power since 2003

but I agree they have very little to campaign on and the desire for change is very high at this point

ford also doesn't seem to be taking the bait , he's been rather composed and his campaign style visits have been rather successful and well attended so far
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Doug Ford: Minimum wage = no income tax

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