Home FAQ Search Memberlist User Groups Register Login   

BloggingTories.ca Forum IndexBloggingTories.ca Forum Index
    Index     FAQ     Search     Register     Login         JOIN THE DISCUSSION - CLICK HERE      


Goto page 1, 2  Next  

Post new topic   Reply to topic Page 1 of 2
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Bugs





Joined: 16 Dec 2009
Posts: 6034
Reputation: 290.8
votes: 8

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:00 am    Post subject: Research shows that homosexuality is a stage Reply with quote

I hope this gets read ... and understood. It turns out that "homosexuality" is mostly a stage that a lot of people go through, rather than a genetically fixed identity.

Quote:
... Take, for instance, what is probably still the most prominent accomplishment of the LGBT movement in the United States: the redefinition of marriage in Obergefell v Hodges. In this decision, Justice Anthony Kennedy declared that the plaintiffs’ homosexual “sexual orientation” could not change. Homosexuality was, to borrow Kennedy’s words, “their immutable nature.” As a result, practicing homosexuals were only capable of marrying members of their own sex.

The Evidence Says Same-Sex Attraction Frequently Changes
While many doubt the truth of Kennedy’s statement, almost everyone I meet, liberal or conservative, tends to assume, like Carlson, that the majority of expert opinion somehow backs Kennedy’s claim. Indeed, Kennedy did cite a partisan brief put together by politically active members of the American Psychological Association.

But although this brief confidently combated “stereotype-based rationales that the Equal Protection Clause was designed to prohibit” and was at pains to point out that “most” of the studies and literature reviews it cited had been published in “reputable, peer-reviewed academic journals,” it did not dare to assert that sexual orientation was immutable.

The reason was very simple. There is not only no scientific evidence that sexual orientation is immutable, there is conclusive scientific evidence that most people who experience exclusive same-sex attraction end up developing an interest in the opposite sex over time.

This is so well established by now that scholars are busy publishing methods to measure frequency of sexual orientation change in massive longitudinal studies of youth and young adults. (I.e., How many times in nine years can we expect a homosexual sexual orientation to change? Is the change associated with lifestyle habits? Who changes more frequently: males or females?)

That basic fact was already settled science when Obergefell came before the Supreme Court. Half a dozen rigorous studies could be cited from the late 1990s and early 2000s, but the most noteworthy probably remains a Cornell-led study published in 2007.

A 1 Percent Chance of Consistent Same-Sex Attraction
In this study, Dr. Rich Savin-Williams examined a representative sample of more than 12,000 American youth, following each from the age of 16 to 22. Rather than rely on an individual’s reconstruction of his or her past based on current identity, researchers met with subjects three times throughout the six-year period. Each time, they asked individuals (via a computer, to protect privacy) whether they had had a romantic attraction to a member of the opposite or same sex since their last interview.

For instance, 17-year-old males were asked if, in the past year, they had had a romantic attraction to another male or female. About 1.5 percent reported only having a romantic attraction to other males. Five years later, when that 1.5 percent were asked about their romantic attractions since last interview, the overwhelming majority (70 percent) reported a 180-degree flip in their sexual orientation—they only had romantic feelings for women.

Similarly, among females, about 40 percent switched from exclusive same-sex attraction to exclusive opposite-sex attraction. Most of the rest (45 percent of the total) reported they had feelings for both men and women. Only 1 percent of women who, at 17, reported a full year of exclusive same-sex attraction reported a similar experience in the five years that followed.

Leftist judges have been bamboozled into basing their legal analysis on the assumption that if an 18-year-old woman has exclusive same-sex attraction, some form of same-sex commitment is her only path to “marriage” because her condition is “immutable.” But, on expert evidence, her condition has only a 1 percent chance of lasting five years!
[....]
http://thefederalist.com/2018/.....3-83873765


It's a big deal.
queenmandy85





Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 332
Reputation: 108.9
votes: 2
Location: Saskatoon

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The last paragraph, referring to "leftist judges" triggered my skeptic metre. The article presents a lot of claims but no evidence. How many of these subjects were gay as opposed to bisexual. Sexual orientation is a spectrum with a broad band of bi between hetero and gay.
Also, what have judges got to do with adult sexual relations. Having the government determine who a person can fall in love with or marry, is the worst aspect of socialism. A person's sexual orientation is nobody's business but their own.
Bugs





Joined: 16 Dec 2009
Posts: 6034
Reputation: 290.8
votes: 8

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The article reports on a large-scale longitudinal study conducted by a reputable university. All this "spectrum" stuff is only one way of looking at it. You probably were taught that vocabulary somewhere by a paid agent of the state or the corporate world.

The people on your side of this question often act as if "the binary" -- that is, two sexes -- is something to be overthrown. They don't say why.

95%+ of citzens see themselves as part of "the binary". That's just a fact. And yet we are making social policy to "benefit" the 5%! Of course, you can feel good about it because it probably doesn't impact your life one bit -- but later generations? They bear the burden.

What is "the binary"? It's a system of social relations that is part of kinship. There was a time when families were not the irrational aggregations they are now. They were social units of both production and consumption, usually made of a mother and her children (a matrilineal unit),

Kinship systems divide people by sex, first, and second, by generation, and each category has its basic rights and obligations. For instance, when a person kills some game, how that carcus is divided up, and who the different parts are eaten by, is often determined by these patterns -- seen as "custom" and perhaps enforced by supernatural forces. This is a human universal.

The "binary" isn't the oppression of one sex by another, and these academic clowns pretend. It's a way of divvying up the work of society. Obligations are generally balanced, it's simply that the reciprocity they guarantee is generational. One takes care of one's parents, in their dotage, for example -- because they cared for you but also, because of your relationship requires it, as enforced by the public opinion of the larger group.

It doesn't come from nowhere. The "spectrum" comes from 'nowhere. Where's the studies that show that?
Toronto Centre





Joined: 12 Feb 2011
Posts: 1225
Reputation: 120.8
votes: 4
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

queenmandy85 wrote:
The last paragraph, referring to "leftist judges" triggered my skeptic metre. The article presents a lot of claims but no evidence.


As it should have.

TBH , I have no idea what they are going after , and doing it with such small numbers. 1.5% of respondants , then 75% of those to prove a point? Using 180/126 people out of 12,000 ?

But more importantly , follow the money. Who funds this? Who are they targetting if anyone specific at all? Targetting everyone or those with a bias?

And from there you have answers that can lead one to dismiss the manufactured results.

Mercer Family Foundation . Supporters of Breitbart and Government Accountability Institute , along with Brent Bozell. Enough said really.

All categorized as far right and almost into extreme right according to fact check.

Maybe next time we can chat about flat earth society sine theres reams of info on the internet about their validity.
oi vey.
queenmandy85





Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 332
Reputation: 108.9
votes: 2
Location: Saskatoon

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote "Of course, you can feel good about it because it probably doesn't impact your life one bit -- but later generations? They bear the burden. "
How does who a person falls in love with affect later generations? As I said, this is socialism at its worst.
What is really going to impact later generations is global warming.
You seem to hold a romantic view of the middle ages.
Bugs





Joined: 16 Dec 2009
Posts: 6034
Reputation: 290.8
votes: 8

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fall in love? There's a movie waiting to be made ... romantic fiction.

What's who you fall in love with ... got to do with social policy? What role should education play in that?

You look on this as a moral issue, and make your remark accordingly.

But why should boys grow up under a stigma? Why do they have to consent in being treated like a potential rapist to get an education? White male participation in school is in radical decline probably as a result. Why doesn't your moral compass extend that far?

My view is not based on moral feelings, at least not in the sense that I am disgusted by homosexuals or transsexuals. It's based on the idea that you don't make social policy for the minority. Left-handers are anywhere from 10-15% of the population, so the world is built for right-handers. (It's getting better.) Doors can only be made to open one way, and that way will be convenient for one group and inconvenient for the other. So what do we do? We ignore left-handers.

Homosexuals are a smaller group, and transsexuals are far smaller again. And when we learn that a lot of so-called homosexuality is a stage people go through before they get serious about their health and their life, there is even less reason to worry about their 'rights' to 'equal' treatment.
Toronto Centre





Joined: 12 Feb 2011
Posts: 1225
Reputation: 120.8
votes: 4
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:

What's who you fall in love with ... got to do with social policy?

Fairness under any Govt'l Acts for one.
Fairness under the OHRC for two.
Quote:

What role should education play in that?

To teach fairness , one should be taught about equality and fairness.

Quote:
But why should boys grow up under a stigma?

They shouldnt.

Thats why we teach them better now.

We have rid ourselves of the boys should only be strong, not to cry, to persevere under any circumstances that we used to hold.

Ya know, those old canards from the 60's and earlier.
Quote:
Why do they have to consent in being treated like a potential rapist to get an education?
They don't.

Good thing there arent any attempts to back this ridiculous assertion and we can put this down to a made up scenario.
Quote:
White male participation in school is in radical decline probably as a result.


Probably.

In other words you made that up. You do know that education is compulsory in this country up to 16.
Soooo....can you show us this probably thing exists , and of course linking it as a reason ( doesnt even have to be #1 reason) boys have radically declined attending school?
Take your time, it will be a very hard , nay impossible, thing to extract for us.
Quote:

Why doesn't your moral compass extend that far?

Moral compass? Yours is so skewed that this attempt to impugn anothers morality is laughable.
Toronto Centre





Joined: 12 Feb 2011
Posts: 1225
Reputation: 120.8
votes: 4
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Doors can only be made to open one way, and that way will be convenient for one group and inconvenient for the other. So what do we do?


Really?
Quote:

Jako Design 4" H x 4" W Double Action Spring Hinge
$22.99
Wayfair.ca
Free shipping

Note.,... free shipping !
Quote:

How to Get an Interior Door to Swing Both Ways
http://homeguides.sfgate.com/i.....95112.html
queenmandy85





Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 332
Reputation: 108.9
votes: 2
Location: Saskatoon

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahh, Bugs. You brought up the issue of men being accused of rape. There is a simple solution. First, there is a document called a marriage licence. If you don't have one with a partner, don't engage in sexual activity. After that, wait until your partner and you come to a mutual agreement to engage in sexual activity at a time you are both sober.
Secondly, regarding "social policy", that is a bolshevik idea. What schools need to teach is manners. Be nice to people and respect them and when it comes to sexual orientation, schools need to teach the rule of mind your own business and, again, be nice and be supportive.
Like me, I have no doubt there are LGBTQ people in your family. You probably are not aware of it because you may not be presenting a welcoming vibe.
queenmandy85





Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 332
Reputation: 108.9
votes: 2
Location: Saskatoon

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TC, I know lots of people who swing both ways. :D
Toronto Centre





Joined: 12 Feb 2011
Posts: 1225
Reputation: 120.8
votes: 4
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its a funny conundrum insofar as those morally outraged or vehemently aghast at gays tend to turn out to be closet queens themselves.

We have seen the hypocrisy so man times over. Just sayin'
queenmandy85





Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 332
Reputation: 108.9
votes: 2
Location: Saskatoon

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm just amazed that anyone cares about other people's sexual orientation. After ten years of being my Department's liaison with the University's Pride Centre and being on the University Provost's Advisory Committee on LGBTQ issues, I have to call the article quoted by Bugs as specious. The last paragraph reveals it is politically based and the journal has dubious credibility. I would make a calculated guess that the Federalist cherry picked the claims. It speaks of evidence without revealing what the evidence was or who conducted the study.
In my own experience, I would guess I have known close to a thousand members of the LGBTQ community. I have never known a gay man or lesbian to change orientation. I have known bisexual people to have partners in both genders and gay people who used opposite gender relationships as cover to avoid family issues.
Bugs





Joined: 16 Dec 2009
Posts: 6034
Reputation: 290.8
votes: 8

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, you two apparently care and what has any of this drivel has anything to do with social policy? The people I am talking about are being compelled to live a big chunk of 'their social lives in an organization that treats them as if they are (potential) rapists.

What's fair about that? What the hell has "fairness" got to do with what our courts dish up? It doesn't even claim to be being fair. It means to make up for past unfairness. Otherwise, all you would have to do is stop recognizing all these differences in law.

And why are we making such a fuss over something that's just a stage? According to the study, there is only a negligible chance that a 16 year old will maintain a homosexual identity over six years! That's the good news.

So don't worry, mom, about that son of yours who "came out" -- he's likely to get over it. He's probably fighting his inner hetero right now!

Why don't we have more left-handed can openers? Or left-handed skill saws? Why do lefties pay a premium? You could make up a whole story about how left-handers are oppressed in a right-handed society, if you want. But left-handers have more common sense than that.

You could learn from their example.
queenmandy85





Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 332
Reputation: 108.9
votes: 2
Location: Saskatoon

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote: "And why are we making such a fuss over something that's just a stage? According to the study, there is only a negligible chance that a 16 year old will maintain a homosexual identity over six years! That's the good news."

Why is that good news?

"The people I am talking about are being compelled to live a big chunk of 'their social lives in an organization that treats them as if they are (potential) rapists. "

You have to explain this. Who is "being compelled to live a big chunk of 'their social lives in an organization that treats them as if they are (potential) rapists. " What organization?

How many gay men or women do you know personally who have stopped being gay? Not bisexuals, but gay.

"...what has any of this drivel has anything to do with social policy?"

"What the hell has "fairness" got to do with what our courts dish up?"
Again, what are you referring to? What court case?

As for left handed tools, you have pin pointed a market. You should take advantage of it. You do believe in free enterprise, don't you?

Bugs wrote "It's based on the idea that you don't make social policy for the minority.

But earlier he wrote "...what has any of this drivel has anything to do with social policy?" I'm not sure what you mean. You brought up social policy. It has an NDP tone to it.
Bugs





Joined: 16 Dec 2009
Posts: 6034
Reputation: 290.8
votes: 8

PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it good to be gay? Is it something that should be encouraged?

Students go to schools in which they are taught that previous generations of men were racist homophobes who treated their women like sex objects. The basic conclusion is that the good half of humanity is justified in treating the other half as potential rapists because that's what their fathers and forebearers were.

This sex-ed is set by Queens Park, and is imposed upon the students without letting parents know the details. Trust me, it is about creating different expectations about sex. My opponents treat this is simply a moral issue, one of tolerating one more variation in society. But that's a mis-reading of the facts. The fact is the the 'cultural maps' having to do with marriage, families and children are being ripped up and replaced with a system of stigmas.

This is the imposition of a whole new sexual morality based on sexual identity and preference. It doesn't come from hordes of students demanding special washrooms for transsexuals. It comes from the top. That's what I mean by social policy in this case.

FYI I have hung around socially with a downtown gay crowd, back when cocaine was still being sniffed rather than smoked. I saw lots of screwed up people, caught up in a whirlwind of "meaningless fun" but deeply unhappy. I had a striking girlfriend at the time who got "us" invited everywhere, and I know a lot of those gays had a hard time repressing their inner heterosexual.

The problem is the deviants have become attached to their sexual preferences as a cause. They stick with it, but let me tell you, there are few things as sad as a 50-something gay guy trying to pick up some fresh 14-year-old. But before the 20th century, lots of people had a homo thing going once or twice in their lives, and they were tolerated because by far the largest number of homosexual men come from the upper classes. The term "homosexual" wasn't even in use until the late 19th century. Before that, they were "mollies".

What both queenmandy and TC are ignoring is that this is a large-scale longitudinal study, the best available. And it indicates that homosexuality, far from being a community or a life-style, is an episode in most people's lives, and nothing more. Yet the social justice argument assumes that sexual preference is immutable, and once you wander from the stern responsibilities of 'heterosexual marriage, one will forever be a member of the LGBTQWERTY "community". But it turns out not to be the case.
Post new topic   Reply to topic Page 1 of 2

Goto page 1, 2  Next  


 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum


Research shows that homosexuality is a stage

phpBBCopyright 2001, 2005 phpBB