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Bugs





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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toronto Centre wrote:
cosmostein wrote:

The real question is if being an asshole disqualifies you from getting their vote.

And therein lies my conundrum.

He is that and a liar, one need only look at his turn as councillor. He BS'd us all day every day.

But....Wynnes record is deplorable and not worthy of my vote. NDP may as well be the Greens for all I care.
Quote:
It has to be about something else;
Anything else really, just not their record.

Pretty much, even the good things are overshadowed by he spending largesse.


PB would have got my vote if he hadnt screwed up, even those his mannerisms were prickly to me.


Doug Ford will get your vote too, even if you just stay home. You can pretend to be tortured ... like Henri IV when he decided Paris was worth a mass. Nonsense, there's no plusses left in Wynne's side of the column to weigh off against anything else. If you vote Liberal in this election, you have to be a political zombie, ready to follow the red banner anywhere.

This isn't about left or right -- it's about competence and decadence.

Everything you list off as a reason for your torture is part of a media narrative that is wrong. The voters weren't wrong to elect Rob Ford in the first place -- look at the other choice. What is it, substantively, that you have against Ford?

I understand you would prefer a more effete candidate, but that isn't on offer in this election. Face it, the first lesbian premier of Ontario didn't do much to advance the case for women in politics. She just maxxed out the credit card ...
Toronto Centre





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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:

Doug Ford will get your vote too, even if you just stay home.

Apart from being impossible.....
Quote:


Everything you list off as a reason for your torture is part of a media narrative that is wrong. The voters weren't wrong to elect Rob Ford in the first place -- look at the other choice.

It isnt a mdeia narrative, its the truth. He has lied almost always and is an asshole.

I know that....firsthand.

As for voting in Rob, I agree with you to some degree .
Quote:

What is it, substantively, that you have against Ford?

Id tell you for the fourth time but why bother when you didnt read the first three times?
RCO





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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ontario Premier Wynne calls Ford a 'bully,' says he's just like Trump



Paola Loriggio , The Canadian Press
Published Wednesday, April 18, 2018 3:17PM EDT



TORONTO -- Ontario Premier Kathleen Wynne says her Tory opponent is just like U.S. President Donald Trump, calling Doug Ford a bully and a coward who "traffics in smears and lies."

Wynne pushed back Wednesday when asked about comments Ford made a day earlier in which he suggested some Liberals could face jail time if they pulled what he described as "shady tricks" with taxpayer dollars.

The premier said Ford is borrowing from Trump's playbook, and predicted the spring election campaign will be "vicious."


"Doug Ford sounds like Donald Trump and that's because he is like Donald Trump," she said. "He believes in ugly, vicious brand of politics that traffics and smears and lies. He'll say anything about anyone at any time because just like Trump, it is all about him."

Wynne said the only way to fight that kind of behaviour is to stand up to it.

"I'm not going to go high. I'm not going to go low. I'm going to call that bullying behaviour out for what it is," she said.

The Progressive Conservatives dismissed the comparison to Trump as a bizarre and desperate election ploy meant to distract from the Liberals' political record.

"Desperate, desperate person," Ford said when asked about Wynne's comments. "We've seen this trick before, she's trying to hoodwink the people, she thinks she's smarter than the people."

Ford repeated his promise to order a full outside audit of government books if elected premier.

"We'll find out all her buddies that she's made rich for 15 years, all the backroom deals Kathleen Wynne's made on your backs," he said.

Ford announced the proposed audit Tuesday, saying he didn't trust the Liberals' accounting and referencing the gas plants scandal that saw former premier Dalton McGuinty's ex-chief of staff sentenced to four months in jail for deleting documents.

"If Kathleen Wynne tried to pull these kinds of shady tricks in private life, then there would be a few more Liberals joining David Livingston in jail. Ontario deserves answers about how big Kathleen Wynne's mess really is," Ford said Tuesday.

The Tories have repeatedly criticized the Liberals for what they call reckless spending of public funds.

A key ratings agency, Moody's Investor Services, downgraded its outlook on Ontario's finances Wednesday to "negative" from "stable" in light of the Liberal government's plan to run six consecutive multibillion-dollar deficits.


https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/ontario-election-2018/ontario-premier-wynne-calls-ford-a-bully-says-he-s-just-like-trump-1.3890743
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toronto Centre wrote:

And therein lies my conundrum.

He is that and a liar, one need only look at his turn as councillor. He BS'd us all day every day.


Sure,
But in terms of government record so is Wynne and likely so would Horwath or Schreiner but they just haven't had the opportunity yet.

Being an asshole, a liar, and a deplorable unfortunately hasn't proven a sure fire means to disqualified anyone from public office historically.

Going to the ballot box for me is not about selecting my moral superiors to run the Province, its about selecting the course of the least damage long term. The latter is where I suspect many people will differ come June.


Last edited by cosmostein on Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RCO wrote:

Ford repeated his promise to order a full outside audit of government books if elected premier.

"We'll find out all her buddies that she's made rich for 15 years, all the backroom deals Kathleen Wynne's made on your backs," he said.

Ford announced the proposed audit Tuesday, saying he didn't trust the Liberals' accounting and referencing the gas plants scandal that saw former premier Dalton McGuinty's ex-chief of staff sentenced to four months in jail for deleting documents.

"If Kathleen Wynne tried to pull these kinds of shady tricks in private life, then there would be a few more Liberals joining David Livingston in jail. Ontario deserves answers about how big Kathleen Wynne's mess really is," Ford said Tuesday.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/ontario-election-2018/ontario-premier-wynne-calls-ford-a-bully-says-he-s-just-like-trump-1.3890743


This is exactly what I was hoping for.

The current government as been at odds with the Auditor General and the Financial Accountability Officer in terms of accounting practices, both of whom have been appointed during this Governments tenure.

An internal review by any new Government would stink of partisan accusations;
Whereas a third party review can be turned over verbatim if something appears out of sorts.
Bugs





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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, despite whatever TC is alluding to when he makes his off-handed assessment, Ford seems to be asking the right questions, and nobody else -- including the media -- is.

He keeps coming back to the economic record, but it's more than that. The questions he raises lead to the right kind of suggestions. The audit is a good example. So is the tax proposal for minimum wage earners.
RCO





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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

April 18, 2018 1:19 pm

COMMENTARY: Kathleen Wynne drags Donald Trump into Ontario politics

640 Toronto
By Matt Gurney
Radio Host Global News


Kathleen Wynne, the premier of Ontario, just attacked her political rival by comparing him, in vividly negative terms, to Donald Trump. That's not good for Ontario, Matt Gurney says.

THE CANADIAN PRESS/Chris Young


The premier of Ontario has identified her enemy. Strangely, it’s the president of the United States of America.




At a press conference on Wednesday morning at Toronto’s Sunnybrook hospital, an event that was theoretically to announce another billion dollars for health-care spending, Kathleen Wynne took aim at Ontario Progressive Conservative leader Doug Ford … and Donald Trump.


The premier, who lags well behind Ford in all current polling, has been trying to turn her fortunes around by promising voters … hmm … I was going to say promising voters a “boatload” of pre-election spending goodies, but I’m not sure that quite does it justice. We’re up to multiple boats. A veritable convoy, at this point.

It hasn’t worked. Despite all the money being promised, and all the programs, the Liberals are not making up any ground in the polls. The PCs remain way, way ahead.


So the Premier has decided to try something else.

“Doug Ford sounds like Donald Trump,” the premier said, “and that’s because he’s like Donald Trump. He believes in an ugly, vicious brand of politics that traffics in smears and lies. He’ll say anything about anyone at any time because, just like Trump, it’s all about him.”

She went on in that vein for a bit, but you get the point. The premier of Ontario just attacked her political rival by comparing him, in vividly negative terms, to Donald Trump.


I’m not going to invest much time and energy parsing the comparison, or assessing its accuracy. Suffice it to say that I see some similarities between Ford and Trump, at least in their style of politics. Both seek a combative relationship with the media, both exaggerate their accomplishments and struggle with the truth, both are incredibly sensitive to criticism, both are easily provoked. If someone were to raise that in a conversation with me, I’d grant the point. I think comparisons between Trump and Ford are usually massively overdone, but there are some similarities. And if Ford would quit hinting he’d like to lock Wynne up, that would be good, too.

But here’s the thing: it’s one thing for people to have a conversation like that over a few beers, or even on a political panel or in an op-ed. It’s another thing for Wynne, who is the premier of the largest province in the Canadian federation, who speaks for almost 14 million Ontarians, to drag a foreign leader into our politics.


Ontarians will go to the polls in less than two months. We have three options to choose from, and serious issues to tackle. None of them involve the American Commander in Chief. There is no real value in dragging Trump into our politics, and plenty of risk: Americans have the Internet, too. There’s a very real chance that the premier’s comments will get picked up south of the border. Fox News opinion hosts could probably hang a segment or two off of them, for instance. If Premier Wynne is re-elected, and one day needs to go to Washington to try and get some of Ontarians’ concerns on a matter of trade or the environment heard, she might find it hard to be heard by many Republicans. And maybe even some Democrats who didn’t like a foreigner taking pot shots at the President of the Republic.

Canadians have strong views on Trump. I’m one of them. He’s unfit for office and I will celebrate the day he’s no longer president. But I’m also a voter in Ontario. I care about local issues, and I want my politicians to address them. That’s the kind of campaign I want.


Or, at the very least, if the premier of Ontario feels like she has to go negative — and with her poll numbers this bad, she probably does — then go negative on Doug Ford himself. It wouldn’t be hard. Ford is controversial. He puts his foot in his mouth. His party doesn’t have a platform right now. There is an absolute ton of stuff the premier can hit him with that has nothing to do with the United States and its own bitterly divided politics.

Going after Trump when she could go after Ford is desperate. It’s ugly. It could harm our relationship with Ontario’s largest trading partner — 49 per cent of Ontario’s GDP relies directly on trade with the United States. And, best of all, it’s hypocritical. The premier’s own words say so.

“[Ford] will say anything about anyone at any time because just like Trump, it is all about him,” the premier lamented. That’s interesting. Because with those comments, the Ontario premier didn’t just take aim at her actual opponent, but at the man that the citizens of our largest trading partner and closest ally chose, through an admittedly weird process, to be their leader.

Donald Trump is not a good man, but he is the president of the United States. The U.S. is our ally and our friend and, bluntly, we need them. That very much includes Ontario.

Taking aim at him to bolster a struggling re-election campaign isn’t just bizarre and desperate — it’s both of those things, but it’s more than that. It’s selfish. It risks damaging the trading relationship that millions of Ontarians depend on to make a living. It’s gas plants redux: the Ontario Liberals are putting their own re-election ahead of the needs of the province.

In other words, the premier is making it all about her. Just like she’s accusing Ford, and Trump, of doing.

Matt Gurney is host of The Exchange with Matt Gurney on Global News Radio 640 Toronto and a columnist for Global News


https://globalnews.ca/news/4152433/commentary-kathleen-wynne-drags-donald-trump-into-ontario-politics/
RCO





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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

( ford has a good point , why is wynne allowed to run around the province and hold partisan events under the cover of government announcements all well refusing to officially call the election which triggers a new set of rules for the political parties )


WARMINGTON: Doug Ford won't engage in war of words with Wynne


Joe Warmington


Published:
April 18, 2018


Updated:
April 18, 2018 10:29 PM EDT


Filed Under:

Toronto SUN ›
News ›
Toronto & GTA ›


Ontario PC leader Doug Ford addresses supporters at a campaign rally at La Roya Banquet Hall in Ajax, Ont. on Wednesday April 18, 2018.Ernest Doroszuk/Toronto Sun/Postmedia Network



AJAX — Since Premier Kathleen Wynne already called Doug Ford a “Donald Trump” style “bully,” the PC Leader had a message for her of his own.

“I want to know why is she driving around the province on the back of the taxpayers’ money” while “we are driving around on our own dime?” Ford asked Wednesday evening.

His challenge was obvious. Why wait until May 9 to drop the writ for the June 7 election? Make the Liberal Party pay for her campaign events — especially when she’s taking nasty, personal shots.

“Lets get this show on the road,” said Ford.

Albeit unofficially, this election race is now very much underway after Wynne hammered Ford mercilessly earlier in the day.

“Doug Ford sounds like (U.S. President) Donald Trump and that’s because he is like Donald Trump. Ugly, vicious, a brand of politics that traffics in smears and lies,” said Wynne.

Calling Ford a “bully” Wynne also said “he’ll say anything about anyone at any time because, just like Trump, it’s all about him.”

With photographer Ernest Doroszuk, behind La Roya Banquet Hall on Westney Rd., we caught up with Ford as he exited the For The People bus to address the crowd inside that included Ajax PC candidate Rod Phillips.

As you can see from Doroszuk’s video, Ford laughed when I asked about Wynne’s war of words.


“I can you tell you one thing, she can focus on an election in another country. I am going to focus on the people of Ontario and jobs, reducing hydro rates and reducing taxes. That’s what I am going to focus on.”

Inside he told the crowd he’s “not going to make it personal.”

Just then, a cell phone in the crowd rang. “That’s Kathleen on the phone,” Doug teased to laughter. “Tell her I say hi.”

While not biting on Wynne’s Trump remarks, Ford was relentless on making it clear her government will be facing incredible scrutiny on their “spending, sole sourced and backroom deals” if he’s elected premier.

“We will work with the auditor general but we will go deeper,” Ford promised. “We will find the billions, who the Liberal insiders are and the Liberal elite. When we find out where your money has been spent we will make them accountable.”

Fighting words no question. But words of a bully? Or a typical response from a former Toronto city councillor who when it comes to “respect for taxpayers” has always been known as bullish?


Ontario PC leader Doug Ford meets with supporters after speaking at a campaign rally at La Roya Banquet Hall in Ajax, Ont. on Wednesday April 18, 2018. Ernest Doroszuk/Toronto Sun/Postmedia Network

ROOM FOR TWO JACKPOT WINNERS IN DURHAM REGION?

AJAX — When it comes to any casino plans, Doug Ford says as premier he’ll deal in both Ajax and Pickering rather than deal one out as the Liberals have done.

“We are going to sit down and meet with both groups,” Ford told the Toronto Sun just before his rally Wednesday evening. “I am sure we are going to work something out that is going to be positive for both Ajax and Pickering.”

This came on the same day PC Ajax candidate Rod Phillips and Quarter Racing Owners of Ontario President Bob Broadstock unveiled a proposal that allows Durham Live to move forward with it’s planning while keeping Ajax Downs and Casino Ajax and 1,700 jobs in place.

This would sustain Quarter Horse racing and maintain the $8-million annual contribution to taxpayers that has upset Mayor Steve Parish.

The concept would be akin to having a restaurant such as The Keg in one area and a McDonalds in another — both good restaurants that service a different clientele but co-exist and thrive nicely.

“The idea is to find a solution,” said Phillips. “Not pitting Ajax and Pickering against each other as what has happened with Kathleen Wynne and MPP Joe Dickson’s plan.”


Ontario PC candidate for Ajax, Rod Phillips, addresses supporters at a campaign rally at La Roya Banquet Hall in Ajax, Ont. on Wednesday April 18, 2018. Ernest Doroszuk/Toronto Sun/Postmedia Network

On Ajax closing, Phillips said: “We can’t let that happen.”

Ford said if elected premier in June he won’t let that happen — hinting there’s room for two jackpot winners.

“My door is always open to talk to both groups and at the end of the day they are both going to be happy,” he said


http://torontosun.com/news/loc.....with-wynne
RCO





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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
Actually, despite whatever TC is alluding to when he makes his off-handed assessment, Ford seems to be asking the right questions, and nobody else -- including the media -- is.

He keeps coming back to the economic record, but it's more than that. The questions he raises lead to the right kind of suggestions. The audit is a good example. So is the tax proposal for minimum wage earners.



the ford campaign has been more disciplined than one might of expected so far , no twitter or social media outbursts , no press conference meltdowns , just lots of successful events all over the province


on the other hand the liberals social media campaign has been amateur hour and wynne had a twitter meltdown yesterday when she called ford trump

its like she's desperate for attention and that was a way for her to make the news , by making her bizarre post about American politics and the Ontario election
RCO





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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

( the most liberal newspaper in Canada and known for being very anti ford , has now decided the few election promises he's even made so far don't add up , what a surprise , personally I don't see any of the promises he's made so far as being that difficult to implement , the audit or minimum wage tax credit are rather easy to do .)


Doug Ford’s election promises don’t add up


Ford’s messaging on his promised “audit” of Liberals’ spending hits a low point in political rhetoric, even for him.



Ontario PC Leader Doug Ford is making election promises and they don’t add up.


By Star Editorial Board

Wed., April 18, 2018


With the Ontario election just seven weeks away, we’re starting to get an idea of what a Doug Ford government would look like.

It’s a rabble-rousing brand of politics, to be sure. But it’s also mathematically challenged.

The Progressive Conservatives have not released a comprehensive election platform, nothing so clear as that. But their leader, who prides himself on his straight talk, has been racking up promises in the past few days. None of them, however, add up the way he claims they do:

•Ford says his first act as premier will be to fire the head of Hydro One.

Ford thinks the “six-million-dollar man,” Mayo Schmidt, makes too much money and plenty of Ontario voters probably agree with him.


What he’s counting on, bolstered by his own blustery statements about Schmidt and the Hydro board “laughing themselves to the bank” while customers struggle to pay their bills, is that fewer voters will know he can’t actually fire Schmidt. That’s because Hydro One was partly privatized two years ago.

What he can do is fire the board, appoint a new one, and have them fire Schmidt. The trouble with that, which he leaves out of his popular “the CEO is gone” speech, is that it will trigger a $10.7-million payout to Schmidt.

So this Ford promise would cost Ontarians more, not less.

•He’ll put an end to provincial income taxes for minimum-wage earners, and says that will save them $800.


That, too, sounds good until the slightest bit of rudimentary math is applied.

A full-time, minimum-wage earner makes $28,000. And thanks to government deductions and tax credits already in place, such a person pays nowhere near $800 in tax. So Ford can’t deliver on that promise.

In fact, his plan is even worse because there’s another piece to it. That’s his pledge to keep the hourly minimum wage at $14 instead of letting it rise to $15 next January, as the Liberal government plans.

That pay rise would be worth $2,000 for someone earning a full-time minimum wage. Ford’s plan would take far more money out of the pockets of minimum-wage workers than his income tax cut would put in — even if it did what he says it would.

•Ford will order an “audit” of the Wynne government.

Let’s set aside the fact that an election is the greatest form of accountability, so if Ford’s in a position to carry out this pledge, the people will already have spoken. Even aside from that, his messaging on this is a low point in political rhetoric, even for him.

Ford is connecting the promised audit of Wynne’s government to the four-month jail sentence handed to Dalton McGuinty’s former chief of staff, with suggestions that there should be “a few more Liberals joining David Livingston in jail.”

Wynne has called this an “ugly, vicious brand of politics that traffics in smears and lies.” She’s not wrong about that.

This audit promise isn’t about uncovering financial malfeasance; it’s about throwing old dirt around, hoping it will stick and lay the basis for one of the oldest political tricks in the book.

An auditor appointed to find what he has already deemed to be “reckless and inappropriate” spending would provide useful cover for whatever promises Ford, if elected, finds himself unable to deliver. Yes, he’ll say, we promised but the Liberals left us such a mess that we can’t possibly ...

•Ford’s latest pledge is to cut Ontario’s corporate tax rate “to stay competitive with neighbouring jurisdictions.”


Does he even know that Ontario already has the lowest corporate tax rate in Canada, at 11.5 per cent? We can’t say for sure, because he didn’t take any questions from the media on that.

Even measured by his own words, Ford isn’t making much sense. “For me,” he says, “nothing is more important than straight talk and keeping your word.”

The promises he’s made so far fall well short of that.

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/editorials/2018/04/18/doug-fords-election-promises-dont-add-up.html
Bugs





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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who signs a contract like that?

It seems to me that Wynne is in a similar position to the Democrats in the USA -- every accusation she makes about Ford reminds people of how truly awful her government has been.
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RCO wrote:


Wynne has called this an “ugly, vicious brand of politics that traffics in smears and lies.” She’s not wrong about that.

This audit promise isn’t about uncovering financial malfeasance; it’s about throwing old dirt around, hoping it will stick and lay the basis for one of the oldest political tricks in the book.


The Government has argued their accounting practices have been beyond reproach during their tenure in government while battling with the Auditor General and the Fiscal Accountability Officer on those very practices, a third party auditor will either vindicate them or not.

If Charles Sousa is confident in his departments competence he should be holding a press conference today welcoming any audit and stating that all an audit would revel is Doug Fords vindictive nature and disrespect of taxpayer money after it was found that the budget is in perfect order.

By damning a third party audit you look guilty.

Using the Patrick Brown yard stick of guilt or innocence;
Dalton McGuinty stepped down after it was revealed that there were tens of thousands of emails pertaining to the canceled power plants that were not disclosed

His chief of staff is heading to prison due to the disposition of emails and destruction of public records.

One could argue that it was a coincidence pertaining to the timing of the resignation, however it could also be argued the other way.

I wouldn't consider it throwing old dirt around if we still don't have resolution on the greater overall issue,

Sure, someone is in prison because they destroyed information the question I would like answered is simply what was in those emails that was so damning you were willing to go to Prison over?

A third party going in to evaluated the books is exactly what any new government should be promising to do.

RCO wrote:
An auditor appointed to find what he has already deemed to be “reckless and inappropriate” spending would provide useful cover for whatever promises Ford, if elected, finds himself unable to deliver. Yes, he’ll say, we promised but the Liberals left us such a mess that we can’t possibly ...

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/editorials/2018/04/18/doug-fords-election-promises-dont-add-up.html



I would argue that would be true if the Government wasn't enjoying record revenue;
If Ford repeals all new spending in the 2018 and reallocates some of the infrastructure budget for non-shovel ready programs slated for 2018 he has about 11b dollars of "found" money.

8b if he wants to present a balanced budget along with whatever promises he has in store, before we even begin to discuss cutting dollar one from any existing 2017 budget.

This isn't 2003 where revenue isn't popping and you need a way to make the books look even worse so you can walk back your spending promises.

The money is there, any auditor that says it isn't would mean way larger ramifications.
Bugs





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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Toronto Star wrote:
Quote:
Ford is connecting the promised audit of Wynne’s government to the four-month jail sentence handed to Dalton McGuinty’s former chief of staff, with suggestions that there should be “a few more Liberals joining David Livingston in jail.”

Wynne has called this an “ugly, vicious brand of politics that traffics in smears and lies.” She’s not wrong about that.

This audit promise isn’t about uncovering financial malfeasance; it’s about throwing old dirt around, hoping it will stick and lay the basis for one of the oldest political tricks in the book.


Wait a second -- why is this uncalled for? Why is it distasteful to point out the Livingstone case? It's a disgusting chapter, and it deserves sunlight. Why was it Livingstone the took the dive rather than the ones who gave him the order? There are questions here that were not explored in Court.

This pose of stuffy hauteur, of this being the kind of dirt that is beneath the notice of the truly good people of Ontario ... is crazy. The justification for the police not arresting politicians is that it is up to the political process to discipline politicians.

So this is our chance!

Facing these charges in front of a crowd that hasn't been culled of dissidents is exactly what accountability is all about. She should take a public pasting for wha she's done.
We should come out of this election understanding that we never want another government like the McGuinty-Wynne one ever again! Regardless of party ...
RCO





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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cosmostein wrote:
RCO wrote:


Wynne has called this an “ugly, vicious brand of politics that traffics in smears and lies.” She’s not wrong about that.

This audit promise isn’t about uncovering financial malfeasance; it’s about throwing old dirt around, hoping it will stick and lay the basis for one of the oldest political tricks in the book.


The Government has argued their accounting practices have been beyond reproach during their tenure in government while battling with the Auditor General and the Fiscal Accountability Officer on those very practices, a third party auditor will either vindicate them or not.

If Charles Sousa is confident in his departments competence he should be holding a press conference today welcoming any audit and stating that all an audit would revel is Doug Fords vindictive nature and disrespect of taxpayer money after it was found that the budget is in perfect order.

By damning a third party audit you look guilty.

Using the Patrick Brown yard stick of guilt or innocence;
Dalton McGuinty stepped down after it was revealed that there were tens of thousands of emails pertaining to the canceled power plants that were not disclosed

His chief of staff is heading to prison due to the disposition of emails and destruction of public records.

One could argue that it was a coincidence pertaining to the timing of the resignation, however it could also be argued the other way.

I wouldn't consider it throwing old dirt around if we still don't have resolution on the greater overall issue,

Sure, someone is in prison because they destroyed information the question I would like answered is simply what was in those emails that was so damning you were willing to go to Prison over?

A third party going in to evaluated the books is exactly what any new government should be promising to do.

RCO wrote:
An auditor appointed to find what he has already deemed to be “reckless and inappropriate” spending would provide useful cover for whatever promises Ford, if elected, finds himself unable to deliver. Yes, he’ll say, we promised but the Liberals left us such a mess that we can’t possibly ...

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/editorials/2018/04/18/doug-fords-election-promises-dont-add-up.html



I would argue that would be true if the Government wasn't enjoying record revenue;
If Ford repeals all new spending in the 2018 and reallocates some of the infrastructure budget for non-shovel ready programs slated for 2018 he has about 11b dollars of "found" money.

8b if he wants to present a balanced budget along with whatever promises he has in store, before we even begin to discuss cutting dollar one from any existing 2017 budget.

This isn't 2003 where revenue isn't popping and you need a way to make the books look even worse so you can walk back your spending promises.

The money is there, any auditor that says it isn't would mean way larger ramifications.



well the liberals try and smear ford over his desire for an audit of queens park finances


I've seen reports online the liberals in 2003 did something similar and there was an audit back then although it hasn't been widely reported and I'd like to find more proof this happened before commenting more


but if they really did something similar in 2003 , its purely partisan for them to criticise ford for wanting to do the same


( according to a star article there was an audit in 2003 by the liberals )

Post-election audits are not unusual at Queen’s Park.

When the Liberals first took office in 2003, they hired former provincial auditor Erik Peters, who had retired two weeks earlier, to examine the books of the just-defeated Conservative government.


https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2018/04/17/ford-promises-outside-audit-of-wynnes-liberals-if-he-wins-june-election.html
RCO





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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

( the consensus seems to be that wynne's attacks on ford are desperate / dumb and just bad strategy to begin with )


Wynne squanders golden opportunity by throwing ‘Trump card’ early

By Tasha Kheiriddin. Published on Apr 19, 2018 4:52am


Cartoon by Steve Nease


Instead of criticizing Ford for bashing elites like the Donald, (Wynne) should emphasize her positive message of helping less fortunate Ontarians.

With the Ontario election 50 days away, and the provincial Liberals trailing badly in the polls, Premier Kathleen Wynne did the inevitable: she played the Trump card. While making a health care announcement at Sunnybrook Hospital in Toronto, the Liberal Premier compared PC leader Doug Ford to the US President. “Doug Ford sounds like Donald Trump, and that’s because he is like Donald Trump. He believes in (an) ugly vicious brand of politics that traffics in smears and lies. He’ll say anything about anyone at any time.”

In case anyone missed her point, Wynne continued — for three long minutes. “Just like Trump, it’s all about him… That’s how Trump campaigned in 2016 and that’s how Ford is campaigning right now.” Wynne went on to advise that “…just like Donald Trump, there’s only one way to deal with this kind of behaviour. You have to stand up to him, and you have to name the behaviour for what it is, because that is how you deal with a bully.”

Ford’s response to this dramatic diatribe was predictable. At a campaign event in Cobourg, he chuckled, shook his head and said “Desperate, desperate… Kathleen Wynne, she can fight an election in another country. I am focusing in on the people of Ontario… I’m focusing on jobs in Ontario.”

Bam. For once, Ford wasn’t the one shooting from the lip. Not like in 2014, when he infamously told the staff of a group home for autistic teens, “You’ve ruined the community… My heart goes out to kids with autism. But no one told me they’d be leaving the house.”

When confronted with these comments in the current provincial campaign, Ford denied making them, retorting that “You’re going to hear a lot of lies, desperate lies from Kathleen Wynne.”

This served as one of the inspirations for Wynne’s Trump comparison. “We saw it this week when Doug lied — flat out lied — about his appalling comments about families living with autism, lacking the courage to admit the truth and own up to his own words. He took the coward’s way out and he denied the undeniable.”

News flash: politicians lie. And that includes Kathleen Wynne. Ontarians remember when she coined the term “stretch goal” – a euphemism for lying about reducing auto insurance premiums in 2016. Then there were the multiple promises her party did not keep, on everything from taxes (they have gone up), to deficits (they’re back), to hydro bills (they will go up again in a few years, after the government trumpeted their short-term reduction). In most voters’ books, these are lies as well.

Wynne likely thought that by comparing Ford to Trump, she would help consolidate the left of center vote behind the Liberals. What better way to do it than convince progressives that they risk turning Queen’s Park into Trump Tower if they don’t get behind one candidate – ie, her?

But the flaw in this thinking is twofold. First, the Liberals are not polling that far ahead of the NDP, making NDP leader Andrea Horwath potentially an equally attractive anti-Ford option. Second, NDP voters aren’t necessarily Liberal switchers; outside the GTA, in rural and exurban Ontario, many could just as easily swing PC on a populist wave of change.

Instead of fighting that wave, Wynne needs to figure out her own way to surf it. It wouldn’t be impossible: most of her policies are geared to lower and middle income voters. She herself is not “elite” – unlike Ford, she was not born into a wealthy family, and worked her way up from school trustee to Premier. Instead of criticizing Ford for bashing elites like the Donald, she should emphasize her positive message of helping less fortunate Ontarians.

The desire for change isn’t an insurmountable obstacle either. Back in 2010, 76 per cent of voters said they wanted change as well – yet Wynne’s predecessor Dalton McGuinty eked out a minority in the 2011 vote. Instead of opining that “[Ford] may be Donald Trump, but I’m not Hillary Clinton” – an association voters are now sure to make – she should acknowledge that she’s behind and identify with underdogs who actually pulled off a victory.

And finally, there’s the “give them rope” strategy. It worked in 2008, when PC leader John Tory’s pledge to fund all religious schools backfired in spectacular fashion. It worked again in 2014, when Tory’s successor Tim Hudak promised to axe 100,000 public sector jobs, handing Wynne an unexpected majority, at a time when most pollsters thought her government was past its best-before date. With Ford’s history as a loose cannon, Wynne should have followed the same strategy – be patient and let himself shoot himself in the foot. With 50 days to go, there would probably be ample opportunity.

Instead, Wynne chose the low road of personal attacks, casting herself as the victim of bullying and etching in everyone’s mind a replay of the 2016 U.S. contest. The only winner here – apart from Ford – are the political cartoonists. Let the memes begin.



https://ipolitics.ca/2018/04/19/wynne-squanders-golden-opportunity-by-throwing-trump-card-early/
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