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RCO





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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:26 pm    Post subject: bill introduced to scrap The Electoral college ? Reply with quote

( long shot crazy legislation from a retiring senator , doomed to never pass as the smaller states wouldn't give up there votes and limited power in exchange for nothing ? if there was no electoral college what would decide the winner ? there'd be no point to campaign in any of the smaller states and towns if winner decided by popular vote nationwide )


Outgoing California Sen. Boxer introduces bill to scrap Electoral College


Published November 16, 2016
· FoxNews.com



Retiring Sen. Barbara Boxer, D-Calif., introduced long-shot legislation Tuesday to scrap the Electoral College, in the latest protest from Democrats following last week's election where Hillary Clinton appeared to win the popular vote despite losing to Donald Trump.

Trump, as with all presidential election victors, won the election because he garnered the most Electoral College votes.

But he likely will be the fifth president in American history to do so while losing the popular vote. The last president to win the presidency in such a manner was President George W. Bush, who beat Democrat Al Gore in 2000 despite Gore gaining more overall votes.

“This is the only office in the land where you can get more votes and still lose the presidency. The Electoral College is an outdated, undemocratic system that does not reflect our modern society, and it needs to change immediately,” Boxer said in a statement.

The legislation is almost certainly doomed in a Republican-dominated Congress. In the unlikely event it passed, the measure would still require ratification by three-fourths of the states within seven years of passage, as it would seek to amend the Constitution.

Boxer noted that in 2012, Trump had tweeted his dislike of the Electoral College. Trump said in a "60 Minutes" interview that aired Sunday that he would be fine seeing the college replaced by a vote that favors “simple votes.” He later tweeted that if that were the case, he would have campaigned differently and still beaten Clinton. He also called the Electoral College “genius.”

The Los Angeles Times notes that Boxer has co-sponsored bills to abolish the Electoral College before, and none have been considered by Congress

http://www.foxnews.com/politic.....llege.html
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The popular vote is about running up support in States that are already behind you;
The Electoral College at a minimum assures that there is some stake associated with the smaller swing states.

Had it been about Popular vote, I suspect both candidates would have campaigned very differently.
RCO





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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cosmostein wrote:
The popular vote is about running up support in States that are already behind you;
The Electoral College at a minimum assures that there is some stake associated with the smaller swing states.

Had it been about Popular vote, I suspect both candidates would have campaigned very differently.


I posted the article as I was curious what others though might be an alternative to the electoral college ?
and as an example to demonstrate how whenever liberals lose suddenly there are calls to change the entire electoral system , much like in Canada after harper won in 2011 there were similar calls from the left to switch to a proportional representation system

there hadn't been many trying to change the system in 2008 and 2012 when Obama won the electoral college but suddenly now its bad ?

when I was flipping thru google there had been attempts to switch states like Michigan and Pennsylvania to a congressional districts system instead of winner take all , similar to how Maine and Nebraska vote , bizarrely if those plans had gone thru Clinton would of at least got some electoral votes out of those states instead of leaving with nothing , she would of got 5 or 6 votes minimum from both but not enough to change the outcome

I also can't see what system they would use instead ? smaller states like Iowa and North Dakota as examples would never vote to abolish the electoral college cause they'd be giving what little influence they have away and instead major cities like New York and Los Angeles would hold most of the power to elect a president .

10 million people live in Los Angeles county alone that's more than the states of
( North Dakota , Wyoming , Montana , South Dakota , Idaho , Iowa and Nebraska ) combined , its extremely unlikely the smaller states would agree to anything that took there voice away
Bugs





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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2016 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is one of those sneaky attacks on the Constitution. I think its comparable to the Liberals attempt to bring PR into Canadian voting. It does the same thing -- it 'nationalizes' what is really a set of 52 separate state elections. As Democrats see it, as the cities get bigger, and fill with more and more immigrants, it will produce a larger vote for them.

But the Electoral College was created to make sure the selection of the President was an act of the various states, not the population as a whole. It was a part of the original deal.

I doubt if Boxer's bill will pass, it the present Congress, but it will serve as a model, and there might be other attempts.
RCO





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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2016 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

( now the left is trying to push recounts in 3 states that voted for trump , it would seem to be extremely unlikely there going to uncover any evidence of voter fraud or many missing or uncounted ballots , trumps win in Wisconsin was about 27,257 votes which doesn't seem like that much but still a large enough number that would be unlikely to be overturned by a recount )




Jill Stein to formally file for Wisconsin recount as fundraising effort nears $5m


For some the campaign is a chance to show Hillary Clinton is the rightful winner, while others see Stein’s intervention as a gimmick to promote the Green party


Green party presidential nominee Jill Stein’s campaign aims to fund recounts in Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin, all states where Clinton narrowly lost. Photograph: Win McNamee/Getty Images


Amanda Holpuch in New York



Friday 25 November 2016 17.03 GMT Last modified on Friday 25 November 2016 17.44 GMT




Jill Stein, the green party’s candidate in the US presidential election, is due to formally file a motion for a recount in Wisconsin on Friday as her funding effort for counting the votes again in three states passed $4.9m.

As more money flooded in for her effort – which aims to fund recounts in Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin, all states where Donald Trump narrowly beat Hillary Clinton – she admitted she had no hard evidence of fraud but said the systems were vulnerable.


Her campaign team said it would formally file in Wisconsin before the 5pm ET deadline to do so; the recount motion deadlines for the other two states are next week.

The fundraising site explained that Stein’s campaign “could not guarantee” any of these states would have a recount. “We can only pledge we will demand recounts in those states,” the site said. “If we raise more than what’s needed, the surplus will also go toward election integrity efforts and to promote voting system reform.”

Her effort has split liberals, with some energized by the potential to show defeated Democrat Clinton is the rightful election winner, and those who see Stein’s intervention as an expensive gimmick to promote the Green party.


On Friday, Stein said she was acting due to “compelling evidence of voting anomalies” and that data analysis had indicated “significant discrepancies in vote totals” that were released by state authorities.


“We do not have a smoking gun,” Stein told CNN. “On the other hand, we have a system that invites hacking, tampering and malfeasance”.


She said her campaign had no direct evidence voting systems had been hacked - something which independent experts have also been skeptical about. And Stein insisted the recount was not meant to block Donald Trump, the surprise election winner, from becoming president.


“Both of the candidates were at the highest level of distrust and dislike in our history and in my view, we as voters deserve a voting system that we can believe in,” Stein said. “And to my mind, having a verified vote is just a first step”.

Stein launched the campaign amid wider calls to recount or audit election results. Groups of academics and activists were concerned that foreign hackers may have interfered with voting systems, though none have provided evidence such hacking occurred.

These groups have called on Clinton to intervene. She is leading in the popular vote by more than 2.1m votes, a lead which is expected to grow. But, Trump won narrow victories against Clinton in Pennsylvania and Wisconsin earlier this month and was declared the victor in Michigan on Thursday – sealing his electoral college win.


‘We do not have a smoking gun,’ Jill Stein has said. ‘On the other hand, we have a system that invites hacking, tampering and malfeasance.’

‘We do not have a smoking gun,’ Jill Stein has said. ‘On the other hand, we have a system that invites hacking, tampering and malfeasance.’ Photograph: Mandel Ngan/AFP/Getty Images

Stein’s effort, launched on Wednesday afternoon, is directed at funding recounts in those three states. Stein quickly surpassed the initial $2m fundraising goal by early Thursday morning, prompting her campaign to raise the goal to $4.5m. After crossing that threshold, the campaign increased the goal to $7m.

These funds will be used to file recount requests and for attorney’s fees, according to Stein’s campaign manager, David Cobb. He said $1m is needed for Wisconsin, $600,000 for Michigan and $500,000 for Pennsylvania. The rest of the money is expected to go to legal fees associated with the recount.

Adam Parkhomenko, national field director for the Democratic national convention and a longtime Hillary aide said he does not support Jill Stein and “never will,” but: “I support democracy and the right to count every vote. And kudos to her for leading on this.”

US elections are so dominated by Democratic and Republican candidates, that third-party candidates like Stein are more often seen as a protest vote than a person with a legitimate shot at the White House. But these votes can greatly impact the race, for instance: Stein’s total votes in Michigan and Wisconsin were greater than the gap between Clinton and Trump, as were votes for the other major third party candidate, libertarian Gary Johnson.

And while it cannot be assumed that Stein voters would have turned their votes to Clinton if she had not been on the ballot, it is a sensitive issue in such a tight race.

“I really wish Jill Stein had not waited until after the election to be so concerned about a few thousand votes tipping the election to Trump,” said Dan Pfeiffer, a former senior policy advisor to Barack Obama.

He criticized the fundraising campaign as a “wasted” effort and said funds could be better used to help Democrats in smaller, local races.

There was more energy around third party candidates in 2016 because of the unpopularity of the main party candidates. Yet, in the past two days, Stein’s recount campaign has raised more money than she did in the entirety of the presidential campaign. As of 19 October, Stein had raised $3.5m for her presidential race, according to the Center for Responsive Politics. As of 10am ET on Friday, the recount campaign had raised $4.8m.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/25/jill-stein-election-recount-clinton-trump-michigan-pennsylvania-wisconsin
RCO





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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2016 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wisconsin recount looms as Trump makes administration picks


Steve Peoples, THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

First posted: Friday, November 25, 2016 10:51 AM EST | Updated: Friday, November 25, 2016 07:39 PM EST


MADISON, Wis. — President-elect Donald Trump pressed forward Friday with two more administration picks, as failed Green Party candidate Jill Stein took new steps to force recounts across key Midwestern battlegrounds that could complicate Trump’s push for national unity.

Stein, who earned little more than 1 per cent of the national vote, formally requested a Wisconsin recount Friday afternoon, vowing to do the same in the coming days in Michigan and Pennsylvania. Wisconsin officials confirmed Friday evening they would move forward with the first presidential recount in state history. There is no evidence of election tampering in the states where Trump scored razor-thin victories, but Green Party spokesman George Martin insisted “the American public needs to have it investigated to make sure our votes count.”

“We’re doing this to ensure the integrity of our system,” he said.

Trump’s team ignored questions about the looming recounts. Set to assume the presidency in 55 days, he was focused instead on the daunting task of building an administration from scratch.

Gathered with family at his Mar-a-Lago Palm Beach estate for the holiday weekend, the incoming president made two senior-level staff appointments and scheduled meetings with several more prospective administration officials.

He tapped Fox News analyst Kathleen Troia “KT” McFarland to serve as deputy national security adviser and campaign attorney Donald McGahn as White House counsel. In a statement, Trump cited McFarland’s “tremendous experience and innate talent” and said McGhan “has a brilliant legal mind, excellent character and a deep understanding of constitutional law.”

Having faced criticism about the inexperience of his initial picks, Trump finds in McFarland someone who previously worked under three presidents, although none since Ronald Reagan. McGhan, a veteran Republican election lawyer, served as Trump’s attorney during the campaign.

Neither position requires Senate confirmation.

Trump transition spokesman Sean Spicer said the president-elect scheduled Monday meetings with eight more prospective administration hires, a group that includes several business leaders, Pennsylvania Rep. Lou Barletta, and David Clarke, the Wisconsin sheriff who is an aggressive opponent of the Black Lives Matter movement.

Facing external pressure from Stein, there were also signs of internal discord within the president-elect’s small inner circle as Trump weighed his choices for secretary of state.

The options for the nation’s chief diplomat include former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani, who lacks foreign policy experience but was intensely loyal to Trump, and 2012 Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney, who aggressively opposed Trump’s candidacy but is largely regarded as more qualified.

Trump spokeswoman Kellyanne Conway took the unusual step of shining light on the controversy over the Thanksgiving holiday, tweeting that she had been “receiving a deluge of social media & private concerns re: Romney Some Trump loyalists warn against Romney as sec of state.”

Meanwhile, Stein announced on her website she has raised enough money to fund recounts in Wisconsin and Pennsylvania and was pursuing additional funding to do the same in Michigan.

Trump’s Nov. 8 victory was unexpected and historic, by some measures.

Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton leads the national popular vote by close to 2 million votes. Trump scored narrow victories in key battleground states, however, giving him the necessary 270 electoral votes to assume the presidency.

He won in Pennsylvania. He won in Wisconsin, breaking a Democratic winning streak dating back 32 years. He holds a slim lead in Michigan, where a Republican presidential candidate hadn’t won since 1988; The Associated Press still hasn’t officially called that race.

Wisconsin, where Trump leads by little more than 22,000 votes, has never before conducted a presidential recount. It will this year, state administrator Michael Haas announced Friday, citing recount requests by Stein and independent candidate Rocky De La Fuente.

“The Commission is preparing to move forward with a statewide recount of votes for President of the United States, as requested by these candidates,” Haas said, noting that the recount is expected to be completed by the Dec. 13 federal deadline.

In Michigan, Trump’s 10,704-vote lead is expected to be certified by the state elections board Monday. The deadline to ask for a recount is Wednesday.

A statewide recount would cost Stein roughly $790,000, said Fred Woodhams, a spokesman for the Michigan secretary of state. An opposing candidate would have seven days to file objections to the recount petition, after which the board would schedule a public hearing and later issue a ruling on the objections.

Trump’s transition team indicated he was focused on the challenges of governing.

Since arriving at his Palm Beach estate Wednesday, they said, the president-elect has spoken to the prime ministers of Greece, Hungary and Sweden, along with the presidents of Panama and Slovenia.

He is expected to return to his New York City home on Sunday.

http://www.torontosun.com/2016.....jobs-in-us
RCO





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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

( trump does have a good point , Hilary conceded the election already , its over , my understanding of elections is once a candidate calls the winner to concede its over . having a recount is utterly pointless if you've already admitted its over )


Donald Trump: Recount push 'a scam'


Steve Peoples, THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

First posted: Saturday, November 26, 2016 02:10 PM EST | Updated: Saturday, November 26, 2016 10:09 PM EST


WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. — President-elect Donald Trump on Saturday condemned a growing push to force recounts in three states pivotal to his Nov. 8 victory, confronting the Green Party-backed effort for the first time even as he worked to address key Cabinet vacancies.

The New York billionaire, who charged the election was “rigged” on a daily basis before his victory, called the developing recount effort “a scam” in a statement released by his transition team.

Trump had been ignoring Green Party nominee Jill Stein’s fight to revisit vote totals in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania. Wisconsin officials announced late Friday they are moving forward with the first presidential recount in state history.

“The people have spoken and the election is over,” Trump declared Saturday. He added, “We must accept this result and then look to the future.”

At the same time, Trump was scrambling to address unfilled administration jobs, having barely scratched the surface of creating the massive team needed to run the government before his Jan. 20 inauguration.

Experts say presidential transitions are periods of great vulnerability for the nation, and among the vacancies on the Trump team are leaders of the departments of State, Defence and Homeland Security.

Trump, who has virtually no experience in foreign affairs, offered a one-line tweet Saturday morning in reaction to the death of Cuban leader Fidel Castro — “Fidel Castro is dead!” — before issuing a more detailed statement.

“While Cuba remains a totalitarian island, it is my hope that today marks a move away from the horrors endured for too long, and toward a future in which the wonderful Cuban people finally live in the freedom they so richly deserve,” Trump said.

His transition team did not respond to requests to clarify his Cuba policy, which was inconsistent during the campaign.

Trump first suggested he supported President Barack Obama’s orders loosening the U.S. trade embargo on the island. He reversed himself less than a month before the election, however, vowing to overturn Obama’s order unless Cuba meets demands including “religious and political freedom for the Cuban people and the freeing of political prisoners.”

Meanwhile, the incoming president paid little if any attention Stein’s recount push, but Democratic rival Hillary Clinton forced his hand on Saturday by formally joining the effort. Stein, who drew 1 per cent of the vote nationally, is raising millions of dollars to fund the recounts.

“Because we had not uncovered any actionable evidence of hacking or outside attempts to alter the voting technology, we had not planned to exercise this option ourselves,” Clinton campaign attorney Marc Elias wrote Saturday in blog post. “But now that a recount has been initiated in Wisconsin, we intend to participate in order to ensure the process proceeds in a manner that is fair to all sides.”

Elias said Clinton would take the same approach in Pennsylvania and Michigan if Stein were to follow through with recount requests those states, even though that was highly unlikely to change the election outcome.

“Regardless of the potential to change the outcome in any of the states, we feel it is important, on principle, to ensure our campaign is legally represented in any court proceedings and represented on the ground in order to monitor the recount process itself,” Elias wrote.

Clinton leads the national popular vote by close to 2 million votes, but Trump won 290 electoral votes to Clinton’s 232, with Michigan still too close to call. It takes 270 to win the presidency.

Trump, who repeatedly challenged the integrity of the U.S. election system before his win, called the recount push “a scam by the Green Party for an election that has already been conceded.”

“The results of this election should be respected instead of being challenged and abused, which is exactly what Jill Stein is doing,” he said in the statement, which didn’t mention Clinton’s involvement.

Trump was spending the Thanksgiving holiday weekend with family at his Palm Beach estate, Mar-a-Lago. He had planned to focus on filling key administration posts over the working vacation. On Friday, he named Fox News analyst Kathleen Troia “KT” McFarland as deputy national security adviser and appointed campaign attorney Donald McGahn as White House counsel.

Trump planned to return to his New York home on Sunday ahead of a series of Monday meetings with prospective administration hires, including Sheriff David Clarke of Milwaukee County, Wisconsin. He’s seen as a possible Homeland Security pick. Clarke’s vocal opposition to the “Black Lives Matter” movement has made him popular with many conservatives.

Trump and Vice-President-elect Mike Pence also have Monday meetings scheduled with Oklahoma Attorney General Scott Pruitt, Rep. Lou Barletta, R-Pa., former Security and Exchange Commission commissioner Paul Atkins, World Wide Technology chairman David Steward and General Growth Properties CEO Sandeep Mathrani.

Internal divisions over his choice for secretary of state have delayed that critical decision. The options include former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani, who lacks foreign policy experience, but was intensely loyal to Trump, and 2012 Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney, who aggressively opposed Trump’s candidacy but is largely regarded as more qualified. Tennessee Sen. Bob Corker is also a possibility.

Meanwhile, Liberty University President Jerry Falwell Jr. says Trump offered him the job of Secretary of Education, but he turned it down for personal reasons.

Falwell told The Associated Press on Saturday that Trump wanted a four- to six-year commitment, but Falwell says he couldn’t leave Liberty for more than two years. Trump announced Wednesday he had selected charter school advocate Betsy DeVos for the job.

http://www.torontosun.com/2016.....r-recounts
RCO





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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the bs about this recount , is Gore and Kerry both beat Bush by margins less than what trump won Wisconsin by this year and there was not state wide recounts in 2000 or 2004 , its clear the only reason there having a recount is cause trump won not that there has been a need for them in the past



United States presidential election in Wisconsin, 2000[3]

Democratic Albert Arnold Gore Jr. 1,242,987 47.83% 11

Republican George Walker Bush 1,237,279 47.61%


United States presidential election in Wisconsin, 2004



Democratic John Forbes Kerry 1,489,504 49.7% 10

Republican George Walker Bush 1,478,120 49.3%


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election_in_Wisconsin,_2004
Bugs





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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Terrific point. I suspect we can expect this from the Democrats into the future. Al Gore set a precedent.

Even if Trump loses Wisconsin and Michigan, it won't be enough.
RCO





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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
Terrific point. I suspect we can expect this from the Democrats into the future. Al Gore set a precedent.

Even if Trump loses Wisconsin and Michigan, it won't be enough.



another big question to Stein and the others wanting a recount ? if its about democracy and cause these states were close ? why not ask for a recount in the state which was actually the closest this election and no it wasn't Wisconsin , it was actually New Hampshire where Hilary barely won by 3000 votes maybe ? surely that is a margin worthy of a recount if this was really about verifying the results so people can have faith in the system




New Hampshire general election results
– Summary of results –



Democratic Hillary Clinton 348,526 47.62%
Republican Donald Trump 345,790 47.25%


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election_in_New_Hampshire,_2016
RCO





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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

( this is a crazy waste of money , why pay $1million dollars to have a bunch of ballots recounted , they even came out and said they don't expect to find more than 300 questionable ballots , far less than the 1000's they'd need to find to overturn the results )


Wisconsin officials agree to proceed with vote recount, but not without 'full payment'


Published November 28, 2016
· FoxNews.com



The Wisconsin Elections Commission agreed Monday to go forward with requests to recount residents’ votes for the 2016 presidential election and said the process will begin as soon the campaign for Green Party candidate Jill Stein or the other petitioner “make full payment” by Tuesday.

Elections Supervisor Ross Hein set out the timetable following the recount requests Friday by Stein and Independent Party candidate Rocky De La Fuente.

Stein has argued that the recount -- joined over the weekend by Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton -- is to ensure that Russia or anybody else has not tampered with the country’s election system.

However, Stein is also seeking recounts in Michigan and Pennsylvania.

She has raised $6.2 million toward her goal of $7 million and made her official request in Wisconsin on Friday.

Wisconsin commission officials told FoxNews.com on Monday that staffers are scheduled to have a solid cost estimate by about 3 p.m. Monday and that Stein and/or La Fuente will have to pay additional money if the staff underestimates the cost.


Republican president-elect Donald Trump won in Pennsylvania and Wisconsin and holds a slim lead in Michigan, in his Nov. 8 upset victory.

Wisconsin's unofficial election results show Trump with 1.4 million votes, compared to 1.38 million to Clinton.

Trump over the weekend called the effort “ridiculous” and a Stein fundraising “scam.”

Hillary for America attorney Marc Elias said Saturday the decision to join in the recount came after numerous meeting with experts and an outpouring of requests “urging us to do something, anything, to investigate claims that the election results were hacked and altered in a way to disadvantage Secretary Clinton.”

Under federal law, the recount must be done by Dec. 13.

Heim said that on Wednesday, if the money is received, all 72 county clerks will begin reviewing recount procedures, with the physical process beginning Thursday.

“Absent the payment, there will not be” a recount, commission Chairman Mark Thomsen said Monday.

Wisconsin law calls for the state to perform a recount at a candidate's request as long as he or she can pay for it. The state has never performed a presidential recount. Election officials estimate the effort will cost up to $1 million.

While there is no evidence of election tampering in the states, Green Party spokesman George Martin insisted "the American public needs to have it investigated to make sure our votes count."

Thomsen also said he didn’t expect to find more the 300 questionable ballots.

“If nothing else, this will give us audit,” he said. “We are not counting illegal people. We are not counting dead people’s votes.”

http://www.foxnews.com/politic.....yment.html
RCO





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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

( a blog post claims stein's recount is really about trying to have the electoral college votes of these states voided and not included in the Dec 19 vote so that trump will be unable to meet the 270 needed to win , of course Clinton wouldn't be able to win either in this scenario so it could end up creating one hell of a crisis )



Stein’s Recount May Prevent WI, PA, MI Votes From Being Counted by Electoral College

Jim Hoft Nov 27th, 2016 9:04 am —


Jill Stein is asking for recounts in an effort to nullify the electoral votes of Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania.

Federal law says that presidential recounts must be completed within 35 days after an election. Stein waited until 90 minutes before the Wisconsin deadline for filing a recount petition expired.

All the votes have to be certified by December 13 according to a report on Friday. The electors meet on December 19.

Wisconsin will almost certainly miss that deadline, since the last recount took more than a month. And that recount was for a state Supreme Court contest where only 1.5 million votes were cast.

If Wisconsin misses the December 19 deadline, the electoral votes may not be counted.

Stein is going to ask for a hand recount, which will slow the process even further.


If Wisconsin’s electoral votes are excluded on December 19, the state will then have to try and get Congress to include the votes in the January 6 count.


According to Inquisitr:


The statewide recount in the presidential election would require a recount of nearly twice as many ballots — about 3 million — and the process would become even more cumbersome if Stein is successful in requiring a recount by hand, as she has said she prefers.

If the proposed Wisconsin recount is not completed on time, the state’s 10 Electoral College votes could be rendered void. In that scenario, Trump would be left with 296 electoral votes, which is still 26 more than the 270 needed to win the presidency.

But two other states, Michigan and Pennsylvania, where Stein plans to demand a recount could cause even more severe turmoil.

So the situation is actually much worse than most people think.

Stein may successfully strip Trump of the electoral votes of Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania. If so, it’ll be up to Congress to decide whether they include the votes or not.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.co.....l-college/
RCO





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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Media Buzz

Recount Madness: Jill Stein launches it, Hillary backs it, Trump fuels it



Howard Kurtz

By Howard Kurtz
·Published November 29, 2016
· FoxNews.com



Why on earth are we suddenly debating whether Donald Trump won the election, which he clearly did fair and square?

You can blame Jill Stein, Hillary Clinton's lawyers, and Trump himself.

This is just surreal, how a nuisance filing by a fringe candidate has suddenly become a massive media controversy in which nobody looks particularly good.

The whole notion of a recount is absurd. Clinton may have won the popular vote, but this isn’t the hanging-chads environment of 2000. Trump has more than 300 electoral votes, and he will be the next president.

So along comes Stein, the Green Party candidate, and as a fundraising and attention-getting device, she successfully pushes for a recount in Wisconsin. This is, of course, ludicrous, since Trump won the state by more than 20,000 votes. (Stein is trying now in Pennsylvania, which Trump won by 70,000 votes.)

Clinton, who conceded on Election Night, had not asked for a recount. But her lawyer, while conceding the campaign has no “actionable evidence” of hacking or other illegalities, agrees to cooperate.

And that ticks off Trump, who has clearly been smarting over the fact that Clinton leads by 2 million in the popular vote. Even though that doesn’t amount to squat, since he’s got more than 300 electoral votes.

First Trump unleashed a tweetstorm at his Democratic opponent, quoting her as saying during the campaign that it would be “horrifying” if Trump didn’t accept the election outcome.

Then came this: “In addition to winning the Electoral College in a landslide, I won the popular vote if you deduct the millions of people who voted illegally.”

Millions?

That created a firestorm. The Trump transition team offered no evidence of such widespread fraud. Communications director Jason Miller pointed to a two-year-old Washington Post blog by two academics saying 14 percent of non-citizens were registered to vote in past elections. (The piece also said “most non-citizens do not register, let alone vote.”) But that doesn’t prove anything about 2016. There are usually isolated episodes of voter fraud or chicanery, but not “millions of people.”


The result?

Politico: “Trump's Baseless Assertions of Voter Fraud Called 'Stunning'”:

“Donald Trump on Sunday used the platform of the presidency to peddle a fringe conspiracy theory to justify his loss of the popular vote, claiming without evidence that millions of people voted illegally Nov. 8.”

New York Times: “Trump Claims, With No Evidence, That ‘Millions of People’ Voted Illegally”:

“President-elect Donald J. Trump said on Sunday that he had fallen short in the popular vote in the general election only because millions of people had voted illegally, leveling the baseless claim as part of a daylong storm of Twitter posts voicing anger about a three-state recount push.”

“Washington Post: “Trump pushes conspiracy theory that ‘millions’ voted illegally for Clinton”:

“President-elect Donald Trump spent Sunday ridiculing Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign for joining a recount effort in Wisconsin, ending his day on Twitter by parroting a widely debunked conspiracy theory that her campaign benefited from massive voter fraud.”


The controversy prompted a Clinton campaign spokeswoman to say: “Winning the electoral college won him the presidency, so Trump's excuses on why he lost the popular vote by millions are just small and sad.” And Snopes debunks it here.

And Trump wasn’t done. Last night he launched a Twitter assault against CNN and its reporter Jeff Zeleny, retweeting attacks like this: “What PROOF do u have DonaldTrump did not suffer from millions of FRAUD votes? Journalist? Do your job! @CNN"

In effect, he is now asking journalists to prove a negative, that he wasn’t defrauded in the election.

I have no idea why Trump went there. He’s in the process of putting together a government. He knows everyone would campaign differently if we picked presidents by popular vote. He knows that the recount is going to fizzle. Why give the media ammunition to again charge that he’s making claims without evidence?

It feels like we’ve been thrust back into the middle of the campaign. But it’s a make-believe campaign. The real one ended on Nov. 8.

http://www.foxnews.com/politic.....ls-it.html
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RCO wrote:


10 million people live in Los Angeles county alone that's more than the states of
( North Dakota , Wyoming , Montana , South Dakota , Idaho , Iowa and Nebraska ) combined , its extremely unlikely the smaller states would agree to anything that took there voice away


Exactly this.

If you start to take population as the be all and end all then I would imagine the next discussion you are having is why Wyoming and its population of 590,000ish has the same amount of Senators as California and its population of 40,000,000ish.

There is no way or interest that middle America would ever vote to give additional powers to larger states.
Bugs





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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a suggestion that, by demanding recounts, the Electoral College will meet without representation from the recount states -- which would give Hillary a chance to win because she has the majority of the remaining electoral votes. The maneuver would effectively take away Trump's margin of victory.

If it's tied, the vote goes to the House of Representatives, where the Republicans dominate.

There is also the widespread belief that the Greens are using this to raise money for other of their causes.

If they try to take the presidency away from Trump, it will amount to a coup d'état. It could easily lead to violence, and who knows what else.
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bill introduced to scrap The Electoral college ?

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