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Bugs





Joined: 16 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:48 am    Post subject: Legalize recreational marijuana: task force Reply with quote

Quote:
Legalize mail order, storefront pot sales to those 18 and up, says task force
By The Canadian Press — Dec 13 2016

OTTAWA — A federal task force on legalized recreational marijuana is recommending storefront and mail-order sales to Canadians 18 years and older, with personal growing limits of four plants per person.

The framework report, headed by former federal Liberal cabinet minister Anne McLellan, says recreational marijuana should not be sold in the same location as alcohol or tobacco, and that production should be monitored with a "seed-to-sale tracking system" to prevent diversions to the black market.

The study gives shape to a Liberal promise to the legalize recreational pot consumption and sales, with safeguards in place to restrict youth access and choke off the illicit market that fuels criminal enterprises.

"We have discovered that regulation of cannabis will touch every aspect of our society," says the 106-page report. [....]
http://www.nationalnewswatch.c.....FAkJxsrLIV


Clearly, the medical requirement for marijuana smoking has dropped by the wayside. They are talking about 'recreational use', and making it readily available, with all the usual hot air about 'protecting youth' from the dangers, etc. etc. etc.

They are creating a monopoly. The only "controls" being introduced are those that keep the business in a small number of hands. Extra taxes will be part of the picture. It looks like those 'private sessions' with the PM work!
Toronto Centre





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Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I fail to understand why Trudeau doesnt just open the floodgates after crafting a few laws a la alcohol.

There is no need for deep thought on this, there is enough knowledge out there of any known harm/benefits of the herb.

Tax it, regulate the growers (and I think that is the snafu holding things up) let distributors go about their business .

Sure is better than where we get it now . One thing the govt will ensure is the price will remain relatively high.

No one ever died from too much weed. Alcohol.....millions upon millions have.

BTW...Canada is not highest user of weed (from another post yesterday) , maybe top ten (depends on source) but NZ , AUS, Spain and America are higher users.
RCO





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Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Set minimum legal age for marijuana at 18, says task force

Report recommends no maximum limit on THC content


Kyle Duggan

Tuesday, December 13th, 2016

A new report says the government should set the minimum purchasing age for legal marijuana at 18 and hand off retail regulations and distribution to the provinces to deal with.

The Liberal government’s marijuana legalization ‘task force’ released its highly-anticipated report Tuesday on how the feds should go about regulating legalized recreational pot.

The report, based on extensive consultations started late June this year, offers more than 80 recommendations on how the government should go about drafting its new law, which is expected in the spring.

Having Ottawa set the legal age at 18 also would allow provinces and territories to set higher ages if they want, the report says.

The report says that the task force was told that 25, the “age at which brain development has stabilized”, was unrealistic as an age cut-off because it would “leave much of the illicit market intact.”

At a press conference Tuesday, Task Force Chair Anne McLellan told reporters that it should be up to provinces to deal with dispensaries and storefronts because it’s their jurisdiction.

“We are very respectful of the fact that any final decision around that model will be up to the provinces, probably in consultation with municipalities and local communities.”

Large cities have cracked down this year on a proliferation of marijuana dispensaries that have set up in anticipation of recreational marijuana being legalized.

Here’s a quick look at some of the key recommendations:

•Keep the medical marijuana system separate from the recreational system.

•Require plain packaging for products, which should include the company name, strain, price, THC and CBD amounts, and health warnings.

•Set “comprehensive” restrictions on marketing aimed at people aged 18-25.

•Ban items and marketing practices that look like they’re “appealing to children,” including things that look like candy or display cartoon characters.

•Consider allowing edibles — but prohibit mixed products like cannabis-infused alcoholic drinks.

•Limit personal possession to 30 grams (of dried recreational cannabis).

•Regulate production at the federal level, but leave wholesale and retail distribution regulations to the provinces.

•Retail sales should prohibit co-location of alcohol or tobacco with cannabis sales.

•Limit where storefronts can exist and the number that can occupy a single area, and keep them “an appropriate distance” from schools and parks.

The report also said the potency of THC content (the active ingredient that gets a user high) shouldn’t be limited, but encouraged a tax scheme or minimum prices linked to THC levels to discourage consumers from using higher-strength products.

When it comes to taxes, the report was more vague and suggested only that they should be “high enough” to prevent increased consumption but “low enough” to compete with illegal drug sales. Revenue should be used for public awareness campaigns and addictions treatment.

For those who want to grow at home, the task force is suggesting the government allow four plants per residence and a maximum plant height of 100 cm. On drug-impaired driving, it strayed away from significant recommendations because of a lack of scientific evidence and recommended more study. But it did suggest the government should develop an appropriate roadside screening device.

The report also says cabinet should maintain criminal offences for illegal production, trafficking, possession for the purposes of trafficking and export, and trafficking to youth.

McLellan said that the government needs to “understand the value of a diverse market” which includes small producers, and said that the feds could consider market interventions to help them. She added that the vast majority of producers aren’t large — and even welcomed illegal producers into the legal market.

“We know there are lots of growers out there … producing illegally, obviously outside the system. We would hope that some, at least some of those, will wish to come within the new legal regime and will be able to meet the standards to do that.”

She blamed the existing system for allowing the criminal market to “flourish,” and said it’s time to move away from that system which is “not working.”

The consultation team looked at other jurisdictions, like Colorado, Uruguay and Washington State, which have already legalized pot. It got an earful from Canadians as well — “including many young people” — who sent in over 30,000 submissions to the nine-member task force.

One major caveat in all this: The Trudeau cabinet sent the expert team out to consult and draft recommendations, but that doesn’t mean the government actually has to adopt them when it writes the new law. When the Liberals campaigned on legalizing marijuana, setting up the consultation task force was part of the “Real Change” platform plank.

McLellan also added a warning of sorts for the government: The Liberals should “expect surprises” once they start penning the legislation that heads the country into uncharted territory.

“We are the largest developed country to ever move on legalization,” she said. “Uruguay is an important example but a country of some 3.6 million people. Therefore, some of their challenges were different, some of them easier to meet than will be the case here at home in Canada.”

http://ipolitics.ca/2016/12/13.....ask-force/
RCO





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Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Legalize recreational marijuana: task force Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:


Clearly, the medical requirement for marijuana smoking has dropped by the wayside. They are talking about 'recreational use', and making it readily available, with all the usual hot air about 'protecting youth' from the dangers, etc. etc. etc.

They are creating a monopoly. The only "controls" being introduced are those that keep the business in a small number of hands. Extra taxes will be part of the picture. It looks like those 'private sessions' with the PM work!



its clear they are trying to create another Monopoly like the beer store and the LCBO , to raise more tax revenue

the report also recommends they keep in place criminal offences for growing and trafficking marijuana , which seems rather odd considering there legalising it , obviously they don't want other people to sell or produce the stuff if there not paying taxes into the government


the 18 year age limit is also going to be very difficult to enforce , most high schools have " smoking areas " and allow students to smoke tobacco even though there not legally old enough to go to a convenience store and buy a pack of smokes .

why would a high school want to try and enforce this age limit ? considering the amount of teens smoking the stuff it be nearly impossible to enforce and some of the parents don't care cause they smoke it themselves

they also can't enforce the 19 year age limit for alcohol , the teens here can't go to the LCBO and buy it yet every weekend they all have no trouble having parties where alcohol is present and being consumed , teen drinking is very high here and no one seems to even be attempting to enforce the rules , and by teen some of these kids are like 16 or even younger from what I've seen and heard
Bugs





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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem isn't the 'legalization' if you simply want to focus law-enforcement somewhere where it might actually have a benefit. Just take it out of the criminal code. The only reason it is in there, at least for the last 40 years, is as a 'hammer' to squeeze users into turning someone else in.

The justification for the criminalization of marijuana has never really been made. It's an inheritance from Reefer Madness days. Its main effect has been to corrupt law and order. Using a kind of blackmail to extort evidence for use in prosecutions for harmless entrepreneurial activities seems to me to be dubious, but ... given the standards of law enforcement and the courts in our fair land, how can we object? Does it matter that much of the violence in the drug trade goes back to precisely this kind of law enforcement?

Frankly, I don't see why anyone is very excited about this. It isn't as if it isn't freely available right now. As it now stands, they have criminalised people for decades, and the net effect of all this expense and legal resources has been to create a black market, which the state now wants to form into a monopoly, mostly to tax.

It's been a total failure of the policy.

Is there any reason for it to be particularly heavily taxed? Is it just that anytime Canadians use inebriants to have a good time, they should pay the Queen? Why don't we super-tax jokes? Sex? Rock'n roll?
Toronto Centre





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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 4:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Legalize recreational marijuana: task force Reply with quote

RCO wrote:

its clear they are trying to create another Monopoly like the beer store and the LCBO , to raise more tax revenue

Likely, however likely too is that it is the safe alternative for starting down this path.
CAnt really blame them. However they will not allow the LC and TBS to sell weed....yet.
Quote:

the report also recommends they keep in place criminal offences for growing and trafficking marijuana , which seems rather odd considering there legalising it , obviously they don't want other people to sell or produce the stuff if there not paying taxes into the government

Probably wise to keep (or put on ) the law books. But dont be surprised it gets the same attention as do bootleggers of hard booze. In other words.....you wont hear of it.

The only bootleggers I know live up near Chapleau , but with the hours being liberalized years ago, the LC and TBS are open a lot. Thus the leggers are going broke I imagine.
Quote:

the 18 year age limit is also going to be very difficult to enforce , most high schools have " smoking areas " and allow students to smoke tobacco even though there not legally old enough to go to a convenience store and buy a pack of smokes .
why would a high school want to try and enforce this age limit ? considering the amount of teens smoking the stuff it be nearly impossible to enforce and some of the parents don't care cause they smoke it themselves

RCO...ya gotta keep up.
There is No Smoking anywhere near , on , adjacent to any school anywhere. has been this way for a long time .

Quote:
teen drinking is very ....
...low here in ONtario. Lowest in the whole of Canada according to Statscan.

ETA : http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/8.....dx-eng.htm


Last edited by Toronto Centre on Tue Dec 13, 2016 5:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
RCO





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Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 5:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Legalize recreational marijuana: task force Reply with quote

Toronto Centre wrote:
RCO wrote:

its clear they are trying to create another Monopoly like the beer store and the LCBO , to raise more tax revenue

Likely, however likely too is that it is the safe alternative for starting down this path.
CAnt really blame them. However they will not allow the LC and TBS to sell weed....yet.
Quote:

the report also recommends they keep in place criminal offences for growing and trafficking marijuana , which seems rather odd considering there legalising it , obviously they don't want other people to sell or produce the stuff if there not paying taxes into the government

Probably wise to keep (or put on ) the law books. But dont be surprised it gets the same attention as do bootleggers of hard booze. In other words.....you wont hear of it.

The only bootleggers I know live up near Chapleau , but with the hours being liberalized years ago, the LC and TBS are open a lot. Thus the leggers are going broke I imagine.
Quote:

the 18 year age limit is also going to be very difficult to enforce , most high schools have " smoking areas " and allow students to smoke tobacco even though there not legally old enough to go to a convenience store and buy a pack of smokes .
why would a high school want to try and enforce this age limit ? considering the amount of teens smoking the stuff it be nearly impossible to enforce and some of the parents don't care cause they smoke it themselves

RCO...ya gotta keep up.
There is No Smoking anywhere near , on , adjacent to any school anywhere. has been this way for a long time .

Quote:
teen drinking is very ....
...low here in ONtario. Lowest in the whole of Canada according to Statscan.



I'm not sure if the high schools around here have official smoking areas anymore , maybe I'm thinking of the parks or parking lots beside the high schools where they go to smoke on break or lunch , I've seen many smoking when I drove by over the years , there is definitely teens that smoke here , the schools don't do anything to try and stop it

the drinking rate in generally is very high for some reason where I live , I'm sure I've heard its very high for Ontario and above average , being rural and northern in the sense some people don't have a lot to do and turn to beer and pot I guess .

teen drinking has always been very common at the high schools here , they don't drink when in class obviously but on weekends its something that has been going on for some time , i don't care what the stats say I've seen evidence first hand that its taking place and is very common

my gym is beside the beer store and watching out the window last Friday it was non-stop busy for the short time I was there , people kept coming and going non-stop buying beer , its all some people here care about , beer that is
Toronto Centre





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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
The problem isn't the 'legalization' if you simply want to focus law-enforcement somewhere where it might actually have a benefit. Just take it out of the criminal code. The only reason it is in there, at least for the last 40 years, is as a 'hammer' to squeeze users into turning someone else in.

Im afraid our protectors wouldnt agree to just throw open the doors as it were. But yeah...Im with you on that.


Frankly, I don't see why anyone is very excited about this. It isn't as if it isn't freely available right now. [/quote]
I can tell you why.

As long as the hint of prosecution is there, many otherwise fine citizens free of any criminal record want to keep it that way.
Many many love to travel. Creates an issue should anyone want to go anywhere south, southwest, southeast or northwest (even if destination is NOT the USA) since DHS requires knowing who you are.

Case in point, friend busted as a teen, now in his late 40's and when he was crossing the border to go to Florida, framily in the car, he was not allowed and had to explain to his wife and kids why.
Professionally I run some risk w a charge. I dont want that to happen. If I can walk in and purchase it then that is the way I like it.
Quote:

Is there any reason for it to be particularly heavily taxed? Sex? Rock'n roll?

Sin taxes.

Sex and music are already taxed.
Toronto Centre





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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 5:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Legalize recreational marijuana: task force Reply with quote

RCO wrote:


I'm not sure if the high schools around here have official smoking areas anymore , maybe I'm thinking of the parks or parking lots beside the high schools where they go to smoke on break or lunch , I've seen many smoking when I drove by over the years , there is definitely teens that smoke here , the schools don't do anything to try and stop it

There are none, nada in Ontario.

All parks, school grounds and related parking lots are all non-smoking areas.

And some people speed. Whaddaya going to do?
Quote:

the drinking rate in generally is very high for some reason where I live , I'm sure I've heard its very high for Ontario and above average , being rural and northern in the sense some people don't have a lot to do and turn to beer and pot I guess .

The highest rates are southwestern Ontario. Dont know why, but the overall drinking is lowest in this province versus Canada as a whole.
Quote:
i don't care what the stats say I've seen evidence first hand that its taking place and is very common

Sorry, not to say it uncommon, just that it isnt as common as elsewhere or rather not as prevalent.
Quote:


my gym is beside the beer store and watching out the window last Friday it was non-stop busy for the short time I was there , people kept coming and going non-stop buying beer , its all some people here care about , beer that is

Friday and the beer store is busy.

Yea...I would have guessed so. And?

The pot dispensary on Eglinton was pretty damn busy on the weekend.
Bugs





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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Then there's those damned unintended consequences ...

Quote:
Marijuana Is Harder Than Ever for Younger Teens to Find
Regulated markets for adults have not made it easier for younger people to get marijuana.

By Steven Nelson | Staff Writer Dec. 13, 2016, at 12:02 a.m.

American voters and legislatures increasingly are allowing medical and adult recreational use of marijuana, but as home-growing spreads and retail stores open, younger teens are reporting the scarcest availability in at least 24 years.

Explanations remain theoretical for the surprising trend in the face of widespread liberalization of cannabis laws. But it appears clear that fears about children finding the drug easier to acquire have not become a national reality, at least not yet.

In 2016, 8th-grade and 10th-grade respondents to the large Monitoring the Future survey gave the lowest-ever indication that marijuana was easy to get if they wanted it, a question posed to the groups every year since 1992.

Only 34.6 percent of 8th-grade students said it would be easy to get marijuana, down 2.4 percentage points. Of 10th graders, 64 percent said it would be easy to get, also the lowest rate ever, though not a statistically significant annual drop.

High school seniors, asked the question every year since 1975, reported greater accessibility with 81 percent saying it would be easy to acquire, a non-significant increase from 2015, which saw that age group’s lowest-ever rate.

Actual use of the drug dropped among 8th grade students and stagnated among 12th graders. Reported annual use continued a five-year slide among 10th grade students, though the year-to-year change was not statistically significant. [....]
http://www.usnews.com/news/dat.....ns-to-find


Nobody knows why, and given the (lack of) accuracy of surveys of this kind, it's not a prediction. But it is one possible result in Canada -- Canada being stonersville -- but it's worth thinking about. (I don't accept TC's claims. I know that in Jamaica, Canadians are seen that way, and I'd prefer to take their word for it.)

I think it's interesting that TC comes clean. I give him credit, but does he think he's the only one? How do you imagine coppers relax after a hard day of watching child porn, say? Or perhaps kettling protesters? There's a certain amount of wear and tear involved in abusing the public as a vocation.

TC is afraid of the persecution. I don't blame him, but in real life, the coppers normally don't think a pot bust is worth the paperwork for guys like him. The kids are getting it now, and a lot worse. (I am shocked when I confront the local kids, because prescription pills has destroyed whole families. Out where I now live, you see this happening because it's a small community.) And the cops are useless against it, it seems. I wish it were otherwise.

My point is that the persecution of marijuana has probably been a colossal waste of money and human lives. If it becomes a state monopoly, it won't change that much. It'll be like the 1950ies, when there was a bootlegger close by.
RCO





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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

( this reporter thinks it could still be years away until this plan could actually be fully implemented )


Don't hold your breath: fully legalized pot could still be years away

Legalizing pot is just the 1st step before the more complex task of regulating its use and sale

By Peter Zimonjic, CBC News Posted: Dec 14, 2016 5:00 AM ET| Last Updated: Dec 14, 2016 9:11 AM ET

Setting up the regulatory framework and establishing legal sales outlets for recreational marijuana could take years.




Legislation to make pot legal will hit the House of Commons come spring, but the day when recreational marijuana becomes officially available to buy across the country could still be years away.


"I think one of the things we were struck by was how complex this transition actually is, and not only in terms of drafting legislation at the federal and provincial levels and putting in place all the infrastructure and training, but the psychological transition," former deputy prime minister Anne McLellan told CBC News Network's Power & Politics host Rosemary Barton.


"Going from something that has been prohibited for decades, to a world where it's a legalized product, sold in a regulated market — so the transition is going to be enormous," said McLellan, the chair of the federal government's cannabis task force.


The Department of Justice Canada will first have to embark on a widespread effort to change the Criminal Code and other related federal laws — that effort will kick off in the spring. But what that new law will look like and what kinds of challenges it will face as it moves through Parliament remain a mystery for now.


"This is just the task force report. I mean, obviously it should be influential, but the government could go in a different direction," said Eugene Oscapella, professor of law at the University of Ottawa.


That was certainly the case with the federal government's assisted-dying law. A Commons-Senate committee report tabled in advance of the assisted-dying law called for a much more permissive bill than the Liberal government introduced and passed.

Many are wondering if that could be the case again this time.


"They are going to introduce a bill. Who knows if it's going to buy the recommendations in this report. Please remember it's just recommendations. They might say, 'We like some, we don't like others.' A lot of them are in provincial jurisdiction anyway," said NDP MP Murray Rankin.


Oscapella said the federal government needs to start by sitting down and deciding exactly what parts of the legalization regime will fall under federal jurisdiction and what parts will be provincial.

'A huge practical problem'


Once the federal laws have been changed, Health Canada will have to design a regulatory system for weed, and all this has to happen before the provinces and municipalities figure out how to build a distribution and enforcement system.


"The capacity required to regulate the size of this new market — that is just a huge practical problem that is going to have to be overcome," said Neil Boyd, author of High Society, Legal and Illegal Drugs in Canada and professor of law in the School of Criminology at Simon Fraser University.


Boyd notes that the two main purposes of the move to end cannabis prohibition were to take the market away from organized crime and to keep the drug out of the hands of young people.


But if one province, for example, restricts the sale of weed to a mail order service, while a neighbouring province has a network of retail shops selling the drug, would people start moving it across borders, and if they did, would that be illegal? Or would it simply keep the illegal market open?

Who polices what?


Another concern Boyd raises is the costs of regulation. If regulation increases the price of marijuana well above the current black market price, would cutting out criminals still be possible?


Oscapella said it's one thing to make cannabis legal, but policing the regulations is a separate question. If someone is operating outside those new laws, are they committing a criminal offence, or a regulatory infraction?


If police have reason to believe a person is growing five plants instead of four, as recommended in the task force's report, would police have the same search and seizure powers they do now, or will those have to be changed as well?


These are questions Canada's police forces will want to have answered.


"There has to be a balance between accessibility and control because one objective that we have … is to address the organized crime, to make sure that we can take them away from the distribution and the point of sale as much as possible," said Mario Harel, president of the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police.


"This balance of accessibility and being able to grow, or to be in possession, I think it's a delicate balance that the government has to address in their future bill," he added.

A long road ahead


Rankin said the parliamentary process, let alone the regulatory one, could take a long time to complete.


"You bring a bill in, it goes to committee, three readings … House and Senate. When will we have law? And when will they proclaim the law? It could be years from now," he said.


Liberal MP Bill Blair, parliamentary secretary to the minister of justice and the government's point man on pot legalization, concedes the effort will take time.


"The only precise time frame that we've committed to, is our minister of health has said she will bring legislation forward in the spring of 2017," Blair said.


"We know we've got a great deal of work to do to pass that legislation and even more work to put the regulatory framework and all of the infrastructure that will be necessary in order to do this right, and I will tell you; we are committed to taking the time to do it right."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politic.....-1.3894284
RCO





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Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
Then there's those damned unintended consequences ...

Quote:
Marijuana Is Harder Than Ever for Younger Teens to Find
Regulated markets for adults have not made it easier for younger people to get marijuana.

By Steven Nelson | Staff Writer Dec. 13, 2016, at 12:02 a.m.

American voters and legislatures increasingly are allowing medical and adult recreational use of marijuana, but as home-growing spreads and retail stores open, younger teens are reporting the scarcest availability in at least 24 years.

Explanations remain theoretical for the surprising trend in the face of widespread liberalization of cannabis laws. But it appears clear that fears about children finding the drug easier to acquire have not become a national reality, at least not yet.

In 2016, 8th-grade and 10th-grade respondents to the large Monitoring the Future survey gave the lowest-ever indication that marijuana was easy to get if they wanted it, a question posed to the groups every year since 1992.

Only 34.6 percent of 8th-grade students said it would be easy to get marijuana, down 2.4 percentage points. Of 10th graders, 64 percent said it would be easy to get, also the lowest rate ever, though not a statistically significant annual drop.

High school seniors, asked the question every year since 1975, reported greater accessibility with 81 percent saying it would be easy to acquire, a non-significant increase from 2015, which saw that age group’s lowest-ever rate.

Actual use of the drug dropped among 8th grade students and stagnated among 12th graders. Reported annual use continued a five-year slide among 10th grade students, though the year-to-year change was not statistically significant. [....]
http://www.usnews.com/news/dat.....ns-to-find


Nobody knows why, and given the (lack of) accuracy of surveys of this kind, it's not a prediction. But it is one possible result in Canada -- Canada being stonersville -- but it's worth thinking about. (I don't accept TC's claims. I know that in Jamaica, Canadians are seen that way, and I'd prefer to take their word for it.)

I think it's interesting that TC comes clean. I give him credit, but does he think he's the only one? How do you imagine coppers relax after a hard day of watching child porn, say? Or perhaps kettling protesters? There's a certain amount of wear and tear involved in abusing the public as a vocation.

TC is afraid of the persecution. I don't blame him, but in real life, the coppers normally don't think a pot bust is worth the paperwork for guys like him. The kids are getting it now, and a lot worse. (I am shocked when I confront the local kids, because prescription pills has destroyed whole families. Out where I now live, you see this happening because it's a small community.) And the cops are useless against it, it seems. I wish it were otherwise.

My point is that the persecution of marijuana has probably been a colossal waste of money and human lives. If it becomes a state monopoly, it won't change that much. It'll be like the 1950ies, when there was a bootlegger close by.



I don't know if pot would really be that hard to find for todays teen's , I suspect at most high schools if you knew the right people and part of there social circle , it wouldn't be that hard to get some .

I've heard that around here there is many options and many different people who sell this stuff on the black market , its not a case of 1 single person being responsible , there is actually a number of people selling as a way to make extra money or supply there drug habit

as for the teen alcohol , I've read some different articles about how they get it and one of the more common ways was the parents would actually buy it for them , and why you might ask ?
well from what I read especially for younger women , there is concern that if they go to a party and drink alcohol and someone else brought it . there is a risk it could be spiked or contain a date rape drug . so some parents decide its safer for them to bring there own booze that was purchased by them instead of drinking someone else's
RCO





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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pot-impaired driving alarms raised in wake of marijuana task force report

Bill to legalize pot set for spring 2017 despite lack of 'reliable' tool to detect high drivers

By Kathleen Harris, CBC News Posted: Dec 13, 2016 5:27 PM ET| Last Updated: Dec 13, 2016 7:50 PM ET

The Liberal government plans to table legislation to legalize and regulate marijuana in spring 2017, despite warnings that police don't yet have the tools or training to detect pot-impaired drivers.



The federal task force on legalizing marijuana says the Liberal government must launch a public awareness blitz and boost spending on police training and tools to keep pot-impaired drivers off the roads.

Anne McLellan, a former cabinet minister who chaired the task force, said Canadians are now routinely charged and convicted of drug-impaired driving. But she said right now, there is no reliable, proven roadside test for marijuana intoxication.

"Drug-impaired driving is a problem, is a challenge, here in Canada today," she said. "That is why the science is very quickly catching up. But are we there yet? No."

McLellan said the RCMP, OPP and other police forces across Canada are currently trying out roadside testing devices to determine which one, if any, might be the "breakthrough."


Right now, officers can carry out a standardized field sobriety test, and if they suspect a driver is impaired they can call for an additional evaluation by a drug recognition expert who is properly trained and better able to detect impairment.

Roadside saliva tests

But Andy Murie, chief executive officer of MADD Canada, said while there is no precision around testing impairment levels for marijuana, roadside saliva tests have proven effective in Europe and Australia. Even the current levels for alcohol are "somewhat arbitrary" and limits for pot could be set within a range, he said.

Murie said there should be a zero tolerance policy for young drivers. A failure to put proper rules and enforcement measures in place could prove deadly, he warned.

"If they don't have the driving piece nailed down before you start retail sales of cannabis, you're just going to kill a whole bunch more young people on the road," he said.

Arrest
MADD Canada warns there could be more drug-driving impaired deaths without proper measures to keep stoned drivers off the roads. (Glen Kugelstadt/CBC)

Mario Harel, president of the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police, was pleased the report flagged the concerns of law enforcement officers, who have called for more tools and training. But he said there are still no answers on detection practices as the government prepares to table legislation in the spring.

"There are still a lot of questions on how they are going to determine what impairment is for the drivers," he said.

Senate Opposition leader Claude Carignan tabled a private member's bill this fall designed to stop drug-impaired drivers from getting behind the wheel.

At the time, he described it as a growing problem that goes largely unreported because of a lack of roadside measurement devices. Of all impaired driving charges, he said 97 per cent are for alcohol and only three per cent for drugs and warned the dire situation could become "catastrophic" when marijuana is legalized.

'No good test'

Conservative health critic Collin Carrie echoed those concerns today, insisting the government has no strategy to prevent pot-impaired drivers of vehicles or heavy equipment.

"There's no good test out there," he said, adding that the main "deterrent" right now is that marijuana is illegal.

NDP critic Murray Rankin said the task force report provides some guidance and contains "intriguing ideas" for legislation that could work for Canadians. But he said the impaired driving issue remains a big concern.

"It depends on body weight, it depends on time of consumption, it depends on the THC content of what you've smoked," he said. "The problem is we don't have a good idea, and that's why police in different jurisdictions are particularly concerned about how they're going to address the issue of stoned drivers."



The task force report says the issue of pot-impaired driving generated "a great deal of concern and discussion" during the panel's extensive six-month consultation. It said cannabis-impaired driving is "more complex" to study than alcohol-impaired driving, and recommends a public awareness campaign and greater investment in both research and training and tools for police.

.

McLellan says education key to stop drug impaired driving2:51

Among the task force's findings on pot-impaired driving:
■While scientists agree THC (tetrahydrocannabinol) impairs driving performance, the level of THC in bodily fluids cannot be used to reliably indicate the degree of impairment or crash risk.
■While there is an established metric for alcohol intoxication, there isn't one for cannabis.
■In contrast to alcohol, THC can remain in the brain and body of chronic, heavy users of cannabis for prolonged periods of time, possibly leading to a level of chronic impairment.
■Some heavy, regular users of cannabis, including those who use it for medical purposes, may not show any obvious signs of impairment even with significant THC concentrations in their blood.
■There is a significant combination effect when cannabis is consumed with alcohol, leading to a greater level of intoxication and motor control problems than when either substance is consumed alone
■Roadside testing tools to measure THC presence in a driver's system are "in development." Oral fluid screening devices are the most advanced today, and have the added advantage of signalling recent use.
■Other challenges exist, including the need to account for the rapid and sharp decline of THC levels in the blood in the hours following consumption through smoking; with edibles the decline is more gradual.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politic.....-1.3894337
RCO





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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

( its clear the liberals are trying to drag out this promise for maximum benefit but personally I think the marijuana vote last election was a one off and once they have what they wanted there isn't as much motivation to come back and vote again , the places in the US that had marijuana legalisation votes like Colorado it was just a one time thing and then people moved on , I don't think its a group of voters you can come back to and expect to vote on mass again and again )


Politics Briefing

Just in time for the next election: legal weed



The Globe and Mail


Published Wednesday, Dec. 14, 2016 8:55AM EST


POLITICS BRIEFING

WHAT YOU SHOULD KNOW THIS MORNING

> You’ll be able to legally toke just in time for the next election, according to Liberal sources. A federally appointed task force has recommended a regime for recreational marijuana that would make it available at store fronts and to Canadians over 18, though much of the details will be left to the provinces to work out. The buds will be lab-tested for safety – an issue The Globe raised this year.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com.....e33318466/
Toronto Centre





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Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:


Nobody knows why, and given the (lack of) accuracy of surveys of this kind, it's not a prediction. But it is one possible result in Canada -- Canada being stonersville -- but it's worth thinking about. (I don't accept TC's claims. I know that in Jamaica, Canadians are seen that way, and I'd prefer to take their word for it.)

I know you dont accept my claims, and I also know you wont go look , but had you.....you would have found...Spain, USA,Nigeria, New Zealand (the most),Italy,Zambia.....and wait for it...#1 is...Iceland . All percentages bigger than Canada.(Some sites swithc these around but most conclude these as prevalent use)
Quote:

I think it's interesting that TC comes clean. I give him credit, but does he think he's the only one? How do you imagine coppers relax after a hard day of watching child porn, say? Or perhaps kettling protesters? There's a certain amount of wear and tear involved in abusing the public as a vocation.

I dont imagine.....I know.

Lots of cops smoke after work. I know them.
Quote:


TC is afraid of the persecution. I don't blame him, but in real life, the coppers normally don't think a pot bust is worth the paperwork for guys like him.
The concern has lessened in recent years, but the concern is still relevant .

Cops may tack a charge of possession on other charges and see what sticks. They may not too, however the concern is answering the border guards question of 'have you ever been charged with an offence." This is a Q that they ask when they KNOW the answers. Failure to be honest could result in being barred...for a whil or for life pending some action on the removal of that from a persons record.

There are also professional concerns for my licensing.

Quote:

My point is that the persecution of marijuana has probably been a colossal waste of money and human lives. If it becomes a state monopoly, it won't change that much. It'll be like the 1950ies, when there was a bootlegger close by.
Abosultely true ....but expand that to all drugs.
Giant waste of money.
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