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Toronto Centre





Joined: 12 Feb 2011
Posts: 602
Reputation: 92.2Reputation: 92.2
votes: 3
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh my.

I have to question intelligence and education but frankly my concern is someone is in perpetual denial of the issues.

Lets recap then shall we?

Khadr was 15 when arrested. Big problem there right off the bat.

He was denied access to a lawyer, he was held for years without charge. That alone is enough for a Charter application for abuse.

He was tortured when held at Guantanamo.

There was no fair trial. IN fact it was only a military commission and the evidence was withheld, some of it never being presented. Khadr was essentially forced into a plea bargain

In fact his trial (plea bargain) was presented ONLY if he pled guilty.

Wow...just lovely.

During sentencing hearing the defence was not allowed to present significant evidence of Khadr's ill-treatment while in custody.
The plea bargain meant no appeal to show the flaws of the commission could be challenged.

The facts are clear the US did not know who threw the grenade killing Speer. The original report which still stands says a middle aged man was the prime suspect (but was killed) Only later (ten years later) did the report get amended. None of the personnel present at the time ever confirmed the addendum.

He was harshly interrogated by the medical team transporting him including that he would be raped later on. (dont foget this is a 15 yr old kid) (a medic testified under oath that this occured)

International law dictates that children are to be handled differently.

Military commissions are so horribly run that since 2001 they have processed only 5 cases. Why? Because they are lax on rules, evidence and procedure.

The regular Federal courts have convicted 400 on terrorism charges yet only 5 for Mil Coms in the same time.

I wonder why ?

Quote:
"Seriously consider this," Selinger wrote. "Do you believe you have, as a Canadian, the inalienable right to everything laid out in the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms?"


He has never been paid for being a terrorist.

The govt's of the day abused his rights, colluded with another country to torture him, denied him his rights and left him languishing.

As a Canadian, I am abhored. We have rights and our govt needs to know they are not to be trampled.
All the CDN govt people needed to do was respect that the person has rights (no matter how shitty one may think he is-terrorist or not) and to put up a fight to protect him.

NOT one person would be upset if we had done so, pushed for his trial to be fair and balanced. His conviction or release would occur based on facts .

He would arguably not have any chance to sue the CDN govt then. Ergo, no payout.

It is so simple for everyone to understand, unless they have some agenda, that it is incomprehensive to me how they could not grasp this simple concept.

Offer up a fair trial , in a fair courtroom (not some shady Mil Com) regardless of innocence/guilt and we come to a close.

The CDN govt paid up because Khadr sued them. No civil suit ...no pay payout.

so....
Quote:
if you don't know where our liability comes from, it's OK to say that you are ignorant on the subject. It isn;t as if that will shock anybody.

Reading issues I see.

This was answered succinctly in the same post you quote. LOL ...geebus.

The Charter is where our liability comes from.
Our govt, yours and mine, abused someones rights who then sued for those violations.
The courts agreed.

When the Cops in a town/city abuse someones rights, that town/city pays up when the suit is won.

This is simple grade 7 knowledge.

The same goes for a country.

Quote:
TC responds in a way that reveals him to be a lawyer. "This payment is for the abuse/mishandling that the Canadian Government is responsible for. "

Yeah, what abuse would that be? Oh well, more Orwellian propaganda, I think to myself -- he doesn't know what he's talking about.

Youve tried this dumb tactic numerous times and utterly failed each time.

I am not a lawyer but understand legal issues just fine.

The abuse is outlined up above. I do not expect you to grasp it nut I certainly would expect that if you admit you do not then ask questions and answers will come forth. Getting mired in your hatred of the courts and legal profession do nothing but show ignorance.

Please educate yourself.

ETA: No matter what he did, no matter where he did it...if our GOVTs had stepped up and done their job none of this , payout , repatriation occurs.

It IS that simple.


https://www.commondreams.org/news/2017/07/12/viral-facebook-post-rips-right-wing-arguments-against-omar-khadr-settlement
https://www.hrw.org/news/2010/11/04/trial-wasnt-sentencing-omar-khadr
Bugs





Joined: 16 Dec 2009
Posts: 4270
Reputation: 242.2
votes: 8

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ths is all lies or irrelevant. If Khadr has a legitimate grievance against his enemies for not treating him with the respect and consideration that a soldier of Allah ought to get, he should take his case to the USA.

How does the Charter, that tattered documents, sometimes endorsed by the Courts, sometimes not, that failed document that gave the Court cause to force Parliament into declaring homoseual marriage, and thus the final death of our common law ... is that the document you are using to justify this unprecedented reimbursement?

It can't even guarantee us a speedy trial.

Legally speaking, it's a joke.

Even so, how much 'reading into the law' has to be done to find a place where it says that Canadians fighting to kill Canadians in foreign wars ought to rewarded with millions? Or that Canada is responsible for the treatment that Canadians receive in foreign jails?

I'd love to see you back up your version of US Military Justice. What's your source for that -- Khadr's lawyer? How much better is Canadian government justice, and the present search for convictions in sexual assault cases ... They're pretty 'mickey' themselves.

What law do we change? How do we fix this?
Toronto Centre





Joined: 12 Feb 2011
Posts: 602
Reputation: 92.2Reputation: 92.2
votes: 3
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
Ths is all lies or irrelevant. If Khadr has a legitimate grievance against his enemies for not treating him with the respect and consideration that a soldier of Allah ought to get, he should take his case to the USA.

Irrelevant.

Even worse...you know it.

It was CDN officials who colluded to deny his rights thus sought action against same.
Quote:

How does the Charter, that tattered documents, sometimes endorsed by the Courts, sometimes not, that failed document that gave the Court cause to force Parliament into declaring homoseual marriage, and thus the final death of our common law ... is that the document you are using to justify this unprecedented reimbursement?

First off no sane person can call the Charter failed. One may have some issues with it per se but any other declaration is generally considered silly.

But...I welcome equality though I see that some don't . Not sure why you go in this manner attacking equality via gay marriage but there ya go !
Quote:

It can't even guarantee us a speedy trial.

It never did in the first place so?
Quote:


Legally speaking, it's a joke.

From someone so lacking in legal knowledge I will take that as nothing.
Quote:

Even so, how much 'reading into the law' has to be done to find a place where it says that Canadians fighting to kill Canadians in foreign wars ought to rewarded with millions? Or that Canada is responsible for the treatment that Canadians receive in foreign jails?

None.

Absolutely none at all. That entire paragraph is nothing more than an attempt to change the issues here.
Quote:

I'd love to see you back up your version of US Military Justice.

There was a source in my post.

You do know there is a good chance his conviction may be overturned?
Quote:

How much better is Canadian government justice, and the present search for convictions in sexual assault cases ... They're pretty 'mickey' themselves.


Irrelevant. Not germane to the discussion.

The entire debacle is about rights being violated and CDN govt officials assisting in those transgressions.

All else....every bit of it, is immaterial. Every article printed that goes against this action (apart from the honest ones who just hate the idea of it) is way off base.
Toronto Centre





Joined: 12 Feb 2011
Posts: 602
Reputation: 92.2Reputation: 92.2
votes: 3
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am somewhat surprised at the lack of agitation at our Govt for this debacle.

It certainly isnt Trudeaus fault.Although for partisan reasons one should expect that. Hypocrites come from all sides.

It is the fault of prior Liberal/Conservative govts. Had they done their job this would not be any issue at all.
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Omar Khadr to get apology and compensation

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