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Bugs





Joined: 16 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Confirming our worst fears ... the "reintegration program" is run by the Kumbaya crowd! The government is so deep into magic thinking on this one that they haven't bothered to build in a tracking capability so they can evaluate their success, and detect if/when they go to meet the bomb-builder from Saudi Arabia. The part we forget about is that all of these people are only a trial away from being classified as violent criminals.

Quote:
Federal government not tracking interventions with returning ISIS fighters
Public Safety pays for interventions, but doesn't know how many
By Evan Dyer, CBC News Posted: Nov 23, 2017 5:00 AM ET Last Updated: Nov 23, 2017 5:00 AM ET

Turning radicalized individuals away from extreme ideologies and helping them rejoin 'Canadian society is a key goal of the federal government, but it has little data on how well that fight is going.

The new Canada Centre for Community Engagement and Prevention of Violence is supposed to be on the front line of this fight. It funds research and programs that "aim to prevent and counter radicalization to violence at the individual level."

But the government doesn't know how many radicalized people are actually being spoken to, or who they are. Public Safety Canada says it can't provide statistics because the centre does not directly intervene with radicalized individuals.

Moreover, the groups the centre funds tend to focus on research over action.

"My fear is that we're almost researching this thing to death," said former CSIS officer Phil Gurski, author of the book Western Foreign Fighters.

Four more projects fall under the heading of "direct intervention/prevention programming," but it remains unclear why they are categorized as such.

Two offer training programs for the Ontario Provincial Police; a third backs a series of expert roundtables on the use of social media, and a fourth, Project SOMEONE at Montreal's Concordia University, "promotes the use of social media and art in schools to build awareness and resilience, combat online hate speech and create space for dialogue."

In September, Public Safety Canada gave Project SOMEONE $367,000.

Deradicalization through poetry, podcasts

Gurski said he is troubled by the mixing of counter-terrorism and deradicalization with efforts to fight discrimination and hate speech.[Emphasis added]

"The vast majority of hateful people — and there's lots of hateful people online and lots of hateful people in Canada — are not terrorists. I think it's wrong to treat those things as the same even for research purposes."

Vivek Venkatesh, Project SOMEONE's director, told CBC News that his work does relate to jihadi-inspired terrorism.

"What we're doing with the analysis that we've conducted is, in fact, build a series of podcasts and counter-narratives through art-based pedagogy and poetry to empower the broader population in understanding how [ISIS] is using and abusing religious interpretations."

But Venkatesh has an unconventional outlook on the problem of terrorism, telling CBC that jihadi terrorism is not the main terrorist threat facing the West — although he didn't say which groups or ideologies are.

"Go to the Global Terrorism Index and look through the major terrorist organizations and which countries are affected by terrorism in the worst ways and whether jihadism, as you're calling it, is in fact the biggest plague that the western world is perceiving right now."

The GTI, based on data collected at the University of Maryland, lists 19 of the world's 20 most deadly global terror acts in 2016 as having been carried out by groups inspired by Islamic fundamentalist ideologies, and the four groups it lists as the deadliest in the world are all jihadi groups (ISIS, Boko Haram, al-Qaeda and the Taliban). It says three-quarters of all western terrorism victims since 2014 were killed by people directed or inspired by just one jihadi group: Islamic State in Iraq and Syria. [Emphasis added]

Quebec approach more effective?

Unlike the federal government, Quebec does collect statistics on the interventions it finances, through its Centre for the Prevention of Radicalization Leading to Violence.

In its 2016 report, Quebec's Centre listed 119 interventions in cases of "politico-religious radicalization" — typically Islamist — as opposed to 11 in cases of extreme right-wing indoctrination.

But far-right radicals are increasing in number according to research director Benjamin Ducol, who wrote his thesis on the paths to radicalization taken by jihadis in Canada, France and Belgium.

'Open your eyes' to far-right threat, Quebec City mayor says

Ducol says that, while his centre has dealt with people arrested at the airport on their way to Syria, it hasn't been involved with returnees and, as far as he knows, no-one else is either.

Research suggests extremists have lower rates of recidivism than common criminals, if counselled effectively, he says, but reaching the most dangerous ones remains an issue.

"All the interventions that we do are on a voluntary basis," he told CBC News. "If they don't want to engage with us, we have no means to constrain them to have any contact with us."[Emphasis added]

How many are here?

Complicating the problem is an ongoing disagreement over how many jihadi returnees are in Canada.

Public Safety Minister Ralph Goodale told the House this week that "the number of returnees is in the order of 60." Others question why that number has remained the same for 18 months, rather than increasing as ISIS sinks and its foreign recruits jump ship.

There are two things most experts can agree on however: There are too many people involved in jihadi ideology for all of them to be surveilled round the clock; and the government has been unable to piece together evidence for prosecutions in more than a fraction of cases.

Centre aimed at preventing homegrown terror must cast wide net, expert advises
"You have to find an alternative," says Ducol. "You're not going to just leave these people wandering the streets. If you don't do anything, for sure you are going to have people who re-engage into violent extremism."[Emphasis added]

Gurski, the former intelligence operative, is skeptical about the effectiveness of deradicalization programs in the first place.

He says he'd like to see the government make greater efforts to hold returnees to account for their crimes.

"I want to know: What did you do while you were over there? And if I have to run a human source against you" — meaning, put an agent on your case — "to get that evidence then so be it.

"Because the mere fact that you left the country to join ISIS is a criminal offence."
[Emphasis added]
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politic.....-1.4414999


This is out of control. I never realized until this article that it is against Canadian law to go fight for ISIS. These returning jihadis are unconvicted criminals. That means the government has a lot of leverage, at least enough to make them go through these 're-education camps' where they will be compelled to drink highballs and mai tais before Allah, as a punishmen, and may peace be on all their souls.

Why are they not being treated as criminals? Is this another one of those Michael Bryant deals, where enforcing the law is one of the options on the politicians' table?

The fact is that these returning jihadis are criminals with a background of violence, and as the state officially sees it, they are unconvicted violent criminals.

Huh? For the rest of us, the law is the Law.

But these violent criminals are being 'treated' with poetry and podcasts! If they want it. It does nothing to protect the general public.
.
RCO





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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FUREY: Liberals' count of 60 Canadian jihadists is a two-year-old number

Anthony Furey


Published:
November 22, 2017


Updated:
November 22, 2017 5:14 PM EST


Filed Under:

Toronto SUN ›
Opinion ›
Columnists ›



Minister of Public Safety Ralph Goodale stands during question period in the House of Commons on on Parliament Hill in Ottawa on Tuesday Nov. 7, 2017. THE CANADIAN PRESS/Sean KilpatrickSean Kilpatrick / THE CANADIAN PRESS



The terrorist situation in Iraq and Syria is a continually evolving phenomenon. So why is the Liberal government using two-year-old data about terrorists and trying to pass it off as current?

This has been an issue for several years now — the return of Canadian ISIS fighters to home soil. And during that time it’s taken a lot of guesswork to piece together just how many jihadists we’re talking about.

It’s a tough slog, putting it all together. Not just for journalists and parliamentarians, but for the CSIS and RCMP officers assigned the task.

How many ISIS fighters are walking about freely in our country? Dozens. Potentially, well over a hundred. We don’t know the exact number, but we’ve got the evidence to wager it’s more than the Liberals are letting on.

On Monday, Conservative MP Michelle Rempel accused PM Justin Trudeau of hiding the number of fighters who have returned, asking for an exact count. Public Safety Minister Ralph Goodale stood up to offer the response: “in the order of 60.”

That was the number that hit the headlines and got Canadians talking. But it’s far from accurate. The first clue comes from reading Goodale’s full remark: “As the director of CSIS indicated before a parliamentary committee some months ago, the number of returns known to the Government of Canada is in the order of 60, and they are under very careful investigation.”

Some months ago? Try more than a year and a half ago. Goodale appears to be referring to CSIS director Michel Coulombe’s March, 2016, testimony before the standing Senate committee on national security and defence. It was there that Coulombe offered the 60 count.

However, when Postmedia asked Goodale’s office where it got that number from, it cited a government report compiled as of year-end 2015. This tells us two things: 1) That Coulombe offered Senators a figure that was four months stale; 2) That Goodale answered Rempel’s question with a figure that’s a full two years old.

In response to a question on this seeming discrepancy, Goodale’s spokesperson Scott Bardsley told Postmedia on Wednesday that “the figures haven’t changed.” Likewise, multiple media requests made to CSIS by Postmedia over the past two years requesting updates on the figure have either referred to these same figures or have simply gone unanswered.

It’s unclear what it means to say the figures haven’t changed. Is it that CSIS and the government just haven’t tabulated new numbers for public release? Or does it mean that the number has been static at 60 for two years?

The latter is hard to believe. Back in October 2014, CSIS deputy director of operations Jeff Yaworski testified before the same Senate committee that the number at that time was 80. How did it drop by 20 in two years?

That question was actually put to Coulombe in his 2016 appearance. He explained that in some cases people have come back to Canada and then returned again for round two of fighting, dropping off the list of those with firm footing on home soil.

In other cases, some people who were on the list were later found to be travelling abroad but not for terror purposes so shouldn’t have been on it in the first place. Fair enough. But if that’s the case, this suggests that the numbers publicly presented just this week have remained more or less static not just since spring 2016 but since the fall of 2014. It’s hard to take this seriously, at least without further explanation.

This is largely because over the past couple of years, we’ve been told several times that there are close to 200 extremists abroad who have yet to return home, with around 100 of them based in Iraq and Syria. Are we to believe that none of these 100+ individuals have returned since December 2015, even since the recent fall of the caliphate? What happened to them? Where did they go? We know of a few who were killed, but all of them?

Putting these numbers together is an art not an exact science. And even though Goodale was responding to a question about ISIS fighters, the number he gave actually covers all extremist groups operating in the broader region. From that perspective, we should cut our security services a degree of slack. But we should still expect them to be forthright as much as possible.

Instead, they’re being misleading. The question is whether they’re also misleading Goodale and Trudeau or if our politicians do have a more accurate picture of the count and that they are in turn misleading the public.

http://torontosun.com/opinion/.....old-number
Bugs





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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just as an aside -- now they are caught. Nobody knows how many jihadis there are, they don't have a tracking system on them, the seemingly have decided that violations of the criminal code don't require enforcement because ... what's TC's line ... no reasonable prospect of conviction?

This shows a basic sneakiness. The government was hoping to keep this below the horizon all rhe time, and when caught, they were less than frank. Now nobody knows, and speculation is invited. Mistakes are covered up with lies. Do you trust Goodale's numbers? At least 60?

This is like a page out of the McGuinty playbook.
Bugs





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PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even when they have one, they close their eyes it seems ...

Quote:
Edmonton police officer stabbed, rammed by car, says life back to normal

EDMONTON — An Edmonton police officer who was rammed by a vehicle outside a CFL game and then stabbed says his life has returned to normal.

Const. Mike Chernyk was on duty outside Commonwealth Stadium on Sept. 30 when a speeding car rammed through a barrier and sent him flying five metres in the air.

The driver got out, pulled out a large knife and began stabbing Chernyk.

Four pedestrians were hit and injured hours later when the driver of a cube van with police cars in pursuit sped down Jasper Avenue, one of Edmonton's main streets.

Chernyk said in a statement on the Edmonton Police Service website that what happened has not deterred him from being a police officer, it has strengthened his desire to help people and he will continue to protect and serve the public.

He also thanked Edmontonians and people from across Canada for their kind words, well wishes and cards.

"I’ve received emails from people I’ve never met, including other officers who said that what I did has made them more vigilant and want to train harder," he said in the post.

"We get into policing because we want to help people and do the right thing for the right reasons, so if what happened to me inspires people and brings them together, then I really can’t ask for more than that."

Chernyk, a 10-year-veteran, suffered stab wounds to the face and the head but was released from hospital relatively quickly. He returned to work in October.

Abdulahi Hasan Sharif is charged with several counts of attempted murder. His next court appearance is Dec. 13. The court has ordered two psychiatric assessments for Sharif.

An Islamic State flag was found in the car used in the attack, but no terrorism charges have been laid against Sharif.[Emphasis added]
http://thechronicleherald.ca/c.....-to-normal

You wouldn't want to consider this a hate crime? Hmmmm?
RCO





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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

( goodale seems to now be admitting it might not be possible to reintegrate an ISIS member who returns )


Chance of reintegrating Canadian ISIS fighters 'pretty remote': Goodale


Rachel Aiello, Ottawa News Bureau Online Producer

@rachaiello
.
Published Sunday, November 26, 2017 7:00AM EST


OTTAWA – The likelihood of successfully reintegrating ISIS fighters with ties to Canada who have returned home is "pretty remote," admits Public Safety Minister Ralph Goodale.

After days of questioning over Canada’s plan to rehabilitate returning ISIS fighters, the federal government’s point man on national security says it might be too late for some.

"If you want to have a good solid hope of some kind of successful intervention, it has to be at a much earlier stage. You have to prevent the problem before it exists," said Goodale in an interview with Evan Solomon, host of CTV’s Question Period.


Ralph Goodale
Public Safety Minister Ralph Goodale appears on CTV's Question Period on Sunday, Nov. 26, 2017.

"Once a person has been in a war zone, once they’ve been actively engaged in terrorist-related activities, the capacity to turn them around is pretty remote. That’s why you have to use the other tools, including collecting the evidence and prosecuting wherever and whenever you can," he said.

Though, Goodale admits pursuing charges against these people is difficult. So far charges have been brought in two cases since the Liberals came to power. The challenge, Goodale said, is in translating intelligence that Canadian security agencies have on these people into evidence that will stick in court.

For now, Canadian authorities are using surveillance measures, and passport revocations as methods to monitor those who have come back to Canada.

Goodale said there are between 180 and 190 with a connection to Canada that they know have travelled to Syria and Iraq, among other locations.

As well, there are roughly 60 foreign fighters who have returned to Canada, about the same number as two years ago.

"Some of them will have engaged in fighting and been an active part of the terrorist network. Others will have done other things to support the terrorist network in some other way… some of them may well be dead," Goodale said.

Goodale faced criticism in the House of Commons over the potential national security threat these people pose.

On Friday, the Conservative Party sent a fundraising email to supporters saying that the Liberals are "putting the safety of all Canadians at risk."

"These are people that got on a plane to fight for a terrorist organization committing some of the worst atrocities imaginable… They need to be prosecuted and dealt with to the full extent of the law," the email reads.

Earlier this year the government launched a counter-radicalization centre -- the Canada Centre for Community Engagement and Prevention of Violence -- to counter extremism. Budget 2016 earmarked $35 million over five years for the centre.

Rules could change following Trudeau's mall swarming

After being whisked away by his protective detail from a suburban Toronto shopping mall while campaigning with a byelection candidate on Wednesday, questions were raised about Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's security.

In an interview with CP24, former RCMP Commissioner Norman Inkster said that despite official assurances that Trudeau’s personal safety was never compromised, anything could have happened.

"You do need to keep a cordon around the prime minister so that no one can get within reach of him should they want to do him harm," Inkster said. "Clearly, things got out of hand."

Goodale, who is responsible for the RCMP said Trudeau’s security team did their job reacting to a "spontaneous," "developing situation" by getting him out of there, but it’s possible the protocols could change going forward.

"Every time there’s an incident, the people who are involved go to school on that incident and determine what, if anything, could have been done better, and do they need to change the rules of engagement. They will if that is necessary," said Goodale.

"They’ll learn the lessons from that, and the appropriate actions will be taken."

New RCMP commissioner coming 'early' in New Year

Goodale also said that Canada will have a new commissioner of the RCMP soon, replacing retired Comm. Bob Paulson. In the interim, deputy commissioner Daniel Dubeau has been acting in the role.

"We’re in the final stages of the interviewing process… there was a medium list and a short list, and now down to the final interviews in the next number of days and I hope to be able to make a recommendation to the prime minister very early in the New Year," Goodale said.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics.....-1.3693559
RCO





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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

( one has to wonder if these ISIS fighters have in fact committed war crimes ( which is highly suspected as they've found many mass graves and reports of many rapes ) that there isn't legal obligations to bring them to justice ? how can you let them walk free when you know they might of committed serious crimes over there )


Plan to deal with returning ISIS fighters sparks fiery exchange between Scheer, PM




Graham Slaughter, CTVNews.ca Writer

@grahamslaughter
.
Published Tuesday, November 28, 2017 5:37PM EST


In an explosive shouting match in the House of Commons Tuesday, Conservative Leader Andrew Scheer accused the Liberal government of going easy on suspected ISIS terrorists returning to Canada, while the prime minister blamed the Conservatives of “trying to scare Canadians.”

The Conservatives have repeatedly hammered the government’s plan to rehabilitate ISIS fighters who return to Canada. Earlier this year, the government established a counter-radicalization centre, the Canada Centre for Community Engagement and Prevention of Violence, in a bid to counter extremism.

In his opening remarks in question period, Scheer asked Prime Minister Justin Trudeau why his government is “so focused on reintegration and not putting these people in jail.”


scheer
Conservative Leader Andrew Scheer speaks during question period in the House of Commons, in Ottawa on Tuesday, Nov.28, 2017. (THE CANADIAN PRESS / Adrian Wyld)



Extended: 'They play the same games'
Prime Minister Justin Trudeau speaks during question period in the House of Commons, in Ottawa on Tuesday, Nov.28, 2017. (THE CANADIAN PRESS/Adrian Wyld)

Trudeau responded that the government has a broad range of tools to keep Canadians safe, including “enforcement, surveillance and national security tools.”

“But we also have methods of de-emphasizing or de-programming people who want to harm our society,” Trudeau said.

Scheer shot back by accusing the Liberals of having too soft an approach.

“This prime minister is using a broad spectrum that includes poetry and podcasts and all kinds of counselling and group hug sessions. Mr. Speaker, when will the prime minister take the security of Canadians seriously and look for ways to put these ISIS fighters in jail?”

Trudeau appeared visibly angry by Scheer’s comments and raised his voice above hecklers to suggest that the Conservatives “learned nothing” from the last election.

“They ran an election on snitch lines against Muslims. They ran an election on islamophobia and division. And still they play the same games trying to scare Canadians. The fact is, we focus on the security of Canadians and we always will. And they play politics of fear. And Canadians reject that,” Trudeau said.

Scheer responded by doubling down on his poetry reference and saying that, when ISIS fighters return to Canada, “they don’t need to spend time writing haikus. They need to spend time in jail.”

“Mr. Speaker, nobody voted in the last election to elect a government that would be so focused on the rights of ISIS terrorists.”

The fiery exchange comes after Public Safety Minister Ralph Goodale told CTV’s Question Period that the chances of reintegrating ISIS fighters is “pretty remote” and that collecting evidence and prosecuting should happen “whenever you can.”

"If you want to have a good solid hope of some kind of successful intervention, it has to be at a much earlier stage. You have to prevent the problem before it exists," Goodale said.

Since the Liberals took office, charges have been laid in two cases involving individuals suspected of participating in terrorist activities abroad. Goodale told CTV’s Question Period that the difficulty with pressing charges against suspected terrorists is finding viable intelligence that can be used as evidence in court.

Canadian officials continue to revoke passports and are harnessing surveillance in efforts to closely watch individuals who return to Canada.

The Canadian Security Intelligence Service has said it knows of at least 180 individuals with a connection to Canada suspected of terrorist activity overseas. About half of those are believed to have travelled to Syria or Iraq.

Lorne Dawson, a University of Waterloo sociology professor and project director for the Canadian Network for Research on Terrorism, Security and Society, has challenged the notion that terrorists retuning to Canada can’t be rehabilitated.

Dawson said that many terrorist travellers are disillusioned by the time they return home, and others suffer from trauma. Others, he said, may be focused on returning to a more normal life after feeling they have fought for their cause overseas.

"No credible expert in the world thinks you arrest your way out of jihadist radicalization -- it's a social movement," Dawson told the Canadian Press. "You can't possibly arrest all the people who are engaged with this ideology.”

With files from The Canadian Press

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics.....-1.3698183
Bugs





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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Germany: Surge in Migrant Attacks on Police

Violent attacks against German police have reached epidemic proportions, and Chancellor Angela Merkel's open-door migration policy is to blame, official statistics show.

The Federal Criminal Police Office (Bundeskriminalamt, BKA) reported 36,755 attacks against German police in 2016 — or an average of 100 per day, a significant increase over previous years.

Violence — including verbal and physical assaults, and even murder — against police is rampant in all 16 of Germany's federal states. According to the BKA, the epicenter of the problem in 2016 was North Rhine-Westphalia (8,929 incidents), the state with the largest migrant population, followed by: Bavaria (4,930); Baden-Württemberg (4,355); Berlin (3,154); Lower Saxony (3,030); Hesse (1,870); Saxony (1,573); Rhineland-Palatinate (1,537); Hamburg (1,339); Thüringen (1,228); Schleswig-Holstein (1,237); Brandenburg (1,009); Saxony-Anhalt (899); Mecklenburg-Vorpommern (658); Saarland (521); and Bremen (486).

Preliminary data, recently leaked to German public radio, indicate that in terms of violence against German law enforcement officers, 2017 will be a record-breaking year. In Berlin alone, attacks against police this year are up 70% in Görlitzer Park, 35% at the Warsaw Bridge and 15% at Kottbusser Tor, according to the Berliner Morgenpost.

Official statistics do not reveal the source of the violence, but do show a spike in attacks against police since 2015, when Merkel allowed into the country more than a million migrants, mostly Muslim, from Africa, Asia and the Middle East. Anecdotal evidence corroborates claims by police that migrants are behind many of the attacks. [....]
https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/11459/germany-migrants-attack-police


German police uncertain about how to act when the victims are women and civilians, but they probably keep better records on assaults against themselves.
Toronto Centre





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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahhh... Gatestone again huh.

Still wrong I see. Good for you and them. Lying and shitting bull daily.
Bugs





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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, if you know otherwise, you should publish the article, or some data.

The Gatestone people are well respected. Many of them are western-oriented Moslems themselves. They have no motive to unfairly vilify Moslems.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
Well, if you know otherwise, you should publish the article, or some data.

The Gatestone people are well respected. Many of them are western-oriented Moslems themselves. They have no motive to unfairly vilify Moslems.


LOL !

Well respected ? By whom? Anti Muslims bigots such as yourself? Ok...well I guess so.

Its an American Islamaphobic group pumping out anti-Muslim rhetoric on a daily basis , most if not all of it easy to dismiss. This one is easy to dismiss.

You were most certainly schooled on the last piece Gatestone did yet you went right back to the well.

" D'oh ! "
Bugs





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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They get more respect than you do.

I gather that you dont have anything based on facts so you just run at the mouth.
Toronto Centre





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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
They get more respect than you do.

Thats your answer when one can easily find sites debunking Gatestone?

Cant wait to hear you tell us about the flat earth !
Quote:


I gather that you dont have anything based on facts so you just run at the mouth.

I gave you facts the last time and you chose to ignore them, would this time be any different?

Its hard to clean ones mind when all they do is keep shovelling shit into it.

Any WorldNetDaily stuff for us to laugh about?
Bugs





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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's just that you seem to have no understanding of the role the propaganda in these things.

It's as if you are a feminist, one of the worst offending group, claiming for eons they were paid less than men, despite it's been debunked everywhere, But they still put out this stuff because it's good for them if their students believe this nonsense. They even teach that in former universities. (That's how we know they deserve the title of "former". harking back to the days when universities were real because they had an interest in Truth.)

Or it's like abortionists saying it's onlý a matter of choice, and hiding all the deleterious effects that follow on killing your own ... fetus? ... well, child. They don't think it's a choice -- its really a way out of a jam. Or evading responsibility.

Propaganda. When big governments go against the deeply felt desire of part of their electorate, they often try to make their lies seem more credible by publishing them. Or publishing a poll ... it's all over the place.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
It's just that you seem to have no understanding of the role the propaganda in these things.
What propaganda?
Although lies are used in propaganda, outright lies (I see you Gatestone) are not.

Although I have no idea what you are tryiong to say here.
Quote:

It's as if you are a feminist, one of the worst offending group, claiming for eons they were paid less than men, despite it's been debunked everywhere,

It has ? Wow

Please post up some corroborating evidence from valued sources. (this should be hilarious- its a dumb thing to claim for sure)
Quote:

Or it's like abortionists saying it's onlý a matter of choice,


Um yeah... it is a choice. A womens choice.
Bugs





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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to Gatestone there is more.
Quote:
About Gatestone Institute

"Let us tenderly and kindly cherish, therefore, the means of knowledge. Let us dare to read, think, speak, and write."
— John Adams

Gatestone Institute, a non-partisan, not-for-profit international policy council and think tank is dedicated to educating the public about what the mainstream media fails to report in promoting:

Institutions of Democracy and the Rule of Law;
Human Rights
A free and strong economy
A military capable of ensuring peace at home and in the free world
Energy independence
Ensuring the public stay informed of threats to our individual liberty, sovereignty and free speech.
Gatestone Institute conducts national and international conferences, briefings and events for its members and others, with world leaders, journalists and experts -- analyzing, strategizing, and keeping them informed on current issues, and where possible recommending solutions.

Gatestone Institute will be publishing books, and continues to publish an online daily report, www.gatestoneinstitute.org, that features topics such as military and diplomatic threats to the United States and our allies; events in the Middle East and their possible consequences, and the transparency and accountability of international organizations.

Gatestone Institute is funded by private donors and foundations. We are grateful for your support. Gatestone Institute is a 501(c)3 not-for-profit organization, Federal Tax ID #454724565.

Ambassador John R. Bolton, Chairman


who told you that it was disreputable? +
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Canada offers reintegration support to ISIS figters

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