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Toronto Centre





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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
There is hardly anyone on here, save TC, who even recognizes the cultural wars,


What culture war ?

In Canada?

Please explain.
RCO





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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

( is a possible 4th candidate although she doesn't yet have the money to officially enter and a long shot candidate at best )


Tanya Granic Allen announces plans to join Ontario PC leadership race


The president of Parents as First Educators, a group that lobbies against Ontario’s sex-ed curriculum, acknowledged she still needs to drum up signatures for nomination papers and the $100,000 entry fee.


Tanya Granic Allen, seen in this Sept. 2016 file photo, has announced her intention to run in Ontario's Progressive Conservative leadership race. Granic Allen is president of Parents as First Educators, which lobbies against Ontario's sex-ed curriculum.




TORONTO—A fourth person has declared her intention to run for the leadership of Ontario’s Progressive Conservative Party.

But Tanya Granic Allen acknowledged Thursday that she first needs at least 100 party members to sign her nomination papers and donors to help her raise the $100,000 entry fee to enter the race.

Granic Allen is president of Parents as First Educators, which lobbies against the sex-education curriculum in Ontario and is in favour of more parental control of education.


Elliott, Ford, Mulroney sound death knell for People’s Guarantee by opposing carbon tax

It’s still early, but Christine Elliott has most caucus support in PC leadership race

“We have to make sure that the protest of parents across this province isn’t falling upon deaf ears,” Granic Allen said in a statement posted on the group’s website.



There are three candidates in the race so far to replace former party leader Patrick Brown — former Tory legislator Christine Elliott, Toronto lawyer Caroline Mulroney and former Toronto city councillor Doug Ford.

Brown resigned amid sexual misconduct allegations levied by two women who spoke to CTV News. Brown has denied the allegations which have not been independently verified by The Canadian Press.

The first leadership debate will be held in Toronto on Feb. 15, a day before the deadline for candidates and new party members to register. A second debate will follow at a later date.

The vote is set to take place between March 2 and 8, with the results announced on March 10


https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2018/02/08/tanya-granic-allen-announces-plans-to-join-ontario-pc-leadership-race.html
Bugs





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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fascinating, isn't it -- what bubbles up from the grass-roots when you try to select a leader. The plan was to get this underway so fast that none of these irritating pests will have a chance to squeeze the approved, elite figure's unemployed children into those positions.

And look what issue drives this candidate!!! The very issue that Progressive Conservatives run away from most ... The poor woman, taken in by Progressive Conservative's fake democracy.

Quote:
Fourth person plans to join Ontario PC leadership race
By The Canadian Press — Feb 8 2018

TORONTO — A fourth person has declared her intention to run for the leadership of Ontario’s Progressive Conservative Party.

But Tanya Granic Allen acknowledged Thursday that she first needs at least 100 party members to sign her nomination papers and donors to help her raise the $100,000 entry fee to enter the race.

Granic Allen is president of Parents as First Educators, which lobbies against the sex-education curriculum in Ontario and is in favour of more parental control of education.

"We have to make sure that the protest of parents across this province isn’t falling upon deaf ears," Granic Allen said in a statement posted on the group's website.

There are three candidates in the race so far to replace former party leader Patrick Brown - former Tory legislator Christine Elliott, Toronto lawyer Caroline Mulroney and former Toronto city councillor Doug Ford.

Brown resigned amid sexual misconduct allegations levied by two women who spoke to CTV News. Brown has denied the allegations which have not been independently verified by The Canadian Press.

The first leadership debate will be held in Toronto on Feb. 15, a day before the deadline for candidates and new party members to register. A second debate will follow at a later date.

The vote is set to take place between March 2 and 8, with the results announced on March 10.
https://www.nationalnewswatch.com/2018/02/08/fourth-person-plans-to-join-ontario-pc-leadership-race/#.Wn2g9ujwbIV


Premier of Ontario? A perfect office for a rich man's wife.
Progressive Tory





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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just so you know Bugs, you continuously come off as a sexist idiot.
Bugs





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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really? I appreciate your insight, honestly.

I wonder what it would take to convince you that you are on the edge of these things, further, that if you have a lot of education and are under 50, you have probably been compelled to listen to the sad story of what "men" have done to "women" over history.

I think when you make the proper adjustments to context, the picture that emerges -- in our culture -- is quite the opposite. Western societies give women a better 'gender break' than any of the competitors, and treat them way beyond 'equally'.

The problem has only emerged in the last half century, and men have given way all along that half-century. When is it enough?

Is this enough? https://www.campusreform.org/?ID=10486

These are the kind of humiliation rituals that men are being exposed to all the time. Can you imagine if men had a show 'where women were treated this way? Perhaps you would like to point out how this can possibly lead to mutual respect?

Don't think this is only happening in the USA. Not at all. In Ontario, the law has been changed. Now, if a minor child decides they want to try being the opposite sex for awhile, and wants to take hormones, their parents can't stop them. They are reduced to the position of Jehova's Witness believers refusing a blood transfusion for their child.

This, under a government led by an open lesbian and desgned by a man who has served penitentiary time for sex crimes. No lie. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/.....-1.3092393

The pretense is that heterosexuals aren't tolerant enough -- but how much more tolerant can people be?

All of these gender issues go back to the same set of demands and the same activist groups. Most women don't agree with them, but often feel a compulsion to support other women in need. And the solution to a woman in need?

Most men, similarly, don't feel that they're guilty -- particularly the well-schooled. But was Patrick Brown guilty? Is Steve Paikin guilty? What they don't understand is that they dont have to be guilty, they are guilty because they are male. And most women will support other women in his claim because they have been persuaded that most men are potential rapists. Even YOU!!!

The result is that for 50 years we have had an ascending application of the assumption that all males are potential rapists in our schools and in our workplaces. Would you recognize the degree of hate and prejudice that is included in that if I said: All black men are potential rapists? Would you understand?

In fact, what is said increasingly in our institutions of "higher" learning is that Cis-gendered white males are to be treated like potential rapists! (Cis-gendered means that your sexual identity and your genitals line up appropriately.)

They pretend that universities are high crime areas where rape is epidemic, and even claim we live in a 'rape culture'. Pandering 'politicians have re-shaped the law so that it is no longer possible for a man to know with certainty where the line between a sexual offence and being attentive and polite is located. Do you know where that line is, PT? Do you work with women with your office door closed? Men all over the economy are taking steps to protect themselves. It's a real thing, believe it or not.

I suspect you know all of this and are unperturbed. It's me, calling attention to it, that perturbs you.

Did you not listen to the tapes of Leslie Shepherd of Wilfred Laurier University? That will show you what whole sections of Canadians universities house within them. You can't get much more Orwellian than this: http://nationalpost.com/news/c.....rson-video

I take your comment seriously and in a positive way. I hope you can give me a response that is in the same vein. My question to you: why can't you accept what I am saying sympathetically? Why won't the facts give you pause? It seems to me your snort of disgust is just attitude and an attitude that isn't justified by the fact. What are your facts? Do you believe that sexual identity should trump merit when it comes to eye surgery? Is it because it isn't true of you that you refuse to see what we are imposing on our children? You should understand, I am talking about a social condition, not an individual one.
RCO





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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

( according to forum pc support has actually gone up in Toronto after brown was removed as leader and Doug Ford joined the race )

PC Support in Toronto Shoots Upward

February 12, 2018 @ 8:15 AM | Filed under: Toronto




PC Support in Toronto Shoots Upward

Toronto, February 9th – In a random sampling of public opinion taken by The Forum Poll™ among 977 Toronto voters, amongst those decided and leaning, 4 in 10 (43%) say they would cast a ballot for the PCs if an election were held today.



A third (33%) say they would support the Liberals, 2 in 10 (19%) say they would support the NDP.


Few say they would support either the Green Party (4%) or another party (2%).


Support for the PCs has risen significantly, up 12 points since November (Nov 24: 31%). Support for the Liberals is unchanged since November (Nov 24: 33%), and the NDP sees a 6-point decline (Nov 24: 25%).



Respondents most likely to say they support the PCs include those aged 35-44 (44%), 45-54 (46%), or 65+ (46%), males (48%), earning $40,000-$60,000 (45%) or the most wealthy (48%), with a college/university degree (49%), and living in North York (55%).



Respondents most likely to say they support the Liberals include those aged 45-54 (34%), 55-64 (36%), or 65+ (37%), females (35%), the least wealthy (41%), or earning $60,000-$80,000 (38%), the least educated (38%), and living in Scarborough (45%).



Respondents most likely to say they would support the NDP include those aged 34 and younger (23%), earning $20,000-$40,000 (35%), with some college/university (25%), and living in York (n=60)(32%).



“The Progressive Conservatives have moved past the Liberals to assume a commanding lead in the city of Toronto,” said Dr. Lorne Bozinoff, President of Forum Research. “Perhaps the unceasing news coverage of the Progressive Conservatives’ internal problems has proved positive for their fortunes in the city. The PCs should be concerned slightly by the weakening support for the NDP, however, as a collapsing NDP vote is far more likely to help the Liberals, than it will help them.”

Lorne Bozinoff, Ph.D. is the president and founder of Forum Research. He can be reached at lbozinoff@forumresearch.com or at (416) 960-9603.



http://poll.forumresearch.com/.....o-feb-2018
RCO





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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

( another poll indicates pc support is up not down and that all 3 would easily beat wynne )


Dropping Brown has helped Ontario Tories: poll


PC leadership hopefuls Christine Elliott, Caroline Mulroney and Doug Ford are all more popular than Premier Kathleen Wynne, a new poll suggests.



Ontario Progressive Conservative leadership candidates Doug Ford, Caroline Mulroney and Christine Elliott. Since Patrick Brown resigned, the Tories' support is at 43 per cent, the Liberals' is at 28 per cent, the NDP's is at 20 per cent, and the Greens' is at 8 per cent, a new poll suggests.


By Robert BenzieQueen's Park Bureau Chief

Mon., Feb. 12, 2018



Dumping Patrick Brown as leader has helped the Progressive Conservatives no matter who wins the party’s leadership, a new poll suggests.

In Campaign Research’s first public opinion survey since Brown resigned as leader almost three weeks ago, the firm found all three Tory contenders are more popular than Liberal Premier Kathleen Wynne.

“When you’ve got the stark contrast between Patrick Brown and Kathleen Wynne people were on the fence – or at least tied between the two leaders,” Campaign Research CEO Eli Yufest said Monday.

“Now that people have been given more options – namely Doug Ford, Caroline Mulroney, and Christine Elliott – they’re giving the PCs a more serious second look,” said Yufest.

With the party electing a new leader March 10, the pollster surveyed voter intent, testing the premier and her governing party against the three hopefuls.


Elliott, a former MPP, was the most popular – 46 per cent of respondents would cast a ballot for a PC party led by her compared to 23 per cent for Andrea Horwath’s New Democrats, 20 per cent for Wynne’s Liberals, and 7 per cent for Mike Schreiner’s Greens.

Rookie PC candidate Mulroney’s Tories were at 41 per cent compared to 25 per cent for Horwath’s NDP, 22 per cent for Wynne’s Liberals, and 8 per cent for Schreiner’s Greens.


Former Toronto city councillor Doug Ford says his first priority in his bid for leadership of Ontario’s Progressive Conservatives is to unite the party. Ford says the party needs to lure Liberal and NDP voters before the June election. (The Canadian Press)


Former Toronto councillor Ford’s PC party was at 39 per cent compared to 24 per cent apiece for Horwath’s NDP and Wynne’s Liberals, and 7 per cent for Schreiner’s Greens.



When no leaders’ names are surveyed, the Tories are at 43 per cent, the Liberals at 28 per cent, the NDP at 20 per cent, and the Greens are at 8 per cent.

Using an online panel of 1,426 Ontario voters, Campaign Research polled between Friday and Sunday. A probability sample of that size would have a margin of error of plus or minus 2.5 percentage points, 19 times out of 20.

In January, the company’s monthly tracking survey found Brown’s Tories at 35 per cent, Wynne’s Liberals at 34 per cent, Horwath’s New Democrats at 23 per cent, and Schreiner’s Greens at six per cent.

Yufest cautioned against reading into the latest poll that the June 7 election is a lock for the Tories — no matter who they choose as leader.

“When you’ve got the major upheaval coupled with the intense media attention that’s been given to the party we see a lot of … volatility,” he said, noting all of the controversies plaguing the Conservatives appear to be sticking to Brown not his would-be successors.

“None of them were obviously involved in any of that. All three of the (leadership) candidates are outside of caucus – none of them are sitting MPPs – so these three candidates are the new face or the fresh face of the party.”

As in past Campaign Research polls, Wynne’s personal approval ratings lag behind her party.

The premier had 17 per cent approval, 69 per cent disapproval, and 13 per cent didn’t know.

Horwath had 37 per cent approval, 18 per cent disapproval, and 45 per cent didn’t know.

Elliott had 32 per cent approval, 14 per cent disapproval, and 54 per cent didn’t know.

Ford had 29 per cent approval, 36 per cent disapproval, and 35 per cent didn’t know.

Mulroney had 27 per cent approval, 20 per cent disapproval, and 53 per cent didn’t know.

Read more about:
Andrea Horwath, Kathleen Wynne, Doug Ford

https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2018/02/12/dropping-brown-has-helped-ontario-tories-poll.html
Bugs





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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Progressive Conservatives can take heart ... the public is so-oo through with Wynne that nothing can stop them from finding somebody else. Even an unknown will do. They seem also to have decided their choice is not going to be

It doesn't mean that everything I said about them isn't true. Ten days later, what justifies the attack on their leader?

Brown should run, and make the contenders prove their case to the membership. He's still the best answer because he has worked on the problem of putting together his coalition. He knows the people on the ground, and he knows the promises he made.

Let's be clear, I don't really like Brown's politics myself. I don't like the way he has left the two biggest opposition issues unrepresented. These are (1) the carbon tax and (b) the radical sex education being imposed on school children. Because of Brown, every party in the race will be for both those things. It reminds one of Meech Lake, when all the elites went one way and a big chunk of the electorate went another.

This isn't as intense, but its the same kind of divide.

I stick with him because he's working hard, doing the right things, and the election is only four months away. And I, too, want to see Wynne deposed more than I want him to pick up the cudgels on my issues. At least I see the 'logic' he's following. He was letting Wynne defeat herself. It requires confidence and 'patience'.

But I ask you, would you want to be in a foxhole with jerks like the leadership of the Progressive Conservatives of Ontario? Would you like to lead a platoon of those guys?
Toronto Centre





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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
(b) the radical sex education being imposed on school children


If Doug Ford , the uber Elite , wants to run on attacking the sex ed issue, he will lose.

So will anyone else.

Its been in place for what, 3 years now? And what harm has it caused?

Patrick Brown acquiesced too early, kept quiet too long and now.... its not going to work.

I say that not knowing what anyone has on him or her, but the ship has sailed.
RCO





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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

looking at the new poll in more detail

Wynne would have ZERO chance against Elliott , even if her numbers went down a few points after leadership race boost ended


Mulroney would pose a problem as well and wynne would be unlikely to beat her as well


Ford would also beat wynne as things stand now , although his negatives are high considering its this early in the race


it would take a major gaffe or horrible province wide pc campaign for the liberals or ndp to even have a chance in this election. a pc majority or very large pc lead minority parliament is the most likely outcome at this point


wynne has no pathway forward especially with pc support rising in the 416 area , she'd need to hold almost all of Toronto's seats to even have a chance at a minority , the forum poll would seem to indicate she's going to lose many soft 416 ridings to the pc's and is no where outside the 416 for her to make significant gains
Bugs





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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess, after you've seen the dagger stuck into your leader, the best thing to do is keep your mouth shut. Ignore the mess.

But, under a headline that is bizzarro-world absurd, CTV announces that one of Brown's accusers has changed her story. No longer was she an under-aged teen still in high school, and the thing about not being able to describe the house -- well, it's still true. They have just changed the time when the alleged incident took place, so Brown's refutation doesn't work anymore.

Quote:
Patrick Brown accusers stand by allegations
CTV National News: Brown accusers
Two women who accused Patrick Brown of sexual misconduct, which he denies, have faced intensifying online abuse. Glen McGregor reports
Published Tuesday, February 13, 2018 11:00PM EST

OTTAWA -- The two women who accused former Progressive Conservative leader Patrick Brown of sexual misconduct are not backing down despite a concerted effort to refute their allegations and discredit them publicly with the help of a hired private investigator.

"I stand absolutely by the truth of what I said to CTV. There is nothing in what Patrick Brown alleges that undermines the core truth of what I have experienced with him," said the woman who accused Brown of dropping his pants and telling her to perform oral sex in his home about 10 years ago, a claim he denies.

The first accuser said she’s been besieged by vicious comments online, including pictures posted on Twitter in an attempt to reveal her identity.

"The comments made about me on social media were demeaning, victim-blaming and misogynistic. My privacy was invaded, my character was assassinated, and I was subjected to gratuitous slurs about my private life and relationships. The comments that I have been subjected to ignore altogether the abuse of power by an older sober man over a young intoxicated woman," she said.

She now says that she was of legal drinking age and out of high school. Brown was a Conservative member of Parliament at the time of the alleged incident. [....]
https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/patrick-brown-accusers-stand-by-allegations-1.3802657


You can rarely find a more biased and just plain wrong headline for a story. The fact is nobody knows the accuser's name, and she is out of the country. All this woman-as-victim stuff is a lie. (Sorry, Prog, but am I wrong?) In fact, you could call it the standard lie.

The fact is that after Patrick Brown refuted, with fact-checkable information proving that woman's story didn't conform to the facts of his residence. In a courtroom, this would discredit the witness. She has responded by changing the date of the indicent but this means admitting she was of legal age, and no longer a high-school student.

She did not say whether Brown was the first guy she'd picked up in a bar and sucked off.

Now the allegation is that Brown met an adult woman in a bar a decade ago and had consensual sex with her. All the paedophilia-edges are gone.

The other accuser seems to have disappeared, with no details to fact-check.

The woman is also a good friend -- not a casual friend -- of the reporter. She has also hired the most odious lawyer in Ontario, David Butts, who works both sides of the street on sex crimes.

There is so much wrong with this story that it should never have passed journalistic muster -- which, to me, means that CTV is in on the plot.

Brown needs to run ....
RCO





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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

is does seem like CTV is more than the messenger in the Brown saga , as both accusers have ties to CTV reporters and they aired the story even though other witnesses said the accusations were false


now there changing the story , they admit the girl wasn't in high school and wasn't underage in a bar downtown . now claiming she was of legal age so a 19 year old in a bar downtown. which is pretty common age to be out and in a nightclub


even if Brown did have a sexual encounter go bad with a younger women when he was MP , that by itself is not illegal . the age of consent is 16 so even if she had been 18 that by itself wasn't a crime

even if this woman's story is true , nothing about it sounds like a crime now that its revealed she had to have been at least 19 , meet in a bar downtown , bought her drinks , went back to his place , had a sexual encounter that some would describe as consentual and she was allowed to leave on her own will when she felt uncomfortable


but the fact she keeps changing her story , and cannot provide any evidence does lead me to doubt that any of what she's claiming really happened
Bugs





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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And let's not forget -- Brown says the incident never happened. We are talking about her side of the story and giving her every benefit of the doubt. There still is not one bit of corroborating evidence.

What is there that would justify toppling a leader of a political party and destroying his life?
RCO





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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

in a facebook post (that I cannot copy) brown is alleging more details of the CTV story are untrue

the girl is unable to explain how she got to Brown's house to begin with


he said the ctv reporter Glen Mcgregor called a friend of Brown and asked if he drove this girl to browns house that night , a claim she is alleged to have made to explain how she got there . but friend told ctv this claim was entirely untrue but ctv choose not to report it in there updated story

ctv has choose to not report 2 witnesses who have said both claims are entirely false



the story has so many holes it cannot possible be proven at this point


but the fact this girl has retained a high priced lawyer , indicates she plans to stick with the story for some time or is worried about being sued by Brown and losing in court


but I do think Brown should consider taking a break from politics for the time being , until this situation is figured out and allow for the ont pc's to move on and focus on election
RCO





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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

( maybe a surprise decision , Sam Oosterhoff is endorsing Elliott , he was one of the few undecided mpp's )



Sam Oosterhoff‏Verified account @samoosterhoff · 3m3 minutes ago

I've made my decision.
My choice for Ontario PC Leader and Premier of Ontario, is Christine Elliot!
Her integrity, experience, and compassion are just what we need to deliver the Better Ontario Ontarians want and deserve.
She's ready. Now. http://Christine2018.ca
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