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RCO





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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trump almost certain to win Electoral College vote, but nothing's sure in 2016 elections


Published December 18, 2016
· FoxNews.com



The Electoral College is expected Monday to select Donald Trump as the next president of the United States, despite efforts to disrupt the 227-year-old process that so far appears to have resulted in just one openly rogue voter. Still, Democrats and Republicans on Sunday spoke with some uncertainty about the anticipated outcome.

“We expect everything to fall in line,” Reince Priebus, White House chief of staff in the incoming Trump administration, told “Fox News Sunday.”

In most presidential election years, the Electoral College vote would essentially be a formality after the popular vote in November.

But 2016 was not a typical election year, considering Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton won the popular vote with roughly 2.6 million more ballots than Trump but lost the Electoral College vote.

Trump got more Electoral College votes by essentially winning many of the smaller, less-populated states in the middle and southern parts of the country, along with the big coastal state of Florida and traditionally Democratic-leaning Pennsylvania and Wisconsin.

Trump and Clinton also split the six most populous states.

Trump needs 270 electoral votes Monday. And the state victories put him in line to get 306 of the 538 -- with each state getting one vote for each House and Senate member. The three remaining votes go to the District of Columbia.

Priebus, who still runs the Republican National Committee, which is trying to keep count of the apportioned or “pledged” votes, cited the only known and so-called “faithless” balloter, who lives in Texas and whose vote goes to Trump but plans to vote for another, yet-to-be-named Republican.

“But other than that, we're very confident that everything is going to be very smooth,” said Priebus, noting a massive petition drive to get electoral voters to cast ballots against Trump and the alleged harassment of some of the voters, particularly in Arizona, where Trump won 49 percent of the vote, compared to 45 percent for Clinton, which entitles him to all 11 electoral votes.

Arizona electorate Donald Graham told Fox News on Saturday that the 11 electorates have received hundreds of thousands of emails telling them not to vote for Trump and that he’s received information that some of other 10 have been followed or have received a death threat.

“It’s out of hand when you have such … a small group of people that is pushing so hard against millions if not hundreds of millions of people who still appreciate this whole system,” said Graham, chairman of the Arizona Republican Party. “The Electoral College is part of the Constitution.”

All swore to party officials that they will back Trump, even though they're not legally bound to do so, and plan to hold to that pledge.

There is no federal law on electoral votes. Some states bind their voters -- often state party officials -- to the popular vote. But the penalties for violations are minor, such as being disqualified from future balloting.

On Sunday, John Podesta, Clinton campaign chairman, suggested that 37 electoral voters bound to Trump could defect, which would be enough to create at least a tie and send the vote to the GOP-controlled House, where Trump would still likely win.

Podesta, as he has in recent days, pressed the argument on NBC’s “Meet the Press” that Russians hacking the emails of Democrats during the election led in part to Clinton’s loss.

He also made a last-minute argument that members of the Electoral College should have an intelligence briefing about the hackings before voting Monday.

“I assume that our electors are going to vote for Hillary Clinton,” Podesta said. “But the question is whether there are 37 Republican electors who think that either there are open questions [about the purported Russian hackings] or that Donald Trump … is really unfit to be president. … And I guess we will know that … tomorrow.”

The Associated Press tried to reach all 538 electors and was able to interview more than 330 of them. Many reported getting tens of thousands of emails, calls and letters asking them to vote against Trump.

But the canvass found overwhelming support for the system, and the nominee, among Republican electors. The AP found only one pledged to Trump who will refuse to vote for him but did not identify him as the voter in Texas.


http://www.foxnews.com/politic.....tions.html
RCO





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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GOP electors cite rural voice in Electoral College

Clinton’s higher total in the popular vote has led to calls for members of the Electoral College to not vote for Trump


The Associated Press

Sunday, December 18th, 2016



Rex Teter, a member of the Electoral College, poses at his home in Pasadena, Texas, Tuesday, Dec. 13, 2016. The sharp divisions left by last month‚'s presidential election have cast more attention than usual on the Electoral College. Teter, 59, a music teacher and preacher, received about 35,000 emails and 200 letters urging him not to support Trump. It took him several hours to delete them the day after Thanksgiving. A Marco Rubio supporter in the primaries, he is solidly for Trump. "Some have been very personal letters. Some threatening. One was very funny. They view President-elect Trump as a threat so it‚'s personal for them and I can empathize. But I'm not changing my vote as an elector." (AP Photo/David J. Phillip)




ATLANTA – As members of the Electoral College prepare to choose Donald Trump as the 45th president of the United States, some Republican electors say they are defending rural and small-town America against big-state liberalism and its support for national popular vote leader Hillary Clinton.

But the picture is more complicated.

“Our Founding Fathers established the Electoral College because those larger states, those larger areas, don’t necessarily need to be the ones that rule,” said Mary Sue McClurkin, a Republican elector from Alabama.

In Trump’s hometown of New York City, which Clinton won easily, Democratic elector Stuart Appelbaum countered that “we’re electing the president of the entire country,” so “the will of the entire country should be reflected in the results.”

It’s an expected argument given the unusual circumstances of the 2016 election. Clinton won some 2.6 million more votes than Trump in the nationwide tally. But Trump is line to get 306 of the 538 electoral votes under the state-by-state distribution of electors used to choose presidents since 1789.

Trump won rural areas, small towns and many small cities, including in states Clinton carried. Clinton won in the largest urban areas, including in Trump states.

Former Alaska Gov. Sean Parnell, a GOP elector, said Democrats’ strength on the coasts is enough to justify the Electoral College. “A presidential election decided each time by either California or New York,” he said, would leave voters in Alaska and many other places “with no voice” in presidential politics.

It’s worth noting that Trump didn’t just win small states and Clinton didn’t just take large ones.

Trump and Clinton split the six most populous states, each winning three, but Trump won seven of the top 10. Of the 10 smallest states plus the District of Columbia, Trump edged Clinton 6-5. Trump actually ran up his national advantage in midsize states.

But the dynamics highlight the delicate balance in a political structure that defines itself simultaneously as a democracy and a republic.

When the Constitution was written, some signers wanted direct election of the president. Others wanted state legislatures or Congress to choose the executive. The Electoral College was the end result: Each state got a slate of electors numbering the same as its delegation in Congress. Electors vote, with rare exception, for whichever candidate won the most votes in their state – effectively meaning the presidential election is 51 separate popular votes.

“It’s such an interesting compromise that gave us the Electoral College, unique to our American system,” said elections law expert Will Sellers from Alabama, who will serve as a Republican elector for the fourth time.

The system gives smaller states an advantage: The number of electors is based on each state’s number of U.S. representatives plus two, for each member of the U.S. Senate – itself a compromise favouring small states.

So California’s 55 electoral votes reflect 53 House members and two senators. For seven states, including Wyoming, Delaware and the Dakotas, those extra two electoral votes bring their total to the minimum of three.

Put another way, Alaska’s three electors will cast 0.56 per cent of the 538 electoral votes despite casting just 0.23 per cent of the national popular vote. But the advantage doesn’t just favour Republicans. Democratic Nevada makes up 1.12 per cent of the Electoral College but cast less than 1 of a 100 national ballots.

The Electoral College-popular vote split, along with Trump’s larger-than-life personality and lack of elective experience, has fueled a vocal, but almost certainly futile, movement to deny him the presidency by pressuring electors to vote against him when they convene Monday in the 50 states and Washington, D.C.

The Associated Press tried to reach all 538 electors and was able to interview more than 330 of them. Many reported getting tens of thousands of emails, calls and letters asking them to vote against Trump.

But the canvass found overwhelming support for the system, and the nominee, among Republican electors. The AP found only one pledged to Trump who will refuse to vote for him.

“I feel like the Electoral College gives a very fair perspective, so that those who are in the rural areas are able to have an equal voice with those who are in the urban areas,” said Oklahoma elector Lauree Elizabeth Marshall.

If anything, when Republican electors talk about large states, they actually mean New York and California. Clinton’s lead in California, the most populous state, is more than her national lead. She won New York by about 1.7 million votes.

McClurkin, the Alabama elector, says many of the letters and emails she’s received have come from those two states. “I’ve not gotten any from a Southern state,” she said.

But Democratic elector Eric Herde from Washington state argued that the country should scrap electoral votes in favour of the national ballot count. All Electoral College defences, whether citing population or the genius of the founders, amount to “states mattering more than people,” Herde said. “The argument that the person who got the most votes should win is still the better argument.”

http://ipolitics.ca/2016/12/18.....l-college/
RCO





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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Electoral College meets amid effort to deny Trump victory

AP survey of electors finds little appetite for college upset


Stephen OhlemacHer

Monday, December 19th, 2016



WASHINGTON – And you thought Election Day was in November.

Electors are set to gather in every state on Monday to formally elect Donald Trump president even as anti-Trump forces try one last time to deny him the White House.

Protests are planned for state capitals, but they are unlikely to persuade the Electoral College to dump Trump. An Associated Press survey of electors found very little appetite to vote for alternative candidates.

Republican electors say they have been deluged with emails, phone calls and letters urging them not to support Trump. Many of the emails are part of co-ordinated campaigns.

“The letters are actually quite sad,” said Lee Green, a Republican elector from North Carolina. “They are generally freaked out. They honestly believe the propaganda. They believe our nation is being taken over by a dark and malevolent force.”

Wirt A. Yerger Jr., a Republican elector in Mississippi, said, “I have gotten several thousand emails asking me not to vote for Trump. I threw them all away.”

A joint session of Congress is scheduled for Jan. 6 to certify the results of the Electoral College vote, with Vice-President Joe Biden presiding as president of the Senate. Once the result is certified, the winner — likely Trump — will be sworn in on Jan. 20.

The Electoral College was devised at the constitutional Convention in 1787. It was a compromise between those who wanted popular elections for president and those who wanted no public input.

The Electoral College has 538 members, with the number allocated to each state based on how many representatives it has in the House plus one for each senator. The District of Columbia gets three, despite the fact that the home to Congress has no vote in Congress.

To be elected president, the winner must get at least half plus one — or 270 electoral votes. Most states give all their electoral votes to whichever candidate wins that state’s popular vote. Maine and Nebraska award them by congressional district.

The AP tried to reach all of the electors and interviewed more than 330 of them, finding widespread aggravation among Democrats with the electoral process, but little expectation Trump would be derailed.

Some Democrats have argued that the Electoral College is undemocratic because it gives more weight to less populated states. That is how Hillary Clinton, who got more than 2.6 million more votes nationwide, lost the election to Trump. Some have also tried to dissuade Trump voters by arguing that he is unsuited to the job. Others cite the CIA’s assessment that Russia engaged in computer hacking to sway the election in favour of the Republican.

“When the founders of our country created (the Electoral College) 200-plus years ago, they didn’t have confidence in the average white man who had property, because that’s who got to vote,” said Shawn Terris, a Democratic elector from Ventura, California. “It just seems so undemocratic to me that people other than the voters get to choose who leads the country.”

But despite the national group therapy session being conducted by some Democrats, only one Republican elector told the AP that he will not vote for Trump.

There is no constitutional provision or federal law that requires electors to vote for the candidate who won their state. Some states require their electors to vote for the winning candidate, either by law or through signed pledges. But no elector has ever been prosecuted for failing to vote as pledged, according to the National Archives.

Those laws are rarely tested. More than 99 per cent of electors through U.S. history have voted for the candidate who won their state.

Electors are selected by state parties, and so are often insiders who can be trusted to vote for the party’s candidate. Many Republican electors said they feel duty-bound to honour their pledge to vote for the candidate who won their state, regardless of how they feel about Trump.

Still, some anti-Trump activists have been getting creative in trying to persuade electors to dump Trump.

In addition to thousands of emails, Republican elector Charlie Buckels of Louisiana said he received a FedEx package with a 50-page document that the sender said “had absolute proof that the Russians hacked the elections.”

“From the tenor of these emails, you would think these people are curled up in a corner in a fetal position with a thumb in their mouth,” Buckels said.

http://ipolitics.ca/2016/12/19.....p-victory/
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The popular vote argument is getting tired.

Aside from the fact that popular vote means nothing, has never ever meant anything, and doesn't appear likely to mean anything in the near future in the context of the US Presidential Electoral System, the argument is basically that California should have more say than the rest of the country.

Its impressive that Secretary Clinton won California by more than four million votes its why she got all of California Electoral votes, but simply said that is where her popular vote victory comes from.

Back out California and she lost the rest of the country by nearly two million votes.

The election wasn't lost in California,
It was lost in the "Blue Wall" of Ohio, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and Michigan and nearly Minnesota which was won by the Democrats with around the same margin of victory they nearly recounted Pennsylvania over when it went the other way.

The attacks from the left on the voters of those four states have been so visceral its going to be a challenge for anyone the Democrats nominate to try and walk some of that rhetoric back in 2020. At the end of the day, if the Democrats want the White House you are going to need them

As for the recent actions, asking the Electoral College to throw out the candidate because California and New York are unhappy is utterly ridiculously and that is exactly what we would be hearing if it had gone the other way and Secretary Clinton won the Electoral College but lost the popular vote solely on the difference in support in a large state like Texas alone.


Last edited by cosmostein on Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:04 pm; edited 2 times in total
Bugs





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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What amuses me about this is the usual 'cluckiness' of the Canadian talking heads.

Don't they realize the electoral college is a form of proportional representation?

They don't. Or if they do, they are keeping it to themselves. In this case, they are down on it because Donald Trump wins in the electoral college. So, it's the electoral college that's the source of the injustice in the USA, but it's the lack of one here that's creates the injustice here. The injustice, of course, is someone other than the left having a túrn at power.

Hillary got more than her vote plurality in California, where she got 4 million more votes than Trump. Her margin, nationally, was less than 2 million votes. So she could be the President of California.

What is truly disgusting is the Democrat-media complex is already constructing the narratives they plan to use to destroy Trump. Saturday Night Live has hired John Goodman to satirize the new Secretary of State. They already have cast their ''Trump'' -- Alec Baldwin.

The theme, at least to start, is how Trump is Putin's hand puppet.
RCO





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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cosmostein wrote:
The popular vote argument is getting tired.

Aside from the fact that popular vote means nothing, has never ever meant anything, and doesn't appear likely to mean anything in the near future in the context of the US Presidential Electoral System, the argument is basically that California should have more say than the rest of the country.

Its impressive that Secretary Clinton won California by more than four million votes its why she got all of California Electoral votes, but simply said that is where her popular vote victory comes from.

Back out California and she lost the rest of the country by nearly two million votes.

The election wasn't lost in California,
It was lost in the "Blue Wall" of Ohio, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and Michigan and nearly Minnesota which was won by the Democrats with around the same margin of victory they nearly recounted Pennsylvania over when it went the other way.

The attacks from the left on the voters of those four states have been so visceral its going to be a challenge for anyone the Democrats nominate to try and walk some of that rhetoric back in 2020. At the end of the day, if the Democrats want the White House you are going to need them

As for the recent actions, asking the Electoral College to throw out the candidate because California and New York are unhappy is utterly ridiculously and that is exactly what we would be hearing if it had gone the other way and Secretary Clinton won the Electoral College but lost the popular vote solely on the difference in support in a large state like Texas alone.


I've often wondered too , what would this push and argument look like and be viewed if it was coming from the other side ?

could you imagine the outrage from the mainstream media if people had sent 1000's of letters and even death threats to the electors who voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012 ?

how ridiculous would this campaigned be viewed by most americans ? the idea electors would vote against the results of there states election ? most of the states trump won weren't even that close with the exception of the 3 past democrat states in the mid west he won and Florida , a lot of the others were by fairly large margins and Clinton didn't even do that well in them

its a campaign of complete and utter nonsense
Toronto Centre





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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="RCO"]
I've often wondered too , what would this push and argument look like and be viewed if it was coming from the other side ?

[/quote]
We were very close to finding out.

And had Hillary stumped like she was supposed to, you would not have to wonder any longer.

Just....as....bad...
RCO





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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

( so far the only reports of electors not voting for there candidate are Clinton electors breaking away , 1 in Maine and 1 attempted in Minnesota , although it appears 4 were successful in Washington state )


Dec. 19, 2016, 1:11 p.m.

Four Washington state electors break away from Clinton



(Elaine Thompson / Associated Press)
(Elaine Thompson / Associated Press)


Four members of the electoral college in Washington state cast their votes for a candidate other than Democrat Hillary Clinton, who won the state's popular vote.

It's the first time in four decades the state's electors have broken from the popular vote for president. Washington's 12 electors met Monday afternoon in the state Capitol to complete the constitutional formality. Clinton got eight votes while other candidates got the remaining four.

Elector Bret Chiafalo, who earlier in the day said he planned to vote for Republican Ohio Gov. John Kasich, said that he ultimately changed his vote to former Secretary of State Colin Powell after conversations with other Washington electors. The exact breakdown of the other four votes wasn't immediately known, although at least one vote was cast for "Faith Spotted Eagle."

In last month's election, Republican Donald Trump won 306 electoral votes to Clinton's 232, though Clinton's tally will now be lower.

A candidate needs 270 electoral votes to win.

The last time an elector broke from the popular vote in Washington was in 1976, when Mike Padden, who is currently a Republican state senator, voted for Ronald Reagan instead of Gerald Ford, who had won the state.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/.....story.html
RCO





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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trump secures victory in Electoral College, as bid to flip electors flops


Published December 19, 2016
· FoxNews.com



Donald Trump won the Electoral College vote on Monday and secured his election as the 45th president of the United States, as the latest – and perhaps last – stop-Trump movement failed to gain traction in state capitals.

A fervent push by anti-Trump forces to persuade electors to defect had turned the normally mundane civic procedure into high drama.

But Trump easily surpassed the 270 electoral votes needed to win, as representatives tabbed to cast ballots in accordance with their states’ Nov. 8 decision mostly adhered to the election results. With several states still voting, Trump had 304 votes and Hillary Clinton had 169.

Texas put Trump over the top, despite two Republican electors casting protest votes.

Indiana Gov. Mike Pence afterward tweeted "congratulations" to his running mate while saying he was "honored & humbled" to be officially elected the next vice president.

Republican National Committee Co-Chair Sharon Day urged Trump’s detractors to stop fighting his election, now that his victory is affirmed.

“This historic election is now officially over and I look forward to President-elect Trump taking the oath of office in January,” she said in a statement. “For the good of the country, Democrats must stop their cynical attempts to undermine the legitimacy of this election, which Donald Trump won decisively in the Electoral College with more votes than any Republican since 1988.”

Elector antics were few and far between throughout the day, with most the disruptions occurring on the Democratic side. A Democratic elector in Maine tried to vote for Sen. Bernie Sanders, but switched to Clinton after it was ruled improper. Another who tried to vote for Sanders in Minnesota was replaced; a Colorado elector who tried to back Ohio Gov. John Kasich likewise was replaced. One of the biggest deviations was in Washington state, where three electors voted for Colin Powell and one voted for “Faith Spotted Eagle;” the remaining eight went to Clinton, the state’s winner.

It marked the first time in four decades the state's electors broke from the popular vote. Washington Secretary of State Kim Wyman vowed to work with the state attorney general and charge the four unfaithful electors with a violation of Washington state civil law. Such violations carry a fine up to $1,000.

With Trump’s win now secured, a joint session of Congress is scheduled for Jan. 6 to certify the results.

Trump’s clear Electoral College victory could serve to deter any further last-ditch efforts to effectively nullify his November win and prevent his inauguration, though the battle may shift next to his Cabinet picks.

Few expected the “faithless elector” push to imperil Trump’s victory on Monday.

Only one Republican elector – Texas’ Chris Suprun – publicly stated he would vote for an alternative candidate. (He backed Kasich, while another Texas elector used his ballot to vote for former congressman Ron Paul.) More than three dozen Republicans would have had to abandon Trump to complicate his path to the presidency.

But GOP electors still faced immense pressure -- with some even receiving threats -- from Trump foes in the run-up to Monday’s Electoral College vote. Those urging disorder in state capitals often cited Clinton’s popular-vote win, by roughly 2.6 million votes, over Trump in November.

Celebrities made public appeals to electors to use the arcane process to upend Trump’s victory, as some Democratic electors tried to persuade their Republican counterparts to defect. Reports that U.S. intelligence officials determined Russia interfered in the election to boost Trump – findings disputed by Trump himself – only fueled efforts to wield the Electoral College vote as a political circuit-breaker.

As electors met, thousands of protesters descended on state capitals Monday in one last push to convince Trump voters to change their minds.

In Arizona, dozens of protesters gathered outside the meeting site, marching around the Capitol mall and carrying signs that said, "Stop Trump." More than 200 demonstrators gathered at Pennsylvania's Capitol, chanting, "No treason, no Trump!"

Both states, and dozens of others, cast their electoral votes for Trump anyway.

In Mississippi, Gov. Phil Bryant dismissed attempts to sway Republican electors.

"This idea … that we want to change the electors’ minds who have been dedicated to Donald Trump very early in the process I think is just misguided,” he said.

If nothing else, the furor over Monday’s proceedings has served to re-acquaint Americans with a process that few pay attention to every four years.

The Electoral College was devised at the Constitutional Convention in 1787. It was a compromise between those who wanted popular elections for president and those who wanted no public input.

The Electoral College has 538 members, with the number allocated to each state based on how many representatives it has in the House plus one for each senator. The District of Columbia gets three, despite the fact that the home to Congress has no vote in Congress.

To be elected president, the winner must get at least half plus one -- or 270 electoral votes. Most states give all their electoral votes to whichever candidate wins that state's popular vote. Maine and Nebraska award them by congressional district.

After a joint session of Congress certifies the results on Jan. 6, the next president will be sworn in on Jan. 20.

Trump already is nearly done naming his Cabinet appointees, as he prepares for confirmation hearings and the inauguration ceremonies, in addition to his first 100 days agenda.

Despite the transition process being well underway, Republican electors said they were deluged with emails, phone calls and letters urging them not to support the billionaire businessman in the days and weeks leading up to Monday’s proceedings. Many of the emails were part of coordinated campaigns.

"The letters are actually quite sad," said Lee Green, a Republican elector from North Carolina. "They honestly believe the propaganda. They believe our nation is being taken over by a dark and malevolent force."

Wirt A. Yerger Jr., a Republican elector in Mississippi, said, "I have gotten several thousand emails asking me not to vote for Trump. I threw them all away."

Arizona elector Robert Graham told Fox News on Saturday that the state’s 11 electors received hundreds of thousands of emails telling them not to vote for Trump and that he’s received information that some of the other 10 have been followed or have received a death threat.

“It’s out of hand when you have such … a small group of people that is pushing so hard against millions if not hundreds of millions of people who still appreciate this whole system,” said Graham, chairman of the Arizona Republican Party. “The Electoral College is part of the Constitution.”

http://www.foxnews.com/politic.....tests.html
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toronto Centre wrote:
[
We were very close to finding out.

And had Hillary stumped like she was supposed to, you would not have to wonder any longer.

Just....as....bad...


Had she campaigned in Wisconsin rather than Georgia,
and spent more time in Michigan than Arkansas maybe.

Her campaign team seemingly got too preoccupied with a historic victory they forgot about the States they needed to hold in order to win.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cosmostein wrote:

Had she campaigned in Wisconsin rather than Georgia,
and spent more time in Michigan than Arkansas maybe.

Her campaign team seemingly got too preoccupied with a historic victory they forgot about the States they needed to hold in order to win.

No question.

Arrogance or whatever one wants to call it , they sure goofed on where to go.

Michigan, I dont think she even went there once.
RCO





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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toronto Centre wrote:
cosmostein wrote:

Had she campaigned in Wisconsin rather than Georgia,
and spent more time in Michigan than Arkansas maybe.

Her campaign team seemingly got too preoccupied with a historic victory they forgot about the States they needed to hold in order to win.

No question.

Arrogance or whatever one wants to call it , they sure goofed on where to go.

Michigan, I dont think she even went there once.



I don't know if she actually campaigned in Georgia , she had been to Michigan and Obama there late in the campaign as well

she did campaign a lot in Arizona which almost always votes republican so an odd place to campaign in ,although has a lot of hispanic voters and that might of been why she thought it might flip

it was Wisconsin that she never even set foot in , for some reason they never picked up on that state being closer and in play for trump , although on the real clear politics site that tracked polls , there hadn't been any polls all election that had trump ahead there , so the win surprised many
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the correction.

Michigan she went, Wisconsin she did not.
RCO





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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toronto Centre wrote:
Thanks for the correction.

Michigan she went, Wisconsin she did not.




she visited most of the swing states fairly aggressively , she was in North Carolina , Florida and Ohio often , all of which trump won

she had also been in New Hampshire a few times and she barely won it


she had also been to Iowa which is rate beside Wisconsin but never actually set foot in Wisconsin for unknown reasons

I read her campaign was using a secret computer system and it had said states like Pennsylvania would be very important but it never said that Wisconsin was going to be that close


I'm not sure if trump was in Wisconsin that much either , he definitely did visit the state at least a couple times , although I remember in the final week he cancelled a visit and instead stopped at the Minneapolis airport in Minnesota a state Clinton barely won
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RCO wrote:
Toronto Centre wrote:
cosmostein wrote:

Had she campaigned in Wisconsin rather than Georgia,
and spent more time in Michigan than Arkansas maybe.

Her campaign team seemingly got too preoccupied with a historic victory they forgot about the States they needed to hold in order to win.

No question.

Arrogance or whatever one wants to call it , they sure goofed on where to go.

Michigan, I dont think she even went there once.



I don't know if she actually campaigned in Georgia , she had been to Michigan and Obama there late in the campaign as well

she did campaign a lot in Arizona which almost always votes republican so an odd place to campaign in ,although has a lot of hispanic voters and that might of been why she thought it might flip

it was Wisconsin that she never even set foot in , for some reason they never picked up on that state being closer and in play for trump , although on the real clear politics site that tracked polls , there hadn't been any polls all election that had trump ahead there , so the win surprised many


I am not sure about that. How about telling people in Pennsylvania, with a chortle, that the miners won't have their jobs anymore because the Democrats are going to ban coal? What about her going nuts, and dismissing half the country as a "basket of deplorables". Those things had resonance.

The media is covering her legal problems as if it were all a plot organized by the Russians. But the Russians didn't install a private server and divert her emails to that server, knowing full well that it was illegal. She is/was part of a criminal conspiracy run out of the Clinton Foundation. You can't prove that! was their defense!

Another thing' being overlooked' is the contents of the Project Veritas project. In this, a gang who specializes in infiltering organizations, and surreptitiously filming villains at work. They interviewed, on film, the actual pros the Democrats pay to pull dirty tricks. When you put this together with Wikileaks, you see the DNC actually hired thuggish folks to go to Trump rallies, hang around outside waiting for one of the crazy right'-wingers to lose it at the sight of a Mexican flag. They were supposed to dress and carry signs they were Bernie supporters, and start fights. They did succeed in getting one rally cancelled.

It is just all so sleazy that a lot of Independents -- about a third of the American electorate -- couldn't ignore it. Who thinks that "You can't prove it!" gives someone comfort when they are concerned about the national security of the USA?

And then there was her master stroke -- the 12-year-old tapes where the 58 year old Trump is telling Bush Jr what women will do for the attention of someone with his own show. As the Democrats like to say: "They go low, we go lower." It was distasteful, and a reminder of the Clinton's own weary sexual adventures.

This is the politics we are moving into right now. Winning by smearing, bragging to the environmentalists about the industries that are being shut down, and the like. The Democrats are so powerful in the big cities that Trump supporters risked being assaulted if they were open in their choice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeOkybuCXX0

I think a lot of people decided, if they supported Trump, to hide the fact lest there be consequences.

Donald Trump made lots of campaign mistakes, particularly if you want to do normal campaigning, which involves getting the media to give you publicity by staying 'on message', etc. But Trump went around the media, and made them cover him. He used twitter and his rallies to great effect. He did several rallies a week for months, while Hillary did small groups in union halls, staged for the cameras to make it look like they were bigger rallies. He could have drawn 100,000 to 150,000 people a week to his rallies, and he did that for a year building up the the election. Building on that, he has 17+ million followers on twitter. And that doesn't even include the people that 17 million 'share' with.

It means he was in communication with a huge 'number of people, most of whom followed his campaign in great detail. Those people know a lot more about their current President-elect than they know about Obama, (who has whole years missing in his biography) or any earlier politician. Those people, at least, know he's not a racist for example.

Canadians, sadly, have a bunch of journalists who covered the American election by reading the NY Times and the Washington Post. You can't get an accurate picture of Trumps drawing power from those sources. Sorry, those reporters started out snickering at him, then they waited for him to implode. By the time they woke up, he was on the doorstep of winning the nomination. These people are still trying to figure out what happened.

I don't think there was that much chance that Hillary would win.
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The Trump Cabinet , who will be in it ?

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