Home FAQ Search Memberlist User Groups Register Login   

BloggingTories.ca Forum IndexBloggingTories.ca Forum Index
    Index     FAQ     Search     Register     Login         JOIN THE DISCUSSION - CLICK HERE      

*NEW* Login or register using your Facebook account.

Not a member? Join the fastest growing conservative community!
Membership is free and takes 15 seconds


CLICK HERE or use Facebook to login or register ----> Connect



Goto page Previous  1, 2  

Post new topic   Reply to topic Page 2 of 2
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Bugs





Joined: 16 Dec 2009
Posts: 4373
Reputation: 245.2
votes: 8

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toronto Centre wrote:

Karla Homolka. Yes, I do remember it very well, sadly I see your memory does not afford you the same.
They did give her a plea deal. It came very shortly after the Police, who had possession of the house for a month, could not find a bunch of video's in the ceiling of the house (bathroom IIRC)
The cops were stumped and the Crown knew it. If they could get her to testify against Paul they would win big. No one, including Bernardos lawyer thought Karla able to go along with all of it.She seemed to be a picture of while not innocence but naivety (my interpretation)
So, the Crown was facing a hard road ahead. A long trial and they wanted it done. The COps had nothing for them, except the Cops screwed up horrible on all of this.


This is a distraction. If you are happy with Homulka/Guy Paul Morin/Mike Duffy level justice, then just shut up. Some of us expect better for the money we are paying. I don't know how you defend it. I got my facts early, things are often corrected in minor ways in court rooms, but I cite stuff that was published or on CBC radio. I have no feelings about Michael Bryant as a person whatever. It is the way the courts and police accomodate privilege, always a problem, but which here is clearly out of control. Literally.

The Karla Homulka case illustrates the same thing. What your rendition doesn't disclose is that the Crown started out with the idea that Karla was a battered housewife. The deal they gave her was sold on the basis that she would get a 12 year sentence, and be out in four years. During that time, she could get her degree and live for a couple of years in a half-way house.

But she killed her own sister, and it was to be a surprise for Paul! That means she and she alone did it, and she did not confess to it. It was at least manslaughter, though I don't know why drugging your own sister and offering her for deflowering is exactly one-down from murder. The legal point is that all these deals are made conditional on full disclosure, or the the deal is kaput. As it turned out, the third one was thrown in as a freeby by the AG's office. And tell me that isn't factual.

The videos showed that Karla was an enthusiastic participant. She was not a battered housewife, whatever else. Was she the one who persuaded the Scaroborough Rapist to bring the girls home, perhaps, and thus become a murderer? Very likely.

But the AGs judgement was that the poor girl only did all of this stuff because he made her do it. Sisterhood was a big part of it.

That's the judgement -- or lack of it -- that I am talking about.

The judgement that bows and scrapes, and does not ask the perp to blow into the tube ... under the circumstances ... and alters the crime scene by leaving ... and all the rest. No, sorry, I don't think that if this happened to Joe Blow from Misissauga, that they would have been so cavalier. This "Oh, you don't know anything, the police often ..." stuff isn't persuasive. I'm sure they do but in this case, someone was killed.

I don't know if the police did an investigation or a coverup. Do you?

The police ripped up the floors in the basement. The house later had to be demolished, yet they never found the tapes. They had the wrong description of the car. Bernardo was stopped a couple of times, but let go because it was the wrong kind of car. It was bungle on top of bungle, all the way down.

It isn't as if these guys are good at what they do. It's not like on TV.
Toronto Centre





Joined: 12 Feb 2011
Posts: 633
Reputation: 93.6Reputation: 93.6
votes: 3
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:


This is a distraction.


Actually it is a reply. Dont want to know , dont ask.
Quote:
If you are happy with Homulka/Guy Paul Morin/Mike Duffy level justice, then just shut up. Some of us expect better for the money we are paying. I don't know how you defend it. I got my facts early, things are often corrected in minor ways in court rooms, but I cite stuff that was published or on CBC radio.

So apart from not being able to remember now you have some sort of interpretation of what was never said?

I am not happy with how it went down. How do you come to that conclusion? I merely stated the record and corrected the falsehoods that abound with your 'memory'. GP Morin was railroaded . Everyone knows that, the Detective to this day refuses to believe and is an idiot for it.
Sheesh....dont ascribe what is not there.
Quote:

The Karla Homulka case illustrates the same thing. What your rendition doesn't disclose is that the Crown started out with the idea that Karla was a battered housewife. The deal they gave her was sold on the basis that she would get a 12 year sentence, and be out in four years. During that time, she could get her degree and live for a couple of years in a half-way house.

I have no doubts, and certainly no qualms about Karla being the battered wife , as per the times then. It was a reasonable projection , yet would have been obliterated had the Cops been on the same team.
You have a rapist, known to police, and two women go missing and are dead. Karla had no connection to the rapist of scarborough, projection suggests that it would be Paul who is the bad guy, so lets make sure we get him.
They did.

But they could have had Karla rotting away beside him. But they dont, and we know why.
Quote:

But she killed her own sister, and it was to be a surprise for Paul!

Not true. Sorry.
They did drug her to be unconscious, but she woke up and they gave her something Karla had stolen from the Vets office. They gave her that, but she woke again and started vomiting. The ambulance was called yet she died of asphixiation from vomit.
Quote:
That means she and she alone did it, and she did not confess to it. It was at least manslaughter, though I don't know why drugging your own sister and offering her for deflowering is exactly one-down from murder. The legal point is that all these deals are made conditional on full disclosure, or the the deal is kaput. As it turned out, the third one was thrown in as a freeby by the AG's office. And tell me that isn't factual.

Again, Wrong. <sigh>
Her plea bargain took into account the death of her sister. Its there in the agreement. Pauls charges included the sisters death. Both were sentenced w Tammys death included for sentencing.

Once the deal is struck, it is struck. There were numerous legal minds trying to find a way around all of this, but none would stick. A deal is a deal .
Quote:

The videos showed that Karla was an enthusiastic participant. She was not a battered housewife, whatever else.

We all know that. But a deal is a deal.
Quote:

Was she the one who persuaded the Scaroborough Rapist to bring the girls home, perhaps, and thus become a murderer? Very likely.

Nope, Paul copped to all of those and never mentioned Karla or her involvement. I will paraphrase, but Paul was said to tell theb detectives, " all the girls in scarborough I am the cause, Karla didnt know about"
Quote:

But the AGs judgement was that the poor girl only did all of this stuff because he made her do it. Sisterhood was a big part of it.

The AG goes on what is sent to him/her from the police. So yes, of course they thought that (police) .

Sisterhood has nothing to do with any of this.
Quote:

That's the judgement -- or lack of it -- that I am talking about.

As clear as mud at night then.
Quote:

The judgement that bows and scrapes, and does not ask the perp to blow into the tube ... under the circumstances ... and alters the crime scene by leaving ... and all the rest.

Blow test for DUI...done. Zero's all around except for the drunk, Darcy Sheppard.
Didnt leave the scene as per HTA rules, ergo and of course by leaving the accident one couldnt POSSIBLY alter the scene .
Again.....facts, pesky pesky facts.
Quote:

I don't know if the police did an investigation or a coverup. Do you?

Lets see, a Special Prosecutor brought to avoid conflict. The TPS certainly investigated as well as they do (lots of times not so well)
His lawyer was a woman named Marie Hienan.

Does that name ring a bell? Her investigation was beyond reproach. She found lots of info the police didnt find.

So yes, I am confortable enough was done. Hell, Darcy's own father was accepting of the sequence of events. Of course he knew how horrible Darcy suffered from mental issues and alcohol .
Quote:

The police ripped up the floors in the basement. The house later had to be demolished, yet they never found the tapes. They had the wrong description of the car. Bernardo was stopped a couple of times, but let go because it was the wrong kind of car. It was bungle on top of bungle, all the way down.

Corrections: (1) The police had the house for a month. A whole month and its a roughly 1400 sf Cape Cod style house.

A month. 30 days. One twelfth of a year.

You couldnt hide a paperback anywhere in a house that size that I couldnt find in half the time, especially when they have licence to remove walls, floors etc.

(2) The house was considered a blight on the town of Port Dalhousie that the decision was made to have it removed/torn down. Remained an empty lot for a few years then was sold and another family built another house there but with a new street number.
Quote:

It isn't as if these guys are good at what they do. It's not like on TV.
The Police?
Yup, I agree .
Bugs





Joined: 16 Dec 2009
Posts: 4373
Reputation: 245.2
votes: 8

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is an extreme case of message drift.

You make stuff up. They had the Scarborough Rapists DNA on file. They had Paul in custody. Connect the dots. It wouldn't have been that hard to get a guilty verdict for the rapes -- which would get him off the street for years. They also had a surprisingly accurate 'sketch artist' piece to help identify the Scarboro Rapist.

They didn't need Karla. I think she went to the police and offered him up, anyway. It wasn't a case of brilliant police work. It was a case of her turning Paul in for revenge. You deny that the murder of Tammy, Karla's sister, was a murder, and just an accidental death from being too zoned out to clear her breathing system. That isn't at least manslaughter? And let's not forget the "gift" angl, the 'deflowering' thingy.

It would have been interesting to know how a jury would look at that.

As far as I am concerned, Tammy died as a direct result of Karla poisoning her. Her life was a 'throw-in' on the plea deal rather than the deal-breaker it ought to have been. Isn't that enough to demonstrate at least moral lunacy, and a stunted sense of fundamental justice. Not qualities you want in top officials administering the courts.

It was kind of a "3 murders for the price of two" deal, wasn't it?

Why would any legal official treat this as of no consequence? Wouldn't the more expected reaction be to -- perhaps -- give her the 12 years for what she and Paul did, as per the deal. And then charge her for the murder/manslaughter of her sister. Why would that be wrong?

The same people, with the same biased judgements, are making the same kind of decisions as always. These are the people who never bothered checking the evidence of the Ghomeshi perjurers, for example. Why aren't those women in Court themselves? It certainly looks as if the Courts don't have the stomach to treat women the same way they would treat male offenders. Which is, of course, not the kind of inequality we want.

You make a point of missing the point. If you don't get it, there really is no point.
Toronto Centre





Joined: 12 Feb 2011
Posts: 633
Reputation: 93.6Reputation: 93.6
votes: 3
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
This is an extreme case of message drift.

Probably best to to use the term 'an extreme case of making shit up' .
Quote:

You make stuff up. They had the Scarborough Rapists DNA on file. They had Paul in custody. Connect the dots.

LOL! You fall back position to being pantsed...once again.

They had 50,000 DNA samples on file, one (1) Scientist and one Technician.
Add in the fact that DNA testing was in its infancy at the time and well, that blows your whole scenario right there.
But wait...theres more !

They didnt have Paul in custody, they had interviewed him twice at his parents home and dismissed him as a likely suspect.

So connecting the dots would be useless as there were no dots.

How bad do you want to look here ? Cuz...ya know , you are so far off base it isnt funny anymore.

Alas, you arent done with the falsehoods are you?
Quote:

It wouldn't have been that hard to get a guilty verdict for the rapes -- which would get him off the street for years. They also had a surprisingly accurate 'sketch artist' piece to help identify the Scarboro Rapist.

Wouldnt be hard? No DNA match (yet), no suspect yet.....so?

Did you know (rhetorically of course ) that of 16,000 responses to the sketch artists only three said to check Paul Bernardo?
Quote:

They didn't need Karla. I think she went to the police and offered him up, anyway. It wasn't a case of brilliant police work. It was a case of her turning Paul in for revenge.

Good lord man....
Karla was admitted to hospital in January of 1993 due to being beaten by Paul. Thats when she turned on him.
It was a month later (Feb'93) that DNA was finally matched to Paul. So , recap, rapes occurred over a five (5) year period, 24 of them. ....took forever to match him up.
Quote:

You deny that the murder of Tammy,

Death. Tammy died. It wasn't a murder. Horrible as it is, the facts are clear.
Quote:

Karla's sister, was a murder, and just an accidental death from being too zoned out to clear her breathing system. That isn't at least manslaughter? And let's not forget the "gift" angl, the 'deflowering' thingy.

I wish it was murder, but my wish means nothing. Facts are a funny thing ya know.

Quote:

As far as I am concerned, Tammy died as a direct result of Karla poisoning her.

She did die as a direct result of the two of them, but no one could see how. The police were satisfied after interviewing them.
Quote:


It was kind of a "3 murders for the price of two" deal, wasn't it?

Why would any legal official treat this as of no consequence? Wouldn't the more expected reaction be to -- perhaps -- give her the 12 years for what she and Paul did, as per the deal. And then charge her for the murder/manslaughter of her sister. Why would that be wrong?

Not at all.
They had her beat with two (2) manslaughter charges and her ready to testify against Paul on two (2) Murder charges plus kidnapping, forcible confinement and aggravated sexual assault, and one count of committing an indignity to a human body.

Looked like win win. I understand how this went down and how it looks. They had a woman who had been beaten to within an inch of her life, she was singing like a canary about the abusive man she married and would give them everything ...... IF...she could have immunity.

The Crown said no to immunity but did agree to two (2) twelve (12) year sentences, run concurrently.
No tapes were known to exist prior to her deal. The lawyer had yet to discover them and the Police had come and gone through the house.
Quote:

The same people, with the same biased judgements, are making the same kind of decisions as always.
Conjecture without merit.

Quote:

You make a point of missing the point. If you don't get it, there really is no point.


I see. What a pompous ass you are.

You Come on here and post the most inane and stupid information that is unilaterally wrong , come to conclusions that no smart minded person would ascribe to , keep up with the error prone ways.......and I miss the point?

LOL !

Dude, you havent gotten a single thing right about this yet you keep coming back for more pantsing.

Give it up, you embarass yourself each and every time.

I feel bad but when the facts are within your grasp, in fact at your fingertips, you still keep on f*^*ing it up.

And they call the newspapers false news. Sorry, your have been crowned.
Bugs





Joined: 16 Dec 2009
Posts: 4373
Reputation: 245.2
votes: 8

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, sweet Jesus ... the poor dears in the lab were backlogged. The serial rape suspects had to wait in line like everyone else? Is that the scenario TC wants to play out for us? A backlog of 50,000? One scientist? That's the forensic science available for DNA analysis, destined to become a major item in police work?

One technician that could do the test in the whole on Ontario?

Amazing what unfootnoted nuggets TC produces.

There is always an excuse with bureaucracy. I wonder how many Scarboro Rapist suspect's DNA were in the lab? Maybe they wanted to wait to get a dozen samples so they could do the batch together. Cheaper. That can't even be it. Isn't biological material hard to store in a secure setting, as evidence? It must cost something.

Write the cheque and it can be done. The police have a budget. That's the reality. Management ought to have enough judgement, over time, to recognize a ritual expense, and to stop spending money collecting the stuff if they aren't going to use it in ongoing investigations.

And I wonder how many other men they were questioning in their homes? As I saw published, they had his DNA on file, and they had samples from the Scarboro Rapist. All this nonsense about DNA being in its infancy, it was 1988, and they were telling people to get tests, that everybody and anybody could get AIDS, and it had nothing whatsoever to do with anal sex, my goodness no ... And it certainly had nothing to do with homosexuality. That's probably what was causing the backlog at the one-scientist lab.

It wasn't so much about the 'infancy' as the expense. The police interviewed him in 1990 for the first time. The rapes had gone on for three years, and there were 15 reported rapes, attempted rapes, or attacks before that interview.

/////////////////////////////////////////////

Yes, yes, yes, you had the story that was contrived to put all the blame on Paul. The assumption, throughout, was that Paul was a svengali who had compelled Karla to betray her sisters.

And then the videos came out. In fact, a fair number of people saw the videos. First, it was Paul's lawyer that retrieved them, so he and his date probably saw them a few time, and they'd show them to a few tight friends ... and somehow, journalists got to see them. So the lawyer panicked, and turned them over in return for a plea deal for himself. They never let the audience at the trial see the videos, one reason being that they show Karla as a main participant, and maybe more.
Toronto Centre





Joined: 12 Feb 2011
Posts: 633
Reputation: 93.6Reputation: 93.6
votes: 3
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good lord you are a glutton for punishment.
I swear you must have had the worst education of anyone I know. To keep coming back and getting embarassed time and time again....well , good for you buttercup.

Bugs wrote:
Oh, sweet Jesus ... the poor dears in the lab were backlogged. The serial rape suspects had to wait in line like everyone else? Is that the scenario TC wants to play out for us? A backlog of 50,000? One scientist? That's the forensic science available for DNA analysis, destined to become a major item in police work? One technician that could do the test in the whole on Ontario?

Not really a scenario. But a fact. LOL.

Here ya go..
Quote:
DNA testing was then new in Canada, and the Centre of Forensic Sciences (CFS) in Toronto had only one qualified scientist and one technician. The samples taken from dozens of men questioned in the Scarborough Rapist case were among 50,000 collected at that time by police investigating numerous cases across Ontario.

http://www.thecanadianencyclop.....olka-case/

Quote:

Amazing what unfootnoted nuggets TC produces.

I know, being pantsed and you know it you make allegations of absurdness.

Warning ! Display of ignorance in 3 2 1..
Quote:

There is always an excuse with bureaucracy. I wonder how many Scarboro Rapist suspect's DNA were in the lab? Maybe they wanted to wait to get a dozen samples so they could do the batch together. Cheaper. That can't even be it. Isn't biological material hard to store in a secure setting, as evidence? It must cost something.

Write the cheque and it can be done. The police have a budget. That's the reality. Management ought to have enough judgement, over time, to recognize a ritual expense, and to stop spending money collecting the stuff if they aren't going to use it in ongoing investigations.

Warning! Bugs goes stupid in 3 2 1..
Quote:

And I wonder how many other men they were questioning in their homes? As I saw published, they had his DNA on file, and they had samples from the Scarboro Rapist. All this nonsense about DNA being in its infancy, it was 1988, and they were telling people to get tests, that everybody and anybody could get AIDS, and it had nothing whatsoever to do with anal sex, my goodness no ... And it certainly had nothing to do with homosexuality. That's probably what was causing the backlog at the one-scientist lab.

It wasn't so much about the 'infancy' as the expense. The police interviewed him in 1990 for the first time. The rapes had gone on for three years, and there were 15 reported rapes, attempted rapes, or attacks before that interview.

<sigh> more made up crap.

/////////////////////////////////////////////


Quote:

And then the videos came out. In fact, a fair number of people saw the videos. First, it was Paul's lawyer that retrieved them, so he and his date probably saw them a few time, and they'd show them to a few tight friends ... and somehow, journalists got to see them. So the lawyer panicked, and turned them over in return for a plea deal for himself. They never let the audience at the trial see the videos, one reason being that they show Karla as a main participant, and maybe more.


Wow..just wow. So full of shit.

Lawyers, Judge, Jury. Thats it. No one else has seen them. The Judge forbade other seeing them as he was not wanting the Parents to suffer anymore. Sadly he had to allow for the audio to be played.

Were your charges so severe that you have gone full on idiot or is it something else.

You sir do not have a truthful bone in your body.
Bugs





Joined: 16 Dec 2009
Posts: 4373
Reputation: 245.2
votes: 8

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is that your source???

It's hard for me to believe that there were 50,000 DNA analyses in the backlog, and they had dedicated so few resources to it. I don't accept these figure -- I think they are a government PR office output. In any case, if you are after someone who has left his DNA on five or six women we know about, and has attempted to rape several others, and they are using the DNA on several victims to confirm that it is one perp ... then why wouldn't they go the final step?

There are more than enough legal blunders in this case to make my point. In fact, Karla's small town lawyer hornswoggled the high-powered government lawyers from Queens Park because they had an agenda, and they tried to make this case further their agenda. The same creeps are senior people in the AG now, and there lots of others like them, political zealots who increasingly use the Courts to enforce a point of view.
Toronto Centre





Joined: 12 Feb 2011
Posts: 633
Reputation: 93.6Reputation: 93.6
votes: 3
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
Is that your source???

Yup. One of many should you wish.

Refute it all you want (you wont nor cant) so put up or shut up.

Considering you have not produced one iota of a link/source, you have attempted the ol' 'I recall...I believe I read' defence.

No one is talking about opinions here. Just facts, and you have none zero nada.
Quote:

It's hard for me to believe that there were 50,000 DNA analyses in the backlog, and they had dedicated so few resources to it. I don't accept these figure

Of course you do not accept this.

You have an embarassingly long history of getting pretty much everything wrong on this and an axe to grind.

So , your fallback position is to refuse to acknowledge waht the truth is. Im good with that.
I know , factually, that you are full of shit.
Quote:

-- I think they are a government PR office output. In any case, if you are after someone who has left his DNA on five or six women we know about, and has attempted to rape several others, and they are using the DNA on several victims to confirm that it is one perp ... then why wouldn't they go the final step?

Oh ok...that was answered in the links and my posts.

The COps didnt think he was the one. So it was a perfunctory step .
Quote:

There are more than enough legal blunders in this case to make my point. In fact, Karla's small town lawyer hornswoggled the high-powered government lawyers from Queens Park because they had an agenda, and they tried to make this case further their agenda. The same creeps are senior people in the AG now, and there lots of others like them, political zealots who increasingly use the Courts to enforce a point of view.

Most legal blunders in this case was done by the POlice themselves.

Another thing, once again....the Crown goes on what is presented. NOw the Crown does own some of this, as they stymied the Lawyers by refusing to give up Homolka for interrogation by the other lawyers. I wish they hadnt. She 'd be rotting nearby Paul right now.

Did they know about the tapes prior to Homlka being interrogated? Nope.

Were they fooled by Homolka? Sort of, but they had nothing else but her at this point, along with the contents of the house that proved he was the scarborough rapist.

Anyhow, go read up before posting your crap will ya, its embarassing you are so content to look stupid.
Bugs





Joined: 16 Dec 2009
Posts: 4373
Reputation: 245.2
votes: 8

PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You raise some interesting point about our lawless police and courts ... how do we make them accountable? They think we are accountable to them, but they themselves can mow down people in the streets and it's something that can be 'fixed' with a phone call. And they are right!

Feminist groups have connections right into the A-G's office. Stephanie Guthrie, who calls herself a Gender Justice Consultant, and who runs a group called Women in Toronto Politics, which specializes in lowering the bar to the point where female quotas expand -- she can call up and have the Attorney General's office turn a twitter-storm into a criminal prosecution. And the way modern law looks at it, the trial is part of the punishment because you are guilty, and everyone knows it.

That's the kind of thing I am talking about. TC is talking shit about the details. He publishes organizational spin to cover for their inadequacies. I simply ask the reader -- do you want legal institutions to work like they did in the Homulka case? Because they do that every day!!! I can quibble. He says the house was in Port Dalhousie, for example. I think it's in St. Catherines, but does that reveal anything? That isn't whats at issue.

What's at issue is we have an administration of justice that is politicized. and they are getting convictions by removing the procedural protections that were once built into the law. They are scrapping the Common Law. leaving us with a tattered list of 'charter rights' that they may or may not enforce, depending. In this cse, it's part of the general persecution of white cis-gendered men, but it is spreading. Do Courts go rogue in criminal trials, like the Duffy Trial, in the pursuit of poltiical enemies, or is it carefully orchestrated by top civil servants for maximum political effect?

The reader should ask him/herself -- is this adequate?

In fact, we pay for a top-line justice system, and we get banana republic results.
Post new topic   Reply to topic Page 2 of 2

Goto page Previous  1, 2  


 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Ottawa puts a 10% tax bite on pot

phpBBCopyright 2001, 2005 phpBB