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RCO





Joined: 02 Mar 2009
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Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
There's a suggestion that, by demanding recounts, the Electoral College will meet without representation from the recount states -- which would give Hillary a chance to win because she has the majority of the remaining electoral votes. The maneuver would effectively take away Trump's margin of victory.

If it's tied, the vote goes to the House of Representatives, where the Republicans dominate.

There is also the widespread belief that the Greens are using this to raise money for other of their causes.

If they try to take the presidency away from Trump, it will amount to a coup d'état. It could easily lead to violence, and who knows what else.



I don't think Hilary could win the electoral college vote even without these 3 states , my understanding is they need " 270 " votes to win , that number is important for some reason

although another odd scenario would be she could try and go to the supreme court or something and have them make her the winner cause she won popular vote in the event the electoral college was not able to decide the winner , but that is an extreme long shot and deep down the democrats know it wouldn't fly with middle America
Bugs





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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not so, there have been times the electoral college deadlocked, and the deal-making commenced. Jefferson and Aaron Burr tied, and the decision went to the House of Representatives. In the end, the presidency was decided by some deal-making which was felt to be unseemly at the time.

That's how 'reconstruction' ended -- a deal cooked up in the Electoral College. Tilden was ahead 184 to 165, with 20 votes being challenged, for one reason or another. These 20 votes were used as leverage and they were awarded to Hayes under the understanding that he would end the post-Civil War occupation of the South, called 'Reconstruction' by historians.

I suppose that this is why the Trump camp is guarding itself.
RCO





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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

( Clinton see's the recount as a waste of time but still joining the recount and asking it be done by hand which will force it to take much longer and possibly past the dec 13 deadline , these recounts are clearly going to put the electoral college vote on dec 19th in jeopardy of not having enough voters present to reach 270 )



Clinton team sees recount effort as waste of resources


Lisa Lerer, THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

First posted: Wednesday, November 30, 2016 07:23 AM EST | Updated: Wednesday, November 30, 2016 07:32 AM EST


WASHINGTON — Hillary Clinton’s aides and supporters are urging dispirited Democrats to channel their frustrations about the election results into political causes — just not into efforts to recount ballots in three battleground states.

The former Democratic presidential candidate and her close aides see the recount drive largely as a waste of resources, according to people close to Clinton. The effort is being fueled by Green Party candidate Jill Stein, who’s formed an organization to try to force recounts in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania.

“Believe me if there was anything I could do to make Hillary Clinton the next president of the United States I would,” said former Pennsylvania Gov. Ed Rendell, a longtime Clinton supporter. “But this is a big waste of time.”

Aides say Clinton is focused on moving past her unexpected defeat and has devoted little attention to the recount or thinking about her political future. She’s been spending time with her grandchildren and going for walks near her Westchester home. Sightings of Clinton hiking with her dogs and shopping at a Rhode Island bookstore went viral on social media.

“There have been a few times this past week where all I wanted to do was curl up with a good book and our dogs and never leave the house again,” Clinton said in an emotional speech at a gala for the Children’s Defence Fund, her one public appearance since her loss.

Former President Bill Clinton, meanwhile, has been poring over the election results, second-guessing decisions by top campaign aides and intensely trying to figure out how his wife lost the white working-class voters who were the base of his electoral coalition, say people familiar with the campaign.

Clinton’s team was aware of possible discrepancies soon after the election, telling top donors on a conference call four days after the election that they were looking into potential problems in the three states. But while many campaign staffers believe Russian hacking influenced the outcome of the election, blaming foreign actors for incursions into campaign and Democratic National Committee emails, they’ve found no evidence of the kind of widespread ballot box tampering that would change the results of the race — or even flip a single state.

Still, some dejected Clinton supporters have been unwilling to accept the results. Stein has raised $6.5 million for her recount campaign, according to a count posted on her campaign website on Tuesday. That’s nearly double the roughly $3.5 million she raised during her entire presidential bid.

Some former Clinton aides have asked frustrated supporters to donate their dollars to what they view as more constructive causes, like state parties or the Democratic candidate in Louisiana, where a Dec. 10 runoff will be the party’s last chance to pick up a Senate seat this year.

“I wouldn’t give a dollar to Jill Stein,” said Adam Parkhomenko, a longtime Clinton aide. “Volunteers, supporters and Democrats, they want to pick themselves up and get back out there. The best vehicle to do that is the Louisiana Senate race.”

Clinton’s team conducted an exhaustive investigation into the possibility of outside interference in the vote tally, tasking lawyers, data scientists and political analysts to comb over the results. They contacted outside experts, examined the laws governing recounts and double-checked all the vote tallies.

The campaign found no “evidence of manipulation,” wrote Marc Elias, the general counsel for Clinton’s campaign, in an online essay. But, he said, Clinton agreed to minimal participation in Stein’s effort, largely to make sure that her interests are represented. They put out a call for volunteers to monitor the proceedings and are relying on local lawyers to handle filings and other legal matters.

Clinton is under pressure to participate from her supporters, some of whom have struggled to accept the election results given her lead in the popular vote, which has grown to more than 2.3 million in the weeks after the Nov. 8 election.

“Now that a recount is underway, we believe we have an obligation to the more than 64 million Americans who cast ballots for Hillary Clinton to participate in ongoing proceedings to ensure that an accurate vote count will be reported,” Elias wrote.

Clinton’s lawyers filed motions with a Wisconsin judge on Tuesday looking to join Stein’s lawsuit demanding that Wisconsin officials recount ballots by hand. The state elections commission will formally began the recount on Thursday.

Stein’s organization has also filed for recounts in six of Pennsylvania’s largest counties and says it plans to file a petition Wednesday demanding a Michigan recount.

“It’s election law malpractice to not have your lawyers sitting around the table with Jill Stein’s lawyers,” said Adam Ambrogi, elections program director at the bipartisan Democracy Fund. “It is just due diligence.”

http://www.torontosun.com/2016.....-resources
RCO





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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

( this recount is really stuiped , it says here the Clinton campaign already investigated bizarre claims of hacking and outside influence and found no evidence of any , the stein campaign is detached from reality )



Clinton Files Motion to Join Recount Lawsuit in Wisconsin

by Rachel Stockman | 4:01 pm, November 29th, 2016



Hillary Clinton via Evan El-Amin/ShutterstockHillary Clinton‘s attorney filed a motion Tuesday seeking to join the lawsuit filed by Jill Stein in Wisconsin. According to Dane County court records, Hillary Clinton is now listed as an “intervenor” in the case. The lawsuit was originally filed on Monday by Stein after the Wisconsin Elections Commission declined to require that county leaders undergo the recount of votes by hand. Instead, the Elections Commission said that the recount would move forward but each county would decide themselves whether to proceed by hand or through an electronic method. So far, Donald Trump has not filed a similar motion to join the case.

“We must recount the votes so we can build trust in our election system,” Stein said in a statement.


Attorneys for Clinton also filed a memo supporting a hand recount because they said that the method will ensure the most accurate results, according to local reports.

Donald Trump won Wisconsin, beating Hillary Clinton by about 22,000 votes. The recount is expected to begin Thursday and each county will decide on their own to conduct the recount electronically or by hand unless Stein wins the lawsuit. Stein must also meet the deadline of paying the $3.5 million cost for the recount. She has indicated she has raised funds through an online donation campaign.

—> WATCH HEARING LIVE HERE

The motion to be part of the Stein lawsuit seems to be a bit of a change of tactics by the Clinton camp. Over the weekend, the Clinton campaign’s general counsel Marc Elias penned a blog post in which he explained how after the shocking Election Day loss, the Clinton campaign received hundreds of calls to “investigate claims that the election results were hacked and altered in a way to disadvantage Secretary Clinton.” He further explained the exhaustive measures the campaign undertook to investigate these allegations, before ultimately concluding they “had not uncovered any actionable evidence of hacking or outside attempts to alter the voting technology.” Instead, he said they planned to monitor the recount and participate in order to “ensure the process proceeds in a manner that is fair to all sides.”

A hearing is scheduled for Tuesday afternoon at 4:30 pm in Dane County. Stein is seeking declaratory relief from the judge. The recount must be certified by December 13, 2015 in order to guarantee that Wisconsin’s electoral college votes are counted.

LawNewz.com has reached out to Clinton’s attorney for more information on this case, and will update this story accordingly

http://lawnewz.com/high-profil.....wisconsin/
Bugs





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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This has to be a last desperate attempt ... if not to wrestle the presidency away from Trump, then to stigmatize his administration before it even takes office. As they did, with ultimate success, to 'W'.

But something else is happening. Now that the great national decision has been made -- at least in the public's mind -- support is flowing towards Trump. Most obviously, Rubio and Cruz are coming around. Trump is using the process of cabinet-building to establish conservative credentials, and he's doing it with success.

His choices are people with 'inside' experience, but who are reformers or respected critics. People are seeing that he isn't so bad, after all.

Things are coming together for Trump, and apart for the Democrats, who seem to be doubling down on their worst characteristics. I think they are responding to Trump by going to the left -- the Bernie left!
RCO





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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stein to make Michigan third state for presidential recount


David Eggert, The Associated Press
Published Wednesday, November 30, 2016 3:57AM EST
Last Updated Wednesday, November 30, 2016 1:47PM EST


LANSING, Mich. -- Green Party presidential nominee Jill Stein is expected to request a full hand recount of Michigan's presidential vote, making it the third state where she's asked for a second look at a race narrowly won by Republican Donald Trump.

Stein is expected to submit her request for a Michigan recount Wednesday afternoon. She has already requested recounts of the presidential votes in Pennsylvania and Wisconsin.

President-elect Trump defeated Democrat Hillary Clinton by 10,704 votes out of nearly 4.8 million ballots cast in Michigan, but Stein alleges that irregularities and the potential for hacking into scanning devices call the results into question.



Michigan's recount could start as early as Friday, though a challenge to the recount by Trump could delay it.

Trump's victory is highly unlikely to be reversed in any of the states, but Stein has said the recount will ensure the integrity of the election.

Republicans have said a Michigan recount would cost taxpayers far more than the $973,000 Stein must pay when filing her recount petition.

Meanwhile in Wisconsin, where Trump defeated Clinton by roughly 22,000 votes, Stein's campaign said Wednesday that it won't appeal a judge's ruling that Wisconsin's recount can be done without counting every ballot by hand.

Stein spokeswoman Margy Levinson said in an email that the campaign decided not to appeal the ruling due to the tight time constraints for completing the Wisconsin recount, which begins Thursday.


The majority of Wisconsin counties planned to do a hand recount of ballots cast even though the judge's ruling means they can choose to feed the ballots into tabulation machines to double check the counts.

Levinson said Stein's focus will be on verifying the vote on the ground and she encouraged counties to voluntarily conduct a hand recount.

Also Wednesday, the Wisconsin Republican Party filed a complaint with the Federal Elections Commission alleging that Stein's recount effort amounts to illegal co-ordination with Clinton.

The complaint contends that Clinton is the only person who could benefit from a recount and that she illegally helped Stein raise money for the recounts in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Michigan.

Spokeswomen for Stein and Clinton's campaigns did not immediately respond to requests for comment.

Trump defeated Clinton in Pennsylvania by about 71,000 votes, or about 1 percentage point.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/st.....dbdadebe84
Bugs





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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What happens if the are recounts still going on when the Electoral College meets? This fits the pattern of the 1876 election. In that case, recounts meant that the winner's edge was smaller than the outstanding electoral votes, so they started making deals.

If all of these Trump states are sidelined because they are still recounting the votes, Hillary would have the most active electoral votes.

You have to understand, this election is marking a serious loss to a nexus of powerful interests. Power is being passed to a true outsider in the sense of someone who has no stake in the previous system, and is threatening huge changes.

If Hillary is not the next 'President, how will donations to the Clinton Foundation be affected? What will people be paying for her speeches?

From hero to zero ...

You can't rule anything out.
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bill introduced to scrap The Electoral college ?

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