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Bugs





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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cosmostein wrote:
Bugs wrote:
Why would the CPC do that? It isn't as if the law is, or has been, an effective means to stop it.


I would imagine that will have everything to do with who wins the leadership.
Some candidates seem content with looking square.


Which doesn't answer the question, does it? Why would the CPC fight to maintain a failed policy? Are they after the 'stupid vote'?

And I suppose what is derivative of this is that we will continue to pretend that the crystal meth/fentanyl problem doesn't exist?
Bugs





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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, they aren't legalizing it at all. Just licensing its production so the cartels can take over, and kick the government's share back to them.

The best people to cartelize the trade and set up monopolies would be the mob, no? Of course, there'll have to be a little bare knuckles work involved.
Quote:

Ottawa to speed up approval process for pot producers
DANIEL LEBLANC
Ottawa — The Globe and Mail
Published Tuesday, Apr. 11, 2017 12:31PM EDT
Last updated Tuesday, Apr. 11, 2017 5:22PM EDT

The federal government is getting ready to drastically speed up its licensing process to increase the numbers of companies that are authorized to produce marijuana for the recreational market that will open up in the first half of 2018, sources said.

A senior federal official said that in addition to tabling legislation to legalize marijuana on Thursday, the federal government will announce a push to authorize new producers of marijuana. At this point, there are 42 companies that have the necessary authorizations from Health Canada to produce marijuana for medical purposes across the country.

The official said the current holders of licences will have a head start once the market is opened up to recreational users, but added that the federal government will add staff and resources at Health Canada to speed up the approval process for new producers.

A key concern is ensuring that the supply of marijuana will meet the demand for the drug once it is legalized by the unofficial deadline of July 1, 2018. As Ottawa works toward squeezing out illegal producers of marijuana, federal officials are worried that a shortage of cannabis would hurt their plans in the initial stages of legalization.

Another priority for the government will be to ensure that there is a broad variety of producers of marijuana serving the recreational market, and not just the existing network that includes many large-scale facilities.

“It’s obvious that the producers who are already licensed have an advantage going in. But there is also a clear desire on the government’s part to have a mix of big and small producers,” said the federal official who spoke on the condition of anonymity ahead of the tabling of the legislation.

“There is a great deal of awareness to the needs of smaller producers in the government,” the official added.

Federal officials said the government will table its legislation on Thursday, but that a number of key issues will only be addressed in the rules and regulations that will be unveiled at a later date.

Ottawa will give itself broad powers to oversee the production of marijuana and to design rules on the marketing of the product, which are expected to be similar to the ones that govern Canada’s tobacco industry.

The federal government will leave the provinces and territories entirely in charge of overseeing the distribution and sale of marijuana, in line with Canada’s alcohol regime.

“We are going to let them make their own choices on the sales side,” the federal official said. “It’s going to be similar to the situation with alcohol. In Alberta, it’s in the hands of the private sector, whereas in Quebec and Ontario, it’s run by the state.”

After it is tabled in the House, the legislation to legalize marijuana will be studied in committee. At the same time, the provinces will be expected to develop their own plans to distribute and sell the product.

The federal government will also be working to develop an “interim system” by which marijuana would be available across Canada even if some provinces do not develop their own distribution mechanisms quickly enough. Sources said the project remains in development, although Canada Post could deliver recreational marijuana by mail, as it currently does with medical marijuana.

The federal legislation will be inspired in large part by a task force led by former Liberal cabinet minister Anne McLellan, which proposed a complete legalization model in a well-received report last year.

The task force urged the government to allow Canadians to buy or carry 30 grams of marijuana for personal use, and to grow up to four plants at home. The task force also recommended a system that would feature storefront sales and mail-order distribution, and allow a wide range of producers to operate legally, including “craft” growers and the current producers of medical marijuana.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has already endorsed one of its key recommendations: that marijuana should be legal for people who are of legal drinking age – 18 or 19 years old, depending on the province they live in.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com.....e34665698/


This is turning into a mess.
Progressive Tory





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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd like to see a debate around decriminalizing all drug use and shifting the focus to not only helping those with addiction issues but freeing up resources to get tougher on those selling drugs.

I haven't done a whole lot of research on the topic but I think it could be a worthwhile debate to have.
Bugs





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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Trudeau’s pot promise is about to be put to the test: Hébert
Support for the plan is falling but with the Liberal’s coming up short on some of their other signature pledges the prime minister has no choice but to press on.

By CHANTAL HÉBERTNational Affairs Columnist
Mon., April 10, 2017

MONTREAL—If he wants to avoid spending the 2019 campaign walking on the shards of yet another broken signature promise, Justin Trudeau has little choice but to make good on his promise to legalize marijuana in time for the next election.

Of the many commitments the prime minister made on the way to his majority victory some were more emblematic than others. The Liberal embrace of deficit spending, the vow to change the voting system in time for 2019 and the legalization of marijuana fall into that category.

On the issue of not letting a deficit stand in his way of his policy ambitions one could argue that Trudeau has delivered in spades. Or alternatively that he broke his word the moment he presented the country with a deficit three times larger than previously advertised, with no solid timeline to return to budget balance.

Trudeau has turned his back on the search for an alternative to the first-past-the-post voting system. With electronic and compulsory voting also off the table, there is little left of the Liberal promise to make sweeping changes to the way Canadians elect their government.

That leaves the legalization of marijuana — a commitment that strategists believe went a long way to attract a cohort of first-time voters to a) cast a ballot and b) to support the Liberals in 2015.

If only to counter the perception that Trudeau can’t be counted on to keep his word, delivering on the marijuana promise before Canada next goes to the polls has become non-negotiable.

But it will not be a cakewalk.

The prime minister’s promise has always been more popular than his own party. That is still the case as the government readies to introduce its marijuana bill later this week. But polls suggest that as Canadians hear more details about the plan more of them may be having second thoughts. Support for the measure was always high, but it may also always have been soft.

A Nanos poll published last August pegged support for the policy at an overwhelming 70 per cent. That score was in line with election polls on the same issue. But a RPG Research Group survey done just as the government was signalling the imminent introduction of its marijuana bill last month found that the pro-legalization cohort had shrunk to 51 per cent. [....]
https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2017/04/10/trudeaus-pot-promise-is-about-to-be-put-to-the-test.html


Surely this is the very worst reason to pass legislation -- to appear credible when every other 'signature promise' he made in the campaign has been ignored. Does the narcissism never end?

My bet is that this is a low priority for the general public, and for users, the thought of a Marijuana Control Board focussed primarily on keeping prices high and taxing users is not that appealing. As I have said, legaiization is not the problem -- it's the monopolization and licensing that is the problem. And why is that an attractive improvement?

The War on Drugs has been a colossal failure. The real drugs that are so destructive are already available only by prescription, and the coppers can't seem to control the black market. I refer to things like oxycontin and fentanyl. But even gravol is being abused.

We should face up to that. There is really no reason to throw people in jail for marijuana, and no need to 'çontrol' it either. It is not a 'gateway' drug any more than tobacco is. Just let it be. A small proportion of people will abuse it, but the society will develop attitudes that control it adequately, and do a better job of enforcement. The focus should be on the drugs that are the real problem, and should recognize that the police and ineffective.

Note to PT: Marijana is not very addictive, certainly not as addictive as tobacco or sugar. It's "psychologically addictive", which means people like the pleasant feelings it brings. But the more one smokes the less of those pleasant feelings one gets. For the real abuser, who gets up in the morning and rolls a joint, there is almost no effect beyond feeling dumb. For most people, it's something that relaxes one and works best to the degree that it is little used.
Progressive Tory





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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the only reason marijuana could possibly be a gateway drug for someone is if it gets laced with something - and I don't know what impact that would have because I'm not familiar with drugs - or if someone cannot get access to marijuana and ends of trying another drug. I remember several years ago hearing someone say they were having trouble getting weed in St. John's because there was a shortage. It's possible in that situation that someone may try another drug.

Both of those issues would be solved by legalizing it.
Bugs





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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FYI, there is a big divide in 'drugs' -- marijuana, hashish, kief are all similar to tobacco in that they are natural or close to natural products. Marijuana would be comparable to rolling tobacco, hashish might be comparable to chewing tobacco, and kief is, in fact, a combination of hashish and tobacco.

The other drugs are chemical drugs. They come as pills or in injectable form, usually. And they are much more powerful. Cocaine was once marketed as non-habit forming, but its derivative, crack, is like other chemical drugs.

In order for tobacco to do most people harm to the user's health, it is usually necessary to smoke 20 a day for 15+ years. It is a bit like birth control pills in that way. One cigarette is not quite benign. It's long time use at a relatively high rate that causes health problems for most people. Imagine if you ate 20 chocolate chip cookies a day -- you'd have health problems, maybe as bad a tobacco would bring down on you, so it's something the same.

The whole ideas that 'second-hand smoke' can damage people is science fiction. In the first place, tobacco smoke is a tar, which comes off the cinder at a few hundred degrees. It goes through a filter, where some of it is caught. Then it goes into the smokers lungs, where most of the tar stays. So, what is exhaled is already cooled, and it forms a residue on whatever cool surface is nearby. It does not go up the stairs, and through the keyhole, into baby's room. That's your government lying to you.

It's like someone giving you a bite out of one of those chocolate chip cookies.

Chemical drugs aren't like that. They can kill, and have a powerful effect on the body. Tobacco is addicting, but the addict only gets edgy, irritable, when in withdrawal. People who are addicted to chemical drugs often have violent mood swings even when on the drug, and can have violent convulsions when in withdrawal.

The two families of drugs are very different in the effects. In my case, I have used marijuana, on and off, for years. When it's gone, I don't panic. (In my mature years, I welcome a respite because when I go back to it, perhaps a few weeks later, I have a far better experience.) I might get a little restless, but that's all. I have never been tempted to be a regular user of chemical drugs simply because it's a different kind of experience, and it takes too much out of you. It's hard to use that stuff and keep a job, for example.

By the way, I am a very moderate drinker, and quit bingeing when I started smoking pot. Most of my friends -- all older folks, over 50 -- are the same. Those in my circle who don't smoke tend to be heavier drinkers. I don't say that's true of everybody, but it is certainly part of the usage pattern.

I am told that lots of street drugs are laced with crystal meth. I don't have any experience with this, but street drugs, particularly chemical drugs, are always risky.
RCO





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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Liberals table legislation to legalize pot by July 2018

Regulations aim to restrict access to minors, remove profits to organized crime

By Kathleen Harris, CBC News Posted: Apr 13, 2017 12:09 PM ET| Last Updated: Apr 13, 2017 1:04 PM ET



The Liberal government has tabled legislation to end the prohibition on pot and regulate it for recreational use, checking off a major campaign promise from the 2015 campaign.

Four cabinet ministers will hold a news conference to discuss the legislation at 1:05 p.m. ET and CBC.ca will carry it live.

The legislation allows people to possess up to 30 grams of dried or fresh cannabis and sets the minimum at 18 years of age, though provinces can set a higher legal age.

Consumers can grow up to four plants at home or buy from a licensed retailer. Dried and fresh cannabis and cannabis oil will be available first, with edible products to become available later, according to information provided to reporters by Health Canada.

The new legislation provides for ticketing for possession that exceeds the personal limit by small amounts, or up to 14 years in jail for an illegal distribution or sale, and imposes tough new penalties of up to 14 years in jail for giving or selling marijuana to minors.

A new offence with a penalty of up to 14 years in jail will also be created for using a youth to commit a cannabis-related offence.

However, youth who are found in possession of up to five grams of marijuana would not be criminally prosecuted, in order to avoid consequences of criminal prosecution.

The new bill also:

■Prohibits marketing to appeal to youth.
■Prohibits sales through self-service display or vending machines.
■Makes it illegal to drive within two hours of having an illegal level of drugs in the blood, with penalties ranging from a $1,000 fine to life imprisonment, depending on the level of drugs in the blood and whether someone was injured or killed as a result of the impairment.
■Does not prevent provinces from allowing sales at the same place as alcohol.
■Prohibits tourists from bringing pot past the border, but allows them to use pot while in Canada.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has repeatedly said the goal is to restrict access of marijuana to minors and choke off profits from sales to organized crime.

Liberals Pot 20170327
The Liberal government has tabled legislation to end the prohibition on pot for recreational use. (Adrian Wyld/The Canadian Press)

The plan has been applauded by marijuana advocates, but has raised concerns from and others about a potential rise in impaired driving and the impact on the mental health of young Canadians.

The bills will face tough scrutiny by MPs in the House and at committee before moving on to the Senate for further study.

The government hopes to clear the parliamentary and procedural hurdles to make pot legal by July 1, 2018.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politic.....78?cmp=rss
RCO





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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Liberals unveil pot legislation


Kristy Kirkup, The Canadian Press
Published Thursday, April 13, 2017 4:48AM EDT
Last Updated Thursday, April 13, 2017 2:31PM EDT


OTTAWA -- Adults 18 and older will be able to legally buy and cultivate small amounts of marijuana for personal use, while selling the drug to a minor will become a serious new criminal offence under the federal Liberal government's proposed new legal-pot regime.
• Scroll down or click here to replay our live blog

A suite of legislation introduced Thursday would, once passed, establish a "strict legal framework" for the production, sale, distribution and possession of pot, and make it against the law to sell cannabis to youth or use a young person to commit a cannabis-related crime.
)


New penalties would range from a simple police citation to 14 years behind bars.

"If your objective is to protect public health and safety and keep cannabis out of the hands of minors, and stop the flow of profits to organized crime, then the law as it stands today has been an abject failure," Public Safety Minister Ralph Goodale told a news conference.

"Police forces spend between $2 billion and $3 billion every year trying to deal with cannabis, and yet Canadian teenagers are among the heaviest users in the western world ... we simply have to do better."

The new law would allow adults 18 and over to possess up to 30 grams of dried cannabis or its equivalent in public, share up to 30 grams of dried marijuana with other adults and buy cannabis or cannabis oil from a provincially regulated retailer.

They would also be permitted to grow up to four plants per residence for personal use, as well as make legal cannabis-containing products at home.

The government says it intends to bring other products, including pot-infused edibles, into the legalized sphere once federal regulations for production and sale are developed and brought into force.

"The current system of prohibition is failing our kids," said Liberal MP Bill Blair, a former Toronto police chief and the government's point man on the legalized-marijuana file.

The plan is to have a legalized-pot system in place by the end of June 2018, he added.

"We have a responsibility to act as expeditiously as we can ... we can't drag our feet; we aspire to get this done as quickly as possible."

Under the proposed Cannabis Act, it would remain illegal to import cannabis and cannabis products, and to export them without a valid permit. Permits may be issued for certain purposes, such as medical cannabis and industrial hemp.

It would also be against the law to sell cannabis in a package or with a label that could be construed as appealing to young people, to include testimonials or endorsements, or to depict a person, character or animal.

The government also aims to establish "significant penalties" for those who engage young Canadians in "cannabis-related offences" and a "zero-tolerance approach" to drug-impaired driving, along with a "robust" public awareness campaign.

The RCMP and the Canadian Border Services Agency plan to work together, along with local police, to uphold laws governing illegal cross-border movement of cannabis.

Goodale made a point of noting the existing laws remain in effect until the new legislation is formally proclaimed the law of the land.

"As the bill moves through the legislative process, existing laws prohibiting possession and use of cannabis remain in place, and they need to be respected," he said.

"This must be an orderly transition; it is not a free for all."

Provinces, territories and municipalities would be able to tailor rules for their own jurisdictions, enforcing them through mechanisms such as ticketing.

They will also be permitted to set their own licensing, distribution and retail sales rules, establish provincial zoning rules for cannabis businesses and change provincial traffic safety laws as they deem necessary.

Philpott says criminalizing cannabis has not deterred use among young people, noting products like alcohol and tobacco are legally available with restrictions.

Once passed, the Liberal bills introduced today would make Canada the first member of the G7 to legalize marijuana for recreational use across the country.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics.....-1.3366954
Toronto Centre





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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Point of order please?
Quote:
...and kief is, in fact, a combination of hashish and tobacco.

Uh...no , it is not.

Kief is the tiny sticky crystals that covers the cannabus flower. Kief (also known as dry sift or pollen) refers to the resin glands which contain the terpenes and cannabinoids that make cannabis so unique.

If you know someone who uses and or has a grinder, there are two sections below the top. The first ones is where the bud is ground up and contained. The bottom section is screened and allows for the crystal to settle sans any leaf parts.

Very potent !

Think of 180 proof rum straight up vs the same mixed w say Coke. Either way can get you there....
Toronto Centre





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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well thank god Kellie Leitch is nt anywhere from being PM.

That hogwash she tried to peddle yesterday should seal her fate. I note she is upstanding pediatric surgeon but who does she think she is kidding when she says "kids are coming to me and saying drugs are bad but this drug is good?"
Knowing many Ped surgeons in my life, they rarely talk to a client, and when they do it will not be about smoking pot. They dont have the time for chit chat.

Look, I get politicians BS us. Some of it is hard to swallow and some of it is meh....shake it off.

But when something is blatantly bogus it is particularly galling.

She really needs to remove herself from the game.
RCO





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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trudeau leaves grim-faced ministers to expand on pot laws — right before long weekend: Hébert


With the stage set for a less-than-festive announcement, sunny ways were definitively not in the government’s script for Thursday’s opening act in the legislative debate on the legalization of marijuana.


“We want to make it more difficult for kids to access marijuana. That is why we are going to legalize and control marijuana,” the Prime Minister proclaimed in the Commons on the day before his government tabled two bills to implement his election promise.


By Chantal HébertNational Affairs Columnist

Thu., April 13, 2017


Justin Trudeau wants Canadians to see his plan to legalize marijuana as a massive government intervention to save the country’s youth from the perils of cannabis.

“We want to make it more difficult for kids to access marijuana. That is why we are going to legalize and control marijuana,” the Prime Minister proclaimed in the Commons on the day before his government tabled two bills to implement his election promise.

With the stage set for a less-than-festive announcement, sunny ways were definitively not in the government’s script for Thursday’s opening act in the legislative debate on the legalization of marijuana.

Absent the prime minister — otherwise occupied somewhere else in the parliamentary precinct — it was left to a quartet of grim-faced ministers to expand on the legislation.

This they did by showcasing a litany of planned prohibitions and restrictions, and saying as little as possible as to the actual intent of the policy, which remains to make it possible for adults to procure cannabis legally.

If the argument that the way to keep more teenagers away from marijuana is to sell it legally sounds counterintuitive, it may be because most of us do not remember having a harder time — as adolescents — getting our underage hands on alcohol and tobacco products than on cannabis.

There is for now scant evidence that Canada, by going through the many hoops involved in legalizing marijuana, will achieve Trudeau’s purported societal goal.

When it comes to selling cannabis legally, the state of Colorado has a head start on comparable jurisdictions. It is not clear that the policy has had the kind of impact on underage consumption that the federal government says it is looking for. Or for that matter the negative consequences critics of legalization warn about.

But then the first risk the government is attempting to counter with the repressive subtext of its dual bills is political. There is widespread public ambivalence about the Liberal plan. It might not take much to turn that ambivalence into a backlash.

Hence the heavy emphasis on the introduction of maximum sentences for selling or giving marijuana to a minor on par with those on the books for raping a child, and a plan to give the police the right to demand saliva tests from drivers on a basis as slim as red eyes.

The provinces would also be free to raise the legal age to buy cannabis up from 18 and to lower the maximum amount of cannabis allowable down from 30 grams.

The New Democrats have long supported the decriminalization of marijuana and have no ideological objections to going the extra step to legalization. They are happy, for now, to watch the government sink or swim with its bid.

The Conservatives did campaign against Trudeau’s promise in the last election. But there is no consensus on the way forward among their leadership candidates. Some — like Kellie Leitch — are promising to repeal the legislation. Others — like Kevin O’Leary and Maxime Bernier — have expressed qualified support for the move in the past.

There is no need for the opposition to rush to judgment. This debate will play out for much of the remainder of the Liberal mandate. The government would like to have the law in place by July of next year but with the pricing issues among many others still up in the air it would probably be wise to not hold one’s breath for the rollout to be on schedule.

On Parliament Hill, the last few hours before a long weekend and a two-week parliamentary break are the equivalent of a graveyard shift. On afternoons when Ottawa’s airport lounge is busier than the Commons lobby, governments have tended to dump potentially embarrassing news, in the hope that they will get a swift burial.

It is in this parliamentary cemetery that Trudeau’s government chose to plant the legislative seeds of its marijuana policy on Thursday. The choice of timing is not a conventional one for what used to be a signature platform plank.

But then, like the defunct Liberal commitment to a new voting system, the marijuana promise was one that no leader before Trudeau had ever made, and he made it at a time when the party was further removed from power than at any other point in its modern history.

Based on the collective body language on exhibit on the government side on Thursday, the two promises have in common that the Liberals have come to rue the day Trudeau made them.



Chantal Hébert is a national affairs writer. Her column appears Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday.

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2017/04/13/trudeau-leaves-grim-faced-ministers-to-expand-on-pot-laws-right-before-long-weekend-hbert.html
Bugs





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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toronto Centre wrote:
Point of order please?
Quote:
...and kief is, in fact, a combination of hashish and tobacco.

Uh...no , it is not.

Kief is the tiny sticky crystals that covers the cannabus flower. Kief (also known as dry sift or pollen) refers to the resin glands which contain the terpenes and cannabinoids that make cannabis so unique.
.


Oh, sweet Jesus ...

What does TC think hash is?

Quote:
Hashish is made from cannabinoid-rich glandular hairs known as trichomes, as well as varying amounts of cannabis flower and leaf fragments. The flowers of a mature female plant contain the most trichomes, though trichomes are also found on other parts of the plant. Certain strains of cannabis are cultivated specifically for their ability to produce large amounts of trichomes. The resin reservoirs of the trichomes, sometimes erroneously called pollen (vendors often use the euphemism "pollen catchers" to describe screened kief-grinders in order to skirt paraphernalia-selling laws), are separated from the plant through various methods.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hashish
RCO





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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't count on a ganja tax bonanza, feds

iPolitics Insights

You can levy high taxes or you can shrink the black market. You can’t do both.


Alan Freeman



Thursday, April 13th, 2017



The talk-show format of Thursday’s cannabis legalization news conference included no fewer than four ministers and a parliamentary-secretary/ex-police chief. But there was one notable absentee — Finance Minister Bill Morneau.

Probably just as well. The legalization of recreational cannabis may be a great idea for ending needless prosecution of pot smokers and bringing order to a market now dominated by illicit operators and organized crime. But it’s an illusion to think legalization of marijuana will be a bonanza for government revenues.

That’s not to say there won’t be money to be made from the emergence of the new industry — by Ottawa and the provinces, among others. Already, the early entrants in the licensed growing business have made tidy profits, especially those who have listed on the stock market. The shares of some of the bigger players are up 300 and 400 per cent in the past year.

And there’s a new industry of legal and advisory services for the cannabis trade emerging as well. One prominent member is none other than Anne McLellan, the former Liberal cabinet minister who headed the federal task force that designed the framework for the legislation.

The Globe and Mail reports that McLellan is a senior adviser at Bennett Jones LLP, which has carved out a niche in advising cannabis firms; Bennett Jones and a dozen of its lawyers are listed on securities documents as having stakes in one of the companies positioned to profit from legalization. In recent weeks, McLellan has been speaking at industry-sponsored events across Canada, where she is typically billed as an ‘insider’ for her task force work. She can’t understand how anybody could see this as a conflict of interest.

As for the federal government itself, it has every reason to be cautious about how much money it can make from the cannabis trade. It’s true that, being illegal, none of this business is currently taxed, so legalization should bring in new revenue.

First of all, nobody really has a clear idea of how large this new industry will be. The CIBC appeared to rely guesswork when it estimated that the industry could be worth $10 billion a year. Then it assumed that governments would somehow absorb half of the take — including taxes and the giant markups that provincial alcohol monopolies currently take on alcohol. (More on that later.)

open quote 761b1bTrudeau’s ministers insist that they want to discourage consumption, especially among young people — which would argue for higher prices, higher taxes. But if you push prices too high, then users will keep away from the legal stuff and get their weed from illicit sources.

Not to be outdone, accounting firm Deloitte said the market could be worth $4.9 billion to $8.7 billion a year. Then it added in factors like the value of security, transportation, tourism, taxes and paraphernalia and said that the total could come to $23 billion. Clearly, someone was smoking something.

A more realistic assessment comes from the Parliamentary Budget Office, which did a detailed study on the size of the market, pricing, consumer behavior, etc. It concluded that there could be 4.6 million cannabis users in 2018, rising to 5.2 million by 2021. The PBO estimated they could spend between $4.2 billion and $6.2 billion a year on the stuff.

Yet when it comes to government revenues, the PBO notes that Ottawa and the provinces will have to be very careful about how they tax legal cannabis. The Trudeau government has conflicting goals — it has to be careful not to be too greedy if it wants the new regime to work.

While it wants to allow adults to smoke a joint in peace, Trudeau’s ministers insist that they want to discourage consumption, especially among young people — which would argue for higher prices, higher taxes. But if you push prices too high, then users will keep away from the legal stuff and get their weed from illicit sources.

That’s particularly the case for regular users, who smoke most of the cannabis consumed in this country and probably already have dependable illegal sources. The law-abiding citizen who’s curious won’t mind spending a bit more for the legal product — but the regular user will happily stick to his old supplier if it’s much cheaper.

In Colorado, where there was an initial tax of almost 30 per cent on recreational weed, almost half of the early cannabis sales stayed in the illicit market.

And we should be especially cautious in estimating what sort of a boon this will be for Canada’s tourism trade. Colorado got a big boost when it was the first U.S. state to legalize recreational weed in 2014 — but now there are seven states where it’s legal and more than half of all the states permit medical use. The movement is clearly spreading.

If there’s a Canada advantage, it’s likely to be temporary. Remember casinos. Windsor, Ontario built a huge one, figuring that it would see a major influx of Americans from nearby Detroit. Then Michigan legalized casinos and its market advantage disappeared.

In the final analysis, the PBO estimates that marijuana tax revenues, primarily from GST and provincial sales taxes, will be an estimated $618 million in the first full year of legal cannabis, with the provinces getting 60 per cent and Ottawa the remaining 40 per cent. According to the PBO, these initial revenues “are expected to be modest, in the hundreds of millions of dollars, rather than billions of dollars.”

Only once the legal market is firmly established can government expect to capture more revenues, perhaps in the form of an excise tax like the ones imposed on alcohol and tobacco. But it’s not going to do much to reduce the deficit. Maybe that’s why Morneau stayed away from this week’s news conference.

http://ipolitics.ca/2017/04/13.....anza-feds/
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Senate could 'wreak havoc' on pot bill: strategist



Beatrice Britneff

Thursday, April 13th, 2017



Sen. Claude Carignan. THE CANADIAN PRESS/Sean Kilpatrick



Even though the federal government took its first legislative step today to legalize the recreational use of marijuana for adults, the cannabis industry shouldn’t be celebrating yet, said one political strategist and industry insider.

Will Stewart, a managing principal at the public strategy and communications firm Navigator who lobbies for clients in the cannabis industry, said the proposed legislation still faces a long path forward in the House of Commons — and an even more uncertain fate in the Upper Chamber, where the unaligned and ex-Liberal senators increasingly appear to be flexing their independent muscles.

Stewart is registered to lobby federally...

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Canada’s marijuana legalization plan designed to reduce criminal role in market


Daniel Leblanc and Mike Hager


OTTAWA and and VANCOUVER — The Globe and Mail


Published Thursday, Apr. 13, 2017 12:12PM EDT



Stating that 94 years of prohibition were an “abject failure,” the federal government has tabled long-awaited legislation to legalize marijuana for adult Canadians at the same time as toughening up the Criminal Code to crack down on dealers targeting minors and those getting behind the wheel while high.


The historic legislation would lift the prohibition on the recreational use of cannabis that goes back to 1923, positioning Canada as a leading country on the relaxation of illicit-drug laws. If adopted as planned by the summer of 2018, Canada will become the first G7 country – and the second in the world after Uruguay – in which cannabis use is legal across the land.

Still, the Trudeau government is pitching its plan as highly restrictive, designed for the sole purpose of reducing the role of criminal organizations in the marijuana market and limiting the availability of the drug to youth.

Related: What Canada’s doctors are concerned about with marijuana legalization

The legislative package includes one bill that would create a new federal-provincial regime to produce and sell cannabis, and another one to overhaul and strengthen the laws related to impaired driving by users of both marijuana and alcohol.

Bill C-45 and Bill C-46 would also create a series of new criminal offences, punishing those who provide cannabis to youth with up to 14 years in jail and allowing for roadside saliva testing to detect drug-impaired drivers. Drivers with a small amount of THC in their blood would face a fine of up to $1,000, while those with high levels (or those who also have alcohol in their blood) would face up to 10 years in jail.

Liberal MP Bill Blair, the former police chief who has been the government’s point man on the file, acknowledged there is “not an absolute guarantee” that marijuana would disappear from the hands of young Canadians.


Still, he said the government was creating a system in which all legal producers would be licensed by Health Canada, and all legal cannabis would be distributed through provincially regulated outlets.

“Today, the decision to sell or not to sell to that child is often being made by a gangster in a stairwell,” he said at a news conference. “That is completely unacceptable to us and that will be subject to serious criminal sanction.”

As was expected, the legislation would allow all Canadians over the age of 18 (or older depending on the provinces) to buy marijuana by mail and in provincially regulated retail spaces, or to grow up to four plants at home. The possession limit of dried cannabis would be set at 30 grams, while edible cannabis products would be legalized at a later date.

The legislation will eventually be completed by a series of rules and regulations, which means there are still unanswered questions on issues such as the future price of marijuana, packaging and marketing rules, and taxation levels.

Across the country, provincial politicians said many details surrounding the distribution and sale of cannabis will have to be worked out with municipalities, with most saying any tax revenue generated from the new industry should go toward mitigating the negative public health and safety effects brought on by the new laws.

Ontario Finance Minister Charles Sousa, whose province houses the majority of Canada’s licensed medical-cannabis producers, said it remains unclear as to whether provincial-government coffers will receive any additional funds after legalization. As he prepares to table a balanced budget on April 27, Mr. Sousa said he has not budgeted for any extra money from marijuana sales and any proceeds would be earmarked for spending on health and addiction services.

In B.C., home to Canada’s largest black market for the production and sale of cannabis, Premier Christy Clark echoed this statement, noting the extra money should also go toward law enforcement. She added that a panel of B.C. experts will help determine where best to sell the drug. Several B.C. communities have followed in Vancouver’s footsteps to begin crafting bylaws licensing storefront dispensaries, which are illegal under current laws but have exploded to more than a hundred locations across the province.

Alberta’s Minister of Justice and Solicitor-General Kathleen Ganley told reporters Thursday that her government hopes to start provincewide public consultations this summer to gauge which minimum age is acceptable and where people prefer the drug be sold. Ms. Ganley said her province likely won’t support the sale of cannabis next to alcohol, which was a key public-health recommendation made by the federal task force that guided the new law.

A spokesperson for the Government of Saskatchewan praised the bill’s zero-tolerance approach to cannabis-impaired driving, but stated the province wants to see federal funding to train more police officers on how to recognize when someone is under the influence of the drug.

Quebec Public Health Minister Lucie Charlebois said her province has no choice but to implement the changes and hopes ending prohibition of the drug will help better prevent its associated harms.

Mr. Blair, the former police chief of Toronto, said Canada is not moving in the same direction as the handful of U.S. states that legalized marijuana in an attempt to “maximize revenue.”

“It is not our intent to promote the use of this drug,” he said. “In every other jurisdiction that has gone down the road of legalization, they focused primarily on a commercial regulatory framework. In Canada … it’s a public-health framework.”

At this point, there are 42 companies that have the necessary authorizations from Health Canada to produce marijuana for medical purposes across the country.

A federal official said the current holders of licences will have a head start once the market is opened up to recreational users, while saying staff and resources will be added at Health Canada to speed up the approval process for new producers.

Federal Conservative finance critic Gérard Deltell said the announcement was a “sad day for Canada” because the changes will eventually expose more youth to the risks of marijuana. The NDP said the proposal was a “step in the right direction,” while complaining the government was moving too slowly to put an end to a system in which ordinary Canadians are still being charged with pot possession.

Still, the Liberals insist they have found the right balance between a “free-for-all” regime and the existing system, under which Canadian teenagers rank among the heaviest users of cannabis in the world.

“If your objective is to protect public health and safety, and keep cannabis out of the hands of minors, and stop the flow of illegal profits to organized crime, then the law as it stands today has been an abject failure,” Public Safety Minister Ralph Goodale said.

Mr. Goodale was unable to provide assurances that Canadians will not encounter problems at the U.S. border if they acknowledge legally smoking marijuana. Still, he said Canada will raise the issue with the United States if a pattern of denied entries arises after legalization.

Federal ministers reiterated on Thursday that marijuana remains illegal across Canada, except for medical purposes, until the legislation comes into force.

Key details in the legislation
•Sales to be restricted to people age 18 and older, but provinces could increase the minimum age.
•New fines or jail time for anyone who sells cannabis to youth or creates products appealing to youth.
•Adults could publicly possess up to 30 grams of dried cannabis.
•Sales by mail would be allowed in provinces that lack a regulated retail system.
•Adults could grow up to four cannabis plants.
•Adults could produce legal cannabis products, such as food or drinks, for personal use at home.
•At first, sales will entail only fresh and dried cannabis, cannabis oils and seeds and plants for cultivation.
•Possession, production and distribution outside the legal system would remain illegal.
•The existing program for access to medical marijuana would continue as it currently exists.

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they may be legalising it but how should it be restricted ?

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