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cosmostein





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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toronto Centre wrote:
cosmostein wrote:
I have clearly missed something?
I wasn't aware the PCs were out of money?

It was reported earlier today (radio) that if the injunction goes ahead the party will be in a bad way and have less money that the Liberals going forward.

The PB fiasco and now the injunction has cost them dearly.


Understood, thanks for clarifying.
Still seems odd?

Sure, its expensive but its not likely to burn through 20m dollars of cash;
That 20m also assumes they haven't raised a dollar from January till now.

Going by memory the PCs spent less than 10m in both 2014 and 2011 so even if you drop 5m on whatever nonsense occurs, its not likely to cripple them in the context of an election.

As I recall the OLP had around 9m in cash to close off the year and will get half of the 5 million as part of the new per vote subsidies this year (with the PCs getting half of 4m).

For the PCs to drop below the OLP in cash it would need to be a nasty multi-million dollar affair or the fundraising numbers would have had to have been cooked.
Toronto Centre





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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Help me out ... doesnt $6M debt come out of the funds raised putting at around $14M?

The venue cost lost (injunction) means almost a half million for rent alone is lost, then add up all other costs ....and ...

Yea, the numbers dont seem to match up. But it was a PC member who was talking , AM640 by the way, and said money would be a problem if the court grants it.

Your memory is probably better than what I can find so yeah, numbers seem skewed.
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toronto Centre wrote:
Help me out ... doesnt $6M debt come out of the funds raised putting at around $14M?

The venue cost lost (injunction) means almost a half million for rent alone is lost, then add up all other costs ....and ...

Yea, the numbers dont seem to match up. But it was a PC member who was talking , AM640 by the way, and said money would be a problem if the court grants it.

Your memory is probably better than what I can find so yeah, numbers seem skewed.


My memory is okay but better I confirm LOL.

Lets even call it 2m rather than half a million and whatever else;
Its a big number but its shouldn't be crippling (In theory)

For reference this is my best construction of the debt/fundraising timeline.

The PCs exited the last election with around 7m in debt;
That portion was wiped out in the middle of 2016;

http://www.lfpress.com/2017/01.....llion-debt

And in the process raised 16m and change in 2016;

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/ontario-tories-political-donation-record/article35170440/

Then when the new rules came into effect the PCs cleared around 7m in 2017 when you factor in donations + per vote subsidy

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/.....-1.4482761

Then I believe the parties get their first half of the per vote subsidiarity toward the start of the year (2018) (the PCs would get around 2m in change) along with whatever they raised organically between Q4 2017 and Today.

Lets assume for the sake of making the math simple the PC party raised no money between the last election and the start of 2016;

The debt was 7m, they raised 16m in 2016, 7m in 2017, and at least 2m in 2018 which should leave them with 18m and change before we factor in any money prior to 2016 or any money fundraised (IE Not per vote subsidy) Q4 2017 onward.

Even if we minus the fictitious 2m number I came up with above its still around 16m and change after the potential brawl for all surrounding leadership,

As to where they stack against the Liberals? Not really sure.
Bugs





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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All this speculation about money is, no doubt, fun ... but isn't the real question have to do with the chaos that reigns in the PC party. How can anybody trust the results of the election?

A major part of the membership has been cut out of the voting in the most clumsy and awkward way. But if they'll cheat the one way, why wouldn't they cheat other ways?

Who are you voting for? What are the positions? How can you make an informed choice?

The membership is being squeezed out of the picture. Happy with that?
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:

Who are you voting for? What are the positions? How can you make an informed choice?

The membership is being squeezed out of the picture. Happy with that?


This has been one of the biggest challenges of this whole escapade.
Who stands for what?

The three potential winners have all sat back and said that what Patrick Brown laid out is all fine and good but will add to it.

Add to it with what? Who is going to cut my taxes? Who is going to investigate why the Premier and Energy Minister resigned after the contempt motion? Who is going to balance the budget and when? And is anyone going to pick up the mantle Frank Klees dropped when he left the party acknowledging the HST was a huge fiscal boon for the Province and the PST could be reduced to 5% to reflect that? And who is committed to Nuclear and who is not?

What exactly are we voting for?
Essentially we are voting on a resume and no platform.
Bugs





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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When this is over, I hope something can be done to rescue the party from whatever has befallen it. I think legitimacy is a real problem -- I don't that this is something our politically attuned courts can bestow.

We have three people whose main claim to name recognition in the contest are due to other people. One was the wife of a successful politician, one was the brother of another successful politician, and the third is the daughter of a past PM, as well as the wife of an American scion of fortunes.

The province is in bad shape, and it requires a leader that has thought about this long and hard has a plan and some steel in his soul. It seems to me that we need a superb politician at a time like these, not a neophyte borrowing another person's prestige.
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It will be interesting to see if the Budget will be re-visited;

The NDP appears to be gaining on the left flank of the OLP and the center and center right appear to be firmly in the PC camp (granted there has only been one poll since Ford was selected leader).

The OLP would be wise to toss some candy at fiscal conservatives
RCO





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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wynne defends Ontario’s deficit spending flip-flop

By Marieke Walsh. Published on Mar 13, 2018 1:13pm


Ontario Premier Kathleen Wynne speaking to journalists March 13, 2018. iPolitics/Marieke Walsh.


A week after her finance minister announced Ontario would again start deficit spending, Ontario Premier Kathleen Wynne defended the move saying the “betrayal” to voters would be not investing in their care.

Last year her government heralded a return to balance in the provincial budget and projected balanced budgets for the next two years, then on Wednesday, Ontario Finance Minister Charles Sousa announced a u-turn.

“In order to invest more in hospitals, mental health, long-term care and child care across the province, Ontario is choosing to run a deficit,” the province’s press release read.

Asked on Tuesday whether her government risked eroding public trust with the move, Wynne disagreed.

“The betrayal of those needs and stepping back from those needs and not acknowledging that there is a need to put the conditions in place so that people can care for one another and that government’s part of that, that care reality — I think to step back from that would be irresponsible and so that’s why we’ve made this decision.”

The provincial Liberals didn’t attach a number to their deficit spending, but said it would be no more than one per cent of GDP. That means Ontario could go close to $8 billion into the red when the budget is tabled on March 28. Ontario’s GDP is close to $795 billion.

In tabling last year’s balanced budget the province said economic growth and getting back in the black “for the foreseeable future,” showed “Ontario is once again in a strong and healthy position.”

In spite of last year’s focus on balance, Wynne maintained that this year’s budget wasn’t a pre-emptive response to the provincial Conservatives’ tack to the right.

“That conversation had been going on for some time,”she said.

New Progressive Conservative Leader Doug Ford has pitched himself as a bottom-line man.

“We’re staunch fiscal conservatives,” he told CP24 on Monday. “The only way we take care of people is by taking care of our finances.”

Last week provincial NDP Leader Andrea Horwath called the Liberal’s coming fiscal plan a “candy store budget.”


https://ipolitics.ca/2018/03/13/wynne-defends-ontarios-deficit-spending-flip-flop/
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RCO wrote:
Wynne defends Ontario’s deficit spending flip-flop

A week after her finance minister announced Ontario would again start deficit spending, Ontario Premier Kathleen Wynne defended the move saying the “betrayal” to voters would be not investing in their care.

https://ipolitics.ca/2018/03/13/wynne-defends-ontarios-deficit-spending-flip-flop/


That is in a nutshell why I am almost forced to vote PC;
The Province is spending record amounts of money on the back of record tax revenue and record government revenue and they need to "invest in my care"?

Lets say we went back to 2013 spending levels;
The masses were not dying in the streets, chaos did not reign supreme, and the government was certainly providing no shortage of programs.

They spent $127.6 billion in 2013, five short years ago.
The Government is projecting around 140 billion dollars in revenue for 2018

If we returned to the spending levels of 2013 (Which was still insane) we would be sporting over a 12 billion dollar surplus which would at least make a dent in the now over 300 billion dollar debt the Province has.
RCO





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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

( the liberals also quietly prorogued the legislature so they can do yet another throne speech , which I think is there 3rd in last 4 years , purely crazy . there should be a rule or law that a government is only allowed 1 throne speech a term and a 2nd if absolutely necessary . what wynne's doing should not be allowed under our parliamentary law , its purely partisan and a waste of government resources and time )



David Akin 🇨🇦‏Verified account @davidakin · 19h19 hours ago

Ontario Premier @Kathleen_Wynne does a snap prorogue (House is not sitting right now) Throne Speech set for Monday. Ontario Liberals doing whatever they can with a June election looming.





Rachel Curran‏ @reicurran · 10h10 hours ago

Rachel Curran Retweeted Kathleen Wynne

What Kathleen Wynne is actually doing is using public resources to draft and market her campaign platform (aka 'Throne Speech'), a matter of weeks before the election date. Totally shameless, but entirely unsurprising with this Liberal government.






Kathleen Wynne‏Verified account @Kathleen_Wynne

Follow Follow @Kathleen_Wynne


There will be a Throne Speech on March 19. This speech will set out our government’s plan for care and opportunity. We're making deliberate choices to invest in the care and the services that the people of Ontario rely on.
Bugs





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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The more I see her lashing around, trying to save her situation, the more I have witnessed as the Progressive Conservatives bend over backwards to prove they are unfit to rule ... the more it is driven home to me. There's nothing she can do!

I can easily accept that its a minority that simply shake their heads in disgust at the selling a piece of Hydro to hide her lies; the outrage had already been dissipated over the gas plant blunders. And then came raising the minimum wage so dramatically.

Where are the enthusiastic supporters?

It isn't working. If she had any class, she'd commit seppuku (Japanese ritual self-disembowelment) on the grass outside Parliament, where she wouldn't make a mess.
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The theme is pretty clear;
The OLP is making the same bet the Federal Liberals did in 2015, that people just don't care about balanced budgets, that its not longer a benchmark of sound governance.

There is no reason the budget cannot be balanced, in that regard Doug Ford is correct.
If you can't balance a budget on record revenue you won't be able to do so if there is a slow in revenue.

Seemingly the Liberals appear to be leaning into that comfortably but spending on "our care".
RCO





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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

( wynne is desperately trying to defend her crazy decision to have a throne speech weeks before the election call , I personally can't recall any government that had so many throne speeches in one single term , its crazy and should not even be allowed )


Wynne defends throne speech decision as opponents accuse her of trying to hit reset button


The Canadian Press
Published Friday, March 16, 2018 3:03PM EDT



Ontario's premier is defending her decision to prorogue the legislature and deliver a throne speech next week, saying it's the only way her government can lay out its priorities in the lead-up to the spring election.

Kathleen Wynne denied the move is an attempt to wipe the slate clean before the June 7 vote or get a head start on the campaign, as her political opponents have suggested.

"The throne speech is one of the few ways that we actually have to lay out the government priorities and so that's why we had to do this technical prorogation," she said at an event at Humber College's Lakeshore campus in Toronto on Friday.

The surprise decision was announced Thursday and requires the government to briefly shut down the legislature.The Liberals have stressed no sitting days will be lost because the closure will take place this week over March Break, and said all government bills and motions introduced before prorogation will be reintroduced as soon as the legislature resumes.

But the opposition parties have accused the Liberals, who are lagging in the polls, of trying to hit the reset button ahead of the election. Doug Ford, the newly elected Progressive Conservative leader, said there is "no reset on 15 years of Liberal waste and political corruption," while NDP Leader Andrea Horwath called the prorogation of the legislature a "stunt."

The throne speech will come just a week before the Liberal government is set to table its 2018 budget, which is expected to include an approximately $8 billion deficit. The Liberals have said the deficit is necessary to enhance spending on health care, child care and support for students.

In September 2016, Wynne used a throne speech to announce relief for Ontarians from high hydro rates, an issue that had dogged her for months. At the time, the government removed the provincial portion of the HST from bills and would go on to slash 25 per cent from rates the following spring.


https://barrie.ctvnews.ca/wynne-defends-throne-speech-decision-as-opponents-accuse-her-of-trying-to-hit-reset-button-1.3846405
Bugs





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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Remember when Harper prorogued the legislature, how they wailed about the end of democracy? Remember, when they tried to topple Harper and form a government that included the Bloc?

Not a peep this time.

Again, it's such an obvious ploy. Let's play the movie. How many juicy plums are there still out there? How about public funding for Islamic schools? Or maybe free university tuition for everybody but white males born in Canada? But I jest. What can she use to tickle the collective scrotum of Ontario that doesn't turn as many people off as it turns on?

It seems to me she has to be very careful. Will it work if she reveals that she's got an 'inner Santa Claus" that she needs to let out? Maybe we're all tickled out

I think that most people will just put their hand over their eyes, and think Sweet Jayzuz! as they suck air through their teeth.
RCO





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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

( you can see why wynne is desperate , they may only be polling in the 20% range )


New online poll suggests Tory leader Doug Ford top pick for Ontario premier


Canadian Press


Published:
March 16, 2018


Updated:
March 16, 2018 6:06 PM EDT


Filed Under:

Toronto SUN ›
News ›
Ontario ›



Doug Ford, leader of the PC Party of Ontario, drops by the PC Party offices in Queen's Park in Toronto, Ont. on Monday March 12, 2018. Ernest Doroszuk / Ernest Doroszuk/Toronto Sun



TORONTO — A new online poll suggests more Ontario voters would choose Tory leader Doug Ford for premier rather than Kathleen Wynne or Andrea Horwath.

A survey conducted this week — just days after Ford was chosen to lead the Ontario Progressive Conservatives — shows 24% of participants believe the populist politician would make the best premier out of the three party leaders.



Andrea Horwath

NDP leader Horwath came in second with 15% of support from those surveyed, with Liberal premier Wynne close behind with 13%.

That’s compared with 17% of those surveyed who said they would prefer “someone else,” 13% of participants who wanted none of them, and 15% who said they didn’t know.

The results also indicate that if the June election was held today, 42% of participants say they would vote for the Tories, 26% say they would vote Liberal and 24% say they would vote NDP.



Ontario Premier Kathleen Wynne turns away from the podium after speaks with journalists alongside Quebec Premier Phillippe Couillard after they attended the Confederation of Tomorrow 2.0 Conference in Toronto on Tuesday December 12, 2017.

The poll was conducted online by Leger between March 12 and 14, and involved 1,008 Ontario adults eligible to vote.

The polling industry’s professional body, the Marketing Research and Intelligence Association, says online surveys cannot be assigned a margin of error as they are not a random sample and therefore are not necessarily representative of the whole population


http://torontosun.com/news/pro.....io-premier
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Wynne to open the pre election spending floodgates ?

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