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RCO





Joined: 02 Mar 2009
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Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
I don't think that's right, RCO. There's no way you can have effective campaign finance rules without defining who gets to campaign, and keeping all other groups out of the discussion. The only way they have of enforcing is by matching expenses to revenues.
If 'third parties' can buy advertising that makes the case for that party, then it's just a disguised donation. Otherwise, the rules are meaningless because their intent can be so easily evaded.

Other voices in support of one party or another have to be banned or treated as a donation to the campaign, and come under those limits there. (Unions and some companies pressure employees to give the max and then repay them in some way.)

Beyond running ads, unions will still be able to provide 'volunteers' to work on local campaigns, and nobody has to know if they were paid or not.



I really wouldn't care if union people helped out at a campaign office and knocked on doors but agree they shouldn't be paid and should be volunteers doing it cause they want to

I don't see how any union members personal rights are being restricted by putting a spending cap on third party ads ?

my concern is the $millions being spent on smear ads which seem to only ever target 1 political party , has the working families group ever run an ad that went after the liberals , ndp or green party ? has there ever been such a biased group before ? they claim to be some neutral group who just happens to always have an issue with the Ontario pc party but who everyone suspects are really liberals

and the working Ontario women group is even more bizarre , claiming to be worried about abortion . even though no provincial party in Ontario would consider restricting abortion access with a 10 foot pole . it seems there reason for existence isn't even real ? so why are they here now in Ontario claiming to have a need to be involved with our elections ?
RCO





Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 8911
Reputation: 294.4
votes: 3
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

( rather crazy night , not sure how this is all going to unfold , more tomorrow )


Patrick Brown denies sexual misconduct allegations from two women

Patrick Brown
Ontario Progressive Conservative Leader Patrick Brown speaks at a press conference on Wednesday, Jan. 24, 2018.
.

Glen McGregor, Senior Political Correspondent, CTV National News

@glen_mcgregor
.
Published Wednesday, January 24, 2018 10:00PM EST
Last Updated Wednesday, January 24, 2018 10:13PM EST

WARNING: This story contains graphic details

OTTAWA – Ontario Progressive Conservative Leader Patrick Brown is facing serious allegations of sexual misconduct from two women who spoke to CTV News. In interviews, the women allege inappropriate behavior by the rising political figure throughout his tenure as an elected official.

One was still in high school when she says Brown, a well-known Barrie politician, asked her to perform oral sex on him.

Patrick Brown
PC Leader Patrick Brown addresses the Conservative Party convention, in Toronto on Saturday, November 25, 2017. THE CANADIAN PRESS/Chris Young

The other, a university student who worked in his office when Brown was a federal Conservative MP, alleges Brown sexually assaulted her following an event she helped organize.

Brown's lawyer has responded, saying that Brown "categorically denies these false and defamatory allegations."

Both incidents are alleged to have happened inside Brown’s home in Barrie, Ont., after the women had been drinking in his presence.

Brown, a well-reported teetotaler, was not drinking alcohol at the time of the alleged incidents, both women told CTV News.

CTV News has agreed to protect the identities of the women who have come forward.

The first incident occurred more than 10 years ago. The woman, a high school student in Barrie at the time, said she and a mutual friend met Brown at a bar.

Brown then invited them back to his home and provided them with alcohol, though the woman was under the legal drinking age at the time.

She says she was drunk when Brown invited her for a tour of his home. When the pair entered the bedroom, Brown closed the door and exposed his penis to her.

"He pulled down his pants said, and I don’t know if he said 'suck my dick' or 'put this in your mouth,' but something along those lines,” she said.

The woman alleges that he then asked her to perform oral sex, which she did for a short time before stopping.

“It was like a controlling thing… like I just remember I wanted to go, but that wasn’t happening."

She says she then left his house and went to a nearby friend’s place.

"He's an old, single, politician preying on young girls. He’s just a sad person," the now-29 year old said.

Another woman came forward with a similar story, detailing her time working for the MP in then-prime minister Stephen Harper’s government. She spoke to CTV News in an on-camera interview.

She said she met the then-Conservative MP in November 2012 on an Air Canada flight when she was 18, coming home from university.

Hours after the flight, at 11:21 p.m. -- a time that was verified by social media accounts viewed by CTV News -- Brown sent the woman a message: "Are you impressed I remembered your name? I am.. LOL"

Brown gave the woman his phone number and the names of Barrie bars that he’d be at that night, offering her help to skip any lineups, even though she was 18 at the time -- below Ontario’s legal drinking age.

"I kinda laughed it off as an older man… hitting on me," the former staffer said.

She didn't take him up on the offer, but months later when she was looking for a summer job she reached out to Brown and asked if he had any openings or if he knew of other opportunities.

After an interview in his Parliament Hill office, Brown hired her to work in his Barrie constituency office.

Brown tasked her with organizing the Hockey Night in Barrie charity game he hosts annually. Emails from Brown viewed by CTV News confirmed this.

"You know you are my favourite :)" writes Brown in an email to the woman days before the Aug. 15, 2013 event.

At an after-party in a now-closed local nightclub, The Bank, the woman says Brown and others provided her with a string of free alcoholic beverages. She was by then legal age.

"It was too many to count," the former staffer said.

When the bar closed, the party moved to Brown's home, all captured on social media.

The woman says she was extremely drunk when Brown invited her and a male friend of his to Brown’s bedroom to look at photographs of a trip to Asia stored on his iPad.

Brown's friend then left, leaving her and Brown to sit alone on the bed.

"The next thing I know he's kissing me. Sitting beside me, kissing me and then I was, I kind of just froze up. He continued to kiss me and he laid me down on the bed and got on top of me. I remember consciously trying not to move my mouth and I was just not moving, so I was laying there immobile and he kept kissing me," she said.

"I felt it was sexual. I could feel his erection on my legs when he was on top of me so I felt that it would have gone to sexual intercourse if I had not done anything," she said. "I would characterize that as a sexual assault."

"That scenario, like of a very inebriated young employee in the bedroom of her boss, alone with him, who hasn’t had a drop of alcohol all night, just that’s an intimidating situation and I was not sure what to do about it," the former staffer said.

She told him to stop, saying she had a boyfriend and told Brown to take her home, which he did, driving her back to her parents’ house.

The woman said she did not report it to authorities or otherwise because she didn’t know what options she had, and tried to move on.

"I didn’t think that there was any sort of recourse that I could take because I did think this is something that in maybe in another job, I would go to maybe HR about. But I didn’t feel, I didn’t even know who HR was in this context. Particularly being in a constituency office. I mean, I just didn’t know what to do."

Brown often travels to India. After the party, the woman says he pressed her to join him as his assistant on an India trip, promising all expenses would be paid. He also gave her a raise.

"He told me that I, you know, he thought that I would look really good on an elephant," she said. "I remember thinking, well, 'Would I have my own hotel room? … I remember thinking, is there some sort of expectation?'"

She later spoke with her father about the incident and the invitation.

"I just remember feeling so relieved that I told somebody," the former staffer said.

CTV has spoken to her father, who corroborated her version of events. He encouraged her to reject the offer.

Three other people close to her also confirm that she recounted the incident with Brown to them in the months that followed.

The woman chose to return to work for Brown the following summer.

"The reason I kept working there was, I wanted to in some way and try and, despite the fact that this happened, I didn’t want to let this impede on what I saw then as a career opportunity."

During the second summer, her job included driving Brown to various events. It was during these drives that she alleges Brown made inappropriate comments to her including about a woman he had sexual relations with, and about wanting to find an older version of her to marry.

"I felt at that point it was kind of part of the job," she said.

Brown resigned his federal seat after winning the leadership of the Ontario PC Party in 2015. He now threatens to topple Liberal Leader Kathleen Wynne and become Ontario’s next premier in the June provincial election.

His former staffer says she is speaking out now to support other women who have had similar experiences.

"I don’t think that any woman young or old should be subjected to that and put in a situation where they have to decide between the career opportunity that’s in front of them and being-- taking themselves out of a situation that’s at best uncomfortable and at worst unsafe."

Brown has denied these allegations.

None of the allegations have been proven in court.


https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/patrick-brown-denies-sexual-misconduct-allegations-from-two-women-1.3774686
RCO





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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

( Patrick Brown appears to have resigned and its not clear what his future in politics is or if he will even run in the election or not ? )



Ontario PC leader Patrick Brown resigns over sexual allegations


David Reevely

Published on: January 25, 2018 | Last Updated: January 25, 2018 6:34 AM EST


Ontario PC Leader Patrick Brown addresses allegations against him at Queen's Park in Toronto, Ont. on Wednesday January 24, 2018. Ernest Doroszuk


Ontario Progressive Conservative leader Patrick Brown resigned early Thursday morning after denying allegations of sexual impropriety dating back years.

He’d called a sudden press conference at Queen’s Park Wednesday night, just ahead of a report on CTV’s national news, which reported allegations from two unnamed women. One said he’d asked her for oral sex when she was still in high school and he was a Barrie city councillor, by dropping his pants. The other said he’d assaulted her when she worked for him when he was a federal MP, at a time when she was extremely drunk.

None filed a complaint at the time, CTV reported.

“These allegations are false,” a tearful Brown said. “Every one of them. I will defend myself as hard as I can, with all the means at my disposal. I can’t speculate on the motive of my accusers, I can only say they what they are saying is categorically untrue.”

He spoke for about a minute and walked out without taking questions.


Rapidly, six of his top aides — chief of staff Alykhan Velshi, campaign manager Andrew Boddington, deputy campaign manager Joshua Workman, strategist Dan Robertson, press secretary Nick Bergamini, and policy adviser Ken Boessenkool, many of them veterans of Stephen Harper’s federal government — resigned. They said they’d urged Brown to quit as party leader but he’d refused.


“Mr. Brown will have to go,” said Lanark-Frontenac-Lennox and Addington Tory MPP Randy Hillier, at about 10:15 Wednesday night. “The campaign team has resigned and I’m confident they know more about this than I do. We don’t have a campaign team or a leader at the present time.”

Nepean-Carleton Tory MPP Lisa MacLeod, in a statement, didn’t say whether she believed Brown should remain or resign. But she did say that everyone has the right to be free from unwelcome advances.

“It takes courage to come forward and make these claims,” she said. “These women deserve our support and thanks.”

Niagara MP Sam Oosterhoff called on Brown to quit. Then so did nominated London North candidate Susan Truppe, a former federal Conservative MP. And then former federal minister Ed Holder, who was seeking the party nomination in London West.

After a frantic round of calls, Brown realized he had no support left from his caucus or his party. He resigned before 1:30 a.m., less than four hours after his defiant news conference.

“These allegations are false and have been difficult to hear,” his statement said. “However, defeating Kathleen Wynne in 2018 is more important than one individual.

“For this reason, after consulting with caucus, friends and family I have decided to step down as leader of the Ontario PC Party. I will remain on as a MPP while I definitively clear my name from these false allegations.”

The party’s deputy leaders, Leeds-Grenville MPP Steve Clark and Dufferin-Caledon MPP Sylvia Jones, followed up with a statement saying they’ll immediately start figuring out how to replace him. Names that arose immediately included MacLeod, Vic Fedeli (the party’s stalwart finance critic), Caroline Mulroney (a finance executive, philanthropist and daughter of former prime minister Brian Mulroney, running as a first-time candidate in York-Simcoe) and Christine Elliott (the leading establishment candidate Brown defeated for the PC leadership, now the provincial ombudsman for the health system).

It’s a stunning turnaround for a man who started Wednesday with a strong chance of becoming Ontario’s premier in five months.

Brown ran as an outsider candidate for the Progressive Conservative leadership, won it by outworking Elliott, and then dragged the party to the political centre — embracing carbon pricing, a modern sex-education curriculum and a bigger role for government in numerous social services — while promising to be a better manager of the people’s business.

He brought in political operators who’ve worked on winning campaigns before and worked in multiple conservative governments, adding gravity to a provincial party that’s shrivelled further in every election since 2003.

Wynne and her Liberals aren’t pushovers, but the question of the campaign up to the provincial election due in June was supposed to be whether they could claw their way back somehow.

Now the formidable Tory team is in pieces, leaderless and for the moment without a campaign braintrust.

Since reporting on the predatory behaviour of Hollywood executive Harvey Weinstein broke the dam on sexual-misconduct stories about powerful men, most of the cases have involved men who admitted they’d done wrong. Some have quibbled about the details or said they’d been partly misinterpreted, or misinterpreted signals themselves, but the general tone has been of contrition.

For Brown to pay the price he’s paid, for allegations he directly and completely denies, will raise questions about the differences among legal justice, moral justice, and political justice.

He suggested he will sue his accusers: “I know that the court of public opinion moves fast. I have instructed my attorneys to ensure that these allegations are addressed where they should be: in a court of law,” he said.


http://ottawacitizen.com/news/.....llegations
RCO





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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

its unfortunate Brown wasn't given more time to defend himself or explain the allegations , the problem was in the current environment allegations of sexual harassment are far too toxic and the pc caucus simply didn't want to deal with the mess , even if they turn out to be false down the road .


allegation # 1 sounds fictional , does anyone really believe an mp would go to a bar in there home riding , pick up some random 18 year old they had never meet before and then try and take them home ? and then expose themselves to them . surely any mp would realise they'd be a target for blackmail or sexual harassment allegations and wouldn't try and pick up a random girl who they knew nothing about ?

it just sounds made up and fact accuser was never revealed publicly leads to more questions ? who is this now 29 year old woman ? is she well known in Barrie and the bar scene . would people consider her to be credible ? does she have any involvement with any of the local political campaigns in the city ? how has her life turned out ? does she have a career and income ?


allegation # 2 is more confusing to understand , it appears this women did in fact know him , she worked in his office and has photo's of them together . maybe Patrick had a crush on her ? I really have no idea . she never provided any evidence he did anything illegal , he bought her a few drinks and claims he tried to kiss her , but its difficult to figure out what really happened , its a she said / he said situation and unclear why she decided to come forward now ?
RCO





Joined: 02 Mar 2009
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Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

( the media is now admitting they had to go to considerable lengths to get these women to come forward , ctv news is saying they verified details of the stories , although one would wonder how it would even be possible to verify a 10 year old story that originated from a night out at bar , its doubtful any witnesses remember the alleged encounter and is no witnesses from inside the brown home to verify if this girl was even there or even knew him, the first allegation seems to lack any real evidence )



Women who accused Brown of misconduct were reluctant to speak out: CTV reporter


CTV's Glen McGregor says the women now accusing Patrick Brown of sexual misconduct were not "shopping their stories around."


Codi Wilson, CP24.com
Published Thursday, January 25, 2018 9:16AM EST
Last Updated Thursday, January 25, 2018 9:43AM EST


Two women who have accused Ontario PC Leader Patrick Brown of sexual misconduct were initially hesitant to speak out, CTV News’ senior political correspondent Glen McGregor says.

Speaking to CP24 on Thursday morning, McGregor, who was the first to report on the allegations, said the women were not “shopping their stories around” to media outlets.

“They didn’t come to us. We had to go to considerable lengths to reach them and convince them that they should tell their story and that they’d be protected. Then we had to do a lot of leg work to confirm details in their story, verify a lot of things that they had said,” McGregor noted.


On Wednesday night, CTV News reported that two women, who have not been identified, came forward with allegations of sexual misconduct.

Brown, who is not facing any criminal charges in connection with the accusations, has denied all allegations against him and has vowed to clear his name.

The alleged incidents, according to CTV News, occurred when Brown was a federal Member of Parliament and took place at his home in Barrie.

In the story, CTV News said one of the women, who is now 29, said she was still in high school when she was asked to perform oral sex.

CTV News reported that the second woman said she was a university student and was employed at Brown’s constituency office in Barrie when she was allegedly sexually assaulted in his home.

Both women, according to CTV News, said they had been drinking at the time of the alleged incidents and Brown had not consumed any alcohol.

The explosive allegations came out late Wednesday night, prompting Brown to call an impromptu press conference at Queen’s Park, where he denied any wrongdoing.

Brown, who was visibly emotional at the news conference, called the allegations "troubling” and “false,” adding that he could not “speculate on the motive” of the women making the accusations.

Hours later, Brown announced that he would be resigning from his position as leader but would continue to work as an MPP.

“These allegations are false and have been difficult to hear,” Brown said in a written statement released early Thursday morning.

“However, defeating Kathleen Wynne in 2018 is more important than one individual. For this reason, after consulting with caucus, friends and family I have decided to step down as Leader of the Ontario PC Party.”

McGregor was quick to point out that none of the allegations against Brown have been proven in court.

“Neither of the women who are involved in bringing this forward to CTV ever filed complaints with the police or employers or anything like that. They never took any civil action,” he said. “It’s never been tested in court. These allegations have never gone before a judge or jury or anything like that so they are simply that, allegations, at this point, which he (Brown), as you heard, emphatically denies.”

McGregor said rumours have long been circulating about sexual harassment on Parliament Hill.

“Parliament Hill is a situation where you have, by definition, a lot of middle age men and a lot of young women staff,” he said.

“You have this basic built-in power imbalance and you have up here a lot of events. Pretty much any day of the week when the house is sitting, you can go somewhere and there (are) parties with MPs and free wine flowing all the time. So it’s a problematic situation.”


https://www.cp24.com/news/women-who-accused-brown-of-misconduct-were-reluctant-to-speak-out-ctv-reporter-1.3775056
Bugs





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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, the women may well be reluctant, given the libel laws in Canada. Remember how quick Wynne was to threaten Brown with libel?

The legal trick is this -- to make such bare allegations in this environment is evidence of malice. The allegations alone will destroy Brown's life, now that his party has thrown him to the dogs. So the defendant has to show (a) that the charges are true, and (b) that the revelations were not motivated by malice. Good luck with that.

So, going public like that can have legal consequences, even if you're a girl.

But there's a legal wrinkle. If you register a law-suit, you can quote the allegations in those filings because they're public documents. And that's what they do. And that's what the babes who are ripping Adam Schultz's life apart are doing , as well.

t protects these people from potential libel charges.
Toronto Centre





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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suppose we now know the reason he was so quiet lately.

Im never comfortable with these things. Allegations are hard to knock down. The reaction is more telling to me than anything else.

Witness the Ford brothers. Always claiming the opposite and shouting we will sue..... and they never even tried to follow through, ergo probably true allegations. (Dougs hash selling days in particular)

The fact that his staff was asking him to resign in the past few days (weeks?) and then also resigned after he did tells me there has to be truth involved.

Dont care what political stripe is worn, are all these idiots really this stupid?

It would appear so.

Maybe I should take up politics.... aint nothing in my background that would cause any concern . Does it pay well?
Bugs





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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

More thoughts: This has to have been planned. It's being revealed at the very best time from Wynne's point of view. Probably what she foresaw is Brown pushing back against the story, giving it legs, and with the embers still glowing as spring approaches, and with it, the official campaign.

If these women have not filed a lawsuit, Brown should file his, and right away.

If I am right, and this was organized as part of Wynne's campaign, it speaks to my point about the importance of confronting the social engineering efforts of the state. Trust me on this: success breeds success. This won't stop as long as it succeeds.

This isn't the result of the frustration of women of talent being held back. This is the result of a triumphant group seeking revenge for imagined sins to their female ancestors. This is because of the tribalism of women, and how they will support a woman over a man in virtually every case. This has to do with how the electorate is manipulated through pseudo-events.

The "royal jelly" required in this case is the stuff that can counter this onslaught. People who refuse to see the problem cannot possibly find that right form of "royal jelly". We/you end up throwing the one effective emerging Conservative leader overboard with the first whimper from some sniffing unidentified female making charges of ... 'awkwardness? ... at worst!

This is not a coming-in-your-bedroom-window rape. It was a rebuffed advance, always something 'awkward'. We have only heard one side of the story and haven't discussed incentives. If the women were reluctant, they nust have received somethig to overcome that reluctance. On to of that, we never even heard Brown's side of the story, but the women's story seems to fall far short of the penalty being imposed.

But, at the heart of it, I feel a kind of contempt for the leadership of the Conservatives, that they have so little sense of right-and-wrong that they will react the way they have.

This won't stop on its own. It has to be stopped.
RCO





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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
More thoughts: This has to have been planned. It's being revealed at the very best time from Wynne's point of view. Probably what she foresaw is Brown pushing back against the story, giving it legs, and with the embers still glowing as spring approaches, and with it, the official campaign.

If these women have not filed a lawsuit, Brown should file his, and right away.

If I am right, and this was organized as part of Wynne's campaign, it speaks to my point about the importance of confronting the social engineering efforts of the state. Trust me on this: success breeds success. This won't stop as long as it succeeds.

This isn't the result of the frustration of women of talent being held back. This is the result of a triumphant group seeking revenge for imagined sins to their female ancestors. This is because of the tribalism of women, and how they will support a woman over a man in virtually every case. This has to do with how the electorate is manipulated through pseudo-events.

The "royal jelly" required in this case is the stuff that can counter this onslaught. People who refuse to see the problem cannot possibly find that right form of "royal jelly". We/you end up throwing the one effective emerging Conservative leader overboard with the first whimper from some sniffing unidentified female making charges of ... 'awkwardness? ... at worst!

This is not a coming-in-your-bedroom-window rape. It was a rebuffed advance, always something 'awkward'. We have only heard one side of the story and haven't discussed incentives. If the women were reluctant, they nust have received somethig to overcome that reluctance. On to of that, we never even heard Brown's side of the story, but the women's story seems to fall far short of the penalty being imposed.

But, at the heart of it, I feel a kind of contempt for the leadership of the Conservatives, that they have so little sense of right-and-wrong that they will react the way they have.

This won't stop on its own. It has to be stopped.



its clear that this had to be planned well in advance by the Toronto based media , they even admit in the one article I posted that they had to go to great lengths to get the women to even come forward and appear before a camera . they reached out to them , someone in the CTV office in Toronto decided this political assassination was a top priority

so it does sound like someone was searching around Barrie , brown's hometown looking for dirt and came across these stories and potentially others from his days when he was an mp .

no one is denying Brown likely spent some time downtown , in bars or restaurants , but doesn't everyone ? there has never been a single police report alleging brown ever did anything to cause harm to a female in downtown barrie .

the guy is the most sober person downtown , he doesn't even drink . the idea he had enough " game " to pick up some hot 18 year old in a club downtown and get her to his place all in 1 night is purely fiction . I don't even believe that allegation for 1 second . it doesn't make any sense and doesn't even sound believable
RCO





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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

( its also not clear what happens in Barrie Springwater Oro Medonte , the riding brown was nominated to run in. even if the allegations are proven to be unfounded , that could take months or years to pass thru the legal system , the election is in June or earlier )



Simcoe County PC riding association members weigh in on Patrick Brown resignation

Police have not received a formal complaint against former PC leader

News 12:05 PM by Rick Vanderlinde  , Frank Matys  Barrie Advance|



Two local Progressive Conservative Party riding association members had differing reactions to the sudden resignation Jan. 25 of leader Patrick Brown.

Scott Macpherson, a longtime Brown supporter and past president of the PC’s Simcoe North riding association, said he was “saddened” by the situation.

“I hope that these allegations are proved to be unfounded,” Macpherson told Simcoe.com. “He had a promising, bright future ahead of him and had nothing but a successful track record behind him.”


CTV News reported two unknown women claim they were sexually assaulted by Brown about 10 years ago. Brown has denied the allegations.

Brown stepped down as leader of the party, but remains MPP in Simcoe North and is nominated to run in the Barrie-Springwater-Oro-Medonte riding in June’s provincial election.

“These allegations are false and have been difficult to hear,” Brown said in a statement. “I will remain on as a MPP while I definitively clear my name from these false allegations.”

The PC caucus will meet today to elect an interim leader.

In the meantime, the Barrie-Springwater-Oro-Medonte PC riding association is staying mum on the matter for now, including the implications for Brown’s re-election bid.

“I will not be making any statements regarding this issue at this time,” riding association president Garry Perkins said. “I will await direction from PCPO party headquarters moving forward. Any comments from the local association right now would be premature.”


https://www.simcoe.com/news-story/8091650-simcoe-county-pc-riding-association-members-weigh-in-on-patrick-brown-resignation/
Toronto Centre





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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
More thoughts:

If these women have not filed a lawsuit, Brown should file his, and right away.


He'll get on that just like the Ford Brothers have done. Stay tuned, its only been 4 years or so.

Any day now.
Toronto Centre





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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RCO wrote:

its clear that this had to be planned well in advance by the Toronto based media

Awesome !

Now fill in the details on how the Toronto based media planned the nights in question, who paid for the drinks, who found the young women.... details we all need to know.

And how did the Toronto media figure years later Patrick would be the PC head? Crystal ball ? Man, of all people they sure laid their bets correctly.

Quote:
the idea he had enough " game " to pick up some hot 18 year old in a club downtown and get her to his place all in 1 night is purely fiction . I don't even believe that allegation for 1 second . it doesn't make any sense and doesn't even sound believable


Patrick resigns , his staff resigns , he leaves in a hurry after making a very late (and thats telling as is) call for a presser ................ and not for a second you believe it.

Guess what? Patrick believes it . Believe in Patrick and lose all this made up by Toronto media , its a lame response down south and the same up here.
RCO





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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toronto Centre wrote:
RCO wrote:

its clear that this had to be planned well in advance by the Toronto based media

Awesome !

Now fill in the details on how the Toronto based media planned the nights in question, who paid for the drinks, who found the young women.... details we all need to know.

And how did the Toronto media figure years later Patrick would be the PC head? Crystal ball ? Man, of all people they sure laid their bets correctly.

Quote:
the idea he had enough " game " to pick up some hot 18 year old in a club downtown and get her to his place all in 1 night is purely fiction . I don't even believe that allegation for 1 second . it doesn't make any sense and doesn't even sound believable


Patrick resigns , his staff resigns , he leaves in a hurry after making a very late (and thats telling as is) call for a presser ................ and not for a second you believe it.

Guess what? Patrick believes it . Believe in Patrick and lose all this made up by Toronto media , its a lame response down south and the same up here.



you can read the articles I posted , CTV is openly admitting they had to find these women and encouraged them to come forward and that media in Toronto had been looking into this story for some time , it didn't all come together last night suddenly , this was weeks and months in the making , they did a lot of research and searching to put together this story

maybe its just me but I've been to a lot of bars and restaurants over the years and allegation # 1 just doesn't sound right . she can't provide any reason for why she'd even be connected to brown in any way other than a claim she meet him in a bar , when she wasn't even old enough to be in a bar .

and then provides a story that reads like a scene out of a bad sit com , meeting him randomly in a bar , going home with him ( even though she didn't even know him ? ) why would any attractive 18 year old go home with a 30 plus year old man from a bar they didn't even know before the night started ? and then supposedly perform a sex act on him .

I don't believe it for 1 second and anyone who does is not looking at the facts , if she provides some evidence i'll change my mind but 10 years after the fact I doubt highly any exists

and if Patrick Brown had really picked up an 18 year old ? in a busy bar in downtown barrie and took her home . wouldn't people have seen this ? it sounds like the kind of thing a lot of people would of talked about , but there isn't any witnesses to this event , surely someone would of seen them leave the bar together or get in a taxi

but the number 1 reason I don't believe it , cause I've meet Patrick and there is no way a sober Patrick Brown has enough game or player in him to pick up an 18 year old at a club and take her home all in one night , just no way
Toronto Centre





Joined: 12 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RCO wrote:


you can read the articles I posted , CTV is openly admitting they had to find these women and encouraged them to come forward and that media in Toronto had been looking into this story for some time , it didn't all come together last night suddenly , this was weeks and months in the making , they did a lot of research and searching to put together this story

Let me fix this a bit..."...we knew there were allegations and followed up on those"

Your incredulity is amazing.

To think CTV or any media outlet made this news is well.... There were whispers at QP. They followed and voila !
Patrick is caught with his pants down . Pun intended.
Quote:

maybe its just me but I've been to a lot of bars and restaurants over the years and allegation # 1 just doesn't sound right . she can't provide any reason for why she'd even be connected to brown in any way other than a claim she meet him in a bar , when she wasn't even old enough to be in a bar .

What part troubles you ?
An underage girl(s) (18 so easy to think 19) in a bar?
An underage girl(s) getting hit on by some sleezeball older guy ?
An unmarried pretty well known (for Barrie anyway) Politician for the area. CTV Barrie only has hi photo up on screen once or twice a week.

Her Daddy confirmed the story too.
Quote:

and then provides a story that reads like a scene out of a bad sit com , meeting him randomly in a bar , going home with him ( even though she didn't even know him ? ) why would any attractive 18 year old go home with a 30 plus year old man from a bar they didn't even know before the night started ? and then supposedly perform a sex act on him .

18 yr old in the prsence of greatness ! Who wouldnt !

Come on, dumb kids can do things we just dont understand all the time.
Quote:

I don't believe it for 1 second and anyone who does is not looking at the facts , if she provides some evidence i'll change my mind but 10 years after the fact I doubt highly any exists

You can hide your head in the sand . But you cannot opine this stupidly when the actions of the accused ....re-read that again, the actions of the accused were to ...
1) call a presser at 1AM- Red flag, dont wanna face the hordes in the morning
2) says what he had to say and then ran into a wating car.
3) resigned and so did his staff.

Those actions say yes, what I am being accused of have some merit.

Quote:

but the number 1 reason I don't believe it , cause I've meet Patrick and there is no way a sober Patrick Brown has enough game or player in him to pick up an 18 year old at a club and take her home all in one night , just no way


This is the guy who made it his life work to hob knob with celebrities, hockey players and hangers on who could help.

Dopnt forget, Gretzky , Hawerchuk et al endorsed him and he threw a tourney featuring famous folk so he could hob knob.

Maybe he showed these women the photos of his famous " friends" and they thought he was cool.

I dunno....but there is definitely substance to this.
Bugs





Joined: 16 Dec 2009
Posts: 5856
Reputation: 286
votes: 8

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as I know, these are unsourced allegations made by women whose identity is being protected, and who would not have come forward on their own. We don't even know when this happened. It feels like it was a long time ago.

Is there anything that can be fact-checked that is conclusive?

How much credibility do they have? We have a right to know because there is no evidence here. There are two allegations, at best, and no evidence. One story is not evidence for the other case.

But in the end -- and this is why resigning is wrong -- by resigning, Brown has symbolically paid the price. It doesn't matter if he's not guilty -- he's gone. The public will think he's guilty.

Stupid. stupid, stupid ...
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Defining Patrick -- the swamp strikes first

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