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don muntean





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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 12:32 am    Post subject: Obama: Israel vs. The World...W/caricature Reply with quote

The picture is called "Divided Loyalty"



"The world looks at a conflict that has grinded on and on and on, and sees nothing but stalemate," Obama said. "The international community is tired of an endless process that never produces an outcome."

http://www.leaderpost.com/news.....story.html

What a disingenuous position!! There would have been peace long ago if the Palestinian 'cause' hadn't been hijacked by Islamists - from the onset.

Israelis have time and again bent over backwards in concessions to the Palestinians. Either he doesn't know the history of this conflict or - he's being intentionally disingenuous. Any thinking person knows it's likely the latter.

Sadly the track record with the Democrats - where Israel is concerned - is checkered with such 'reversals' and - there is a verifiable history of this fact.

That people cannot be forced into a peace is quite obvious!

The fact is the Palestinian collective [and the greater Arab world] have yet to accept that Israel 'really' has a right to exist and, that it was not founded illegitimately - that Israel should have a right to the city of Jerusalem - undivided.

"Obama endorsed the long-held Palestinian demand that a peace deal be conditioned on the withdrawal of Israel to borders that existed before the 1967 Arab-Israeli War."

So here is a good point right here. Why should they retreat those pre '67 borders?

Is it that Obama is in denial about HOW they gained this territory in '67?

Was Israel not attacked?

What other nation has had to relinquish territories - to still hostile entities - gained after an attack?

It's very disheartening to see leaders and political party's [and other activists] playing sides like this!

It must be mentioned that our Prime Minister and our federal government are not following with this course that Obama has purposed!

Yes there MUST be a Palestinian state and yes there MUST be a balanced settlement. That will NOT happen with this present course.

Even if they get some of the Palestinians to accept a peace accord, they won't get Hamas and Co. to accept it...they will not!

Not one Democrat - especially Jimmy Carter - has been able to negotiate them 'through' their set program of - 'driving the Jews into the sea'.

The fact is Carter has ENABLED a continued conflict by negotiating 'hudnas' or temporary 'rests from fighting'.



Of course it isn't Carter's 'exceptional' mediation skills that have brought them to these 'ceasefires' - it happens when a weakened Hamas wants to rebuild arsenals etc., so the fact remains - for all their talk - the Democrats have NOT helped this matter in the least!

Where did Jimmy get his funding for his 'Presidential Library' - we know...do some research if not: http://archive.newsmax.com/arc.....2225.shtml - Clinton also got 10 million from the Saudis for his presidential center... Hmmm!

Knowing all of that and knowing history ...there seems to be a disingenuous streak in this President.

''Appeasement" - there is a word that fits here - to some measure. What does it mean?

Here is an online definition:

"(Government, Politics & Diplomacy) the policy of acceding to the demands of a potentially hostile nation in the hope of maintaining peace."

So what we are seeing at times is a flip flop sort of attitude.

One cannot fully support both sides in this conflict! One cannot play sides one against the other.

The question then becomes - which side if any is he really on.

Examples:

"Consider his last appearance at the AIPAC conference, in June 2008 — the day after Obama secured the Democratic presidential nomination. Much of that speech earned applause, especially when he said “Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel, and it must remain undivided.”

But after an immediate outcry from Arab capitals, the Obama campaign spent the next 24 hours “clarifying” that he was not taking a position on how this “final status issue” should be resolved but merely saying Jerusalem must never again be “divided by barbed wire.”"

http://www.usnewsweekly.info/d.....-politico/

So what is that? One cannot play like this. I don't know why the Jewish Community voted for him. I really don't know why anyone voted for him.

It takes more than being a good podium speaker to be the leader of the free world?

I want to believe that he has the best interests of the Palestinians and the Israelis at heart when he is engaged in his international diplomacy. I just don't know that he does.



I think that the Israelis and the Palestinians have to reach a peace - without international interferences.

If the peace is to be real and sincere [permanent] - it has to come naturally - not at the end of a set of international ultimatums.

History clearly shows that one side of this conflict has long been ready for real peace and now - it's up to the other side to collectively 'accept' the other side and - move forward.

My prayers are that these embattled peoples very soon come to a mutual understanding and at that point ready themselves for real negotiations. They can do this and I think they will.

Call me a dreamer but I think that an internal peace can be achieved.

Here is another picture I made some six years ago...

"We share One Home":



Bottom left to right [in order of antiquity] - Hinduism as represented by the Sacred OM and then Judaism as represented by the Star of David stylized as the Burning Bush and then Christianity as represented by the Cross of Salvation and then Islam as represented by the Crescent and Star...

Here is a 54 second video I made three years ago about the issue:

http://youtu.be/4yV4dUYrnIA

[I must stress that caricatures are not always intended to ridicule or otherwise 'mock' the person who is the subject of one - as much as it is to juxtapose the 'very public' issues that they are juggling. Caricatures are meant to stimulate constructive discussions about the issues. That is why we find editorial cartoons in every major newspaper in the world! So I'm an unpaid internet based editorial caricaturist!][/youtube]


Last edited by don muntean on Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:39 pm; edited 6 times in total
Edmund Onward James





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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One day there will be a wise President who will tell the Arab Street that Israel is a democratic ally so hands off period. Muslims lost after trying so many times in different ways.

What we should be thankful for is that the right guys have won in WWI, WWII, Korea (Yes we won because they didn't take over the whole. But we could have done better same with Vietnam). The problem is that America preferred the covert wars rather than saying it like it is and doing the right thing like they once did. Forget about UN.

The American army from what I have read, with the technology, can take on several major forces, but the problem is collateral damage.

I like the fact that Netanyahu told Paddy Obummer (Now he says Ireland is an old home since his great, great grandfather was from there) go fly a kite in lightning storm. Something like that.
Toronto Centre





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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Edmund Onward James wrote:
One day there will be a wise President who will tell the Arab Street that Israel is a democratic ally so hands off period.

Isnt that implied by every President and leader of the West? That no country has attacked Israel (apart from the Palistinian debacle) is confirmation of that.
Quote:

What we should be thankful for is that the right guys have won in WWI, WWII, Korea (Yes we won because they didn't take over the whole. But we could have done better same with Vietnam).

WWI and WWII yes, but the Korean War isnt over ...............yet.

Quote:

The American army from what I have read, with the technology, can take on several major forces, but the problem is collateral damage.

The will to do so and the manpower to foillow up is what is missing. Fighting another war while engaged as they are would prove a bad decision.
don muntean





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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey! Looks like the socialists in Canada (still) agree with that less than fair position of the current U.S. President.

Here is a (policy resolution) quote from the National Post, regarding the NDP convention this weekend - regarding Israel:

"This resolution has been pushed by the NDP Socialist Caucus, and gleaned the support of at least a few riding associations, according to caucus chair Barry Weisleder. The resolution calls on the NDP to “campaign for an end to the rule of apartheid laws that make Israeli Arabs and Palestinians second- and third-class citizens under occupation.” It also asks the party to actively campaign for the “right of return for all refugees, an end to the Israeli settlements and Israeli occupation of Palestinian lands … and the removal of the apartheid wall, still under construction across the West Bank.” Another, separate Gaza-related resolution has circulated in search of support. Adam DeVita, president of the NDP’s Richmond Hill riding association, said he received a mass email soliciting support for sending “another mercy ship” to deliver humanitarian aid into Gaza. “That’s something that might come up, but I don’t know if it will make it to the convention floor,” he said. He could not recall the origin of the email."

http://news.nationalpost.com/2.....esolution/

So even if this resolution fails to make it to the 'floor' - we can be sure that this IS the position of the NDP. Again and again we see such a lack of regard for truth and history. It pains my heart to see these holier-than-thou meddlers continue to vilify Israel in this fashion.

There are NO 'apartheid laws' in Israel - Arab Israelis have the same rights as Jewish Israelis (rights are something quite foreign to the NDP) and there are no such divisions as 'first and second class' etc., in Israel (but there is in Saskatchewan!). More example of the NDP's anti-Israel position.

They support a so-called right of return "for all refugees" - so where are they going to return to? Are they returning to Israel to become Israelis? Pathetic!!

There are allegedly over 3.5 million so-called "refugees" (an artificial problem by the way) and who thinks that it's actually fair that Israel must integrate over 3 million hostile people into what will be an even smaller area than it has today?!

The NDP are a danger to the future of Canada!!!!!!
don muntean





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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 4:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"According to sources in Jerusalem, the Quartet, which consists of the United States, the United Nations, the European Union and Russia, will not invite the parties to a summit meeting but will instead send a delegation to the region to determine if the will exists and the time is ripe for renewed negotiations."

http://www.haaretz.com/print-e.....h-1.372574

What was that I stated in my posting?

I think that the Israelis and the Palestinians have to reach a peace - without international interferences.

If the peace is to be real and sincere [permanent] - it has to come naturally - not at the end of a set of international ultimatums.


So "the Quartet, which consists of the United States, the United Nations, the European Union and Russia, will not invite the parties to a summit meeting"

Well just see where that is going. Those four have no right to be acting in this capacity and doing so - with a position of assumed superiority - is a slap at common sense, the integrity of international affairs and - maybe even the existence of Israel.

I don't think any of 'the four' have Israel's best interests at heart and they appear to be ready to sacrifice Israel - to attempt to appease the likes of Hamas!! Not very intelligent.

None of 'the four' are being honest about why peace has failed to this point. None of them are ready to confront the wider Arab world on this chronic failing!

I know that people are still ready to say that Israel must do more, give more, bend more, but - them same people have neglected to pressure the Arab world as noted.

I hope Israel tells the "Quartet" to get lost with their machinations!


Last edited by don muntean on Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:07 am; edited 1 time in total
don muntean





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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OTTAWA - Canada will dismiss any United Nations recognition of Palestinian statehood this fall as a meaningless public relations move, Foreign Affairs Minister John Baird said Monday.

The Palestinian Authority has been waging a long campaign to win over a majority of support in the UN General Assembly during a vote in September— a vote that could put considerable pressure on Israel and its staunchest allies such as Canada and the United States.

"We think it's distinctly unhelpful to seek a public-relations declaration within the UN General Assembly," Baird said during a conference call with reporters. "Obviously, it would be without any meaning."

The foreign affairs minister said only a vote of the Security Council would finalize the matter, and that "statehood should be the product of a negotiated permanent peace with security for both the Palestinian and Israeli people."

Baird said he would be thrilled to welcome a new Palestinian state, but only after peaceful negotiations with Israel.


A former Canadian ambassador to the United Nations suggested the Palestinians have been left with little choice.

"I'd like to know what Mr. Baird thinks the alternative for the Palestinians is. Their land has been occupied longer than Eastern Europe was occupied by the Soviet Union," said Paul Heinbecker, the ex-career diplomat, who served as Canada's UN ambassador and foreign policy adviser to ex-prime minister Brian Mulroney.

"The Palestinians are doing what you would expect them to do, which is round up as much international support for their position as they can. The idea that this is somehow interrupting a peace process or negotiation — there is no peace process, there is no negotiation."

[...]

Heinbecker said he is surprised the current Conservative government is so unsympathetic of the plight of the Palestinians, citing the Israeli settlements in the West Bank and East Jerusalem.

"The Israelis contrary to international law have built very large settlements, over the objections, more or less, of the entire international community, including the government of Canada" he said.

"There is such a thing as international law and the Israelis are in violation of it, in fact. A fair-minded government would factor those kinds of considerations into its policy."

Baird's remarks were part of another announcement signalling a tougher stand with the United Nations by the new majority Conservative government.

[...]

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/baird.....46285.html

So what is the criticism of that 'ex-career diplomat, who served as Canada's UN ambassador and foreign policy adviser to ex-prime minister Brian Mulroney'?

"I'd like to know what Mr. Baird thinks the alternative for the Palestinians is. Their land has been occupied longer than Eastern Europe was occupied by the Soviet Union,"

I really cannot fathom why people are ignoring the selective admonishments against Israel in the public discussion of this conflict. It's all about how Israel has failed peace through the years? Not a word from him about why peace has actually failed?

Of course we see that tired old propaganda: "Their land has been occupied longer..." - the Palestinian's 'land' is not under any occupation. How can any western diplomat say that in good faith?

I wonder why this description is becoming more common now. I know people don't want to hear it but there is a latent anti-semitism at work here in the international community. Where people would not feel comfortable consciously expressing anti-Semitic sentiments - it has taken a new form. Unfair castigation of Israel.

With reference to an occupation - a reference to the pre-67 borders?

Is it an "occupation" in like say Jerusalem? Is that the meaning of this?

Palestinians have had autonomy in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip for some time now and - what has been the result of this autonomy? Has the focus been on State building or on continued conflict?

Our career-diplomat states:

"The Palestinians are doing what you would expect them to do, which is round up as much international support for their position as they can. The idea that this is somehow interrupting a peace process or negotiation — there is no peace process, there is no negotiation."

Whether we're talking about Hamas or Fatah - the cause for Palestinian Statehood has been long hijacked - with another plan: to bring the end of Israel one way or another. If they cannot do it through terror then do it through political machinations.

This unilateral declaration of Statehood is ill-justified on the basis that 'negotiations' have not brought a state for the Palestinians. It's ill-justified on this 'occupation' propaganda as well.

I think that the Palestinian people have to ask themselves if they trust the course they are on! So far their leaders have only squandered every opportunity at real peace.

It isn't only in the international media! No. The Palestinian youth are brainwashed from birth to never accept Israel and to see Israel as the 'occupier'.

Their media and education system are carefully crafted to this end.

So is there an occupation? If we're talking about the pre-67 lines - then no there isn't - there was a war and the Israelis in legitimate defense gained some territory.

Since the founding of the state of Israel there has been nothing but attack after attack from the Arab world.

They haven't always responded in ways that are justifiable. That is a given. There's no evidence that the peace process has ever been sabotaged by Israel. There's no evidence that Israel eschews peace.

It has been the leaders of the Palestinians that have derailed peace time and again and it is hurting the Palestinian people! The majority of Palestinians are under 20! This conflict cultivated by the hate of internal and external propagandists - is all they know! Of course, their leaders are by majority NOT under 20!

As our Foreign Affairs Minister noted - there will be a State for the Palestinian People - through negotiated settlement - with Israel.

Otherwise the "Quartet" are going to usurp everything and - no one will be satisfied!

If there is a unilateral declaration of Statehood then that closes the door on negotiated land swaps - right? The borders are thus set - as they are, with the Gaza Strip and the West Bank?

Of course there is still rivalry with Hamas and Fatah - so will this new State be a unification of the two territories and what's the system of government and who will form that government?

Clearly the Palestinian >people< have not thought this through.

It cannot be that their rogue leaders think that a declaration of statehood would somehow legitimize their terror campaigns against Israel?

Seeing the tendencies of some of our western diplomats - like this noted fellow - I think that might indeed be their plan!

The Palestinian people have to know that right now they are being pulled in many directions by many hands and - they're not Israeli hands.

At the hands of the "Quartet" and their corrupt leaders (and Iran) the Palestinians are at risk of losing the future. What average 20 year old doesn't want a real future?

Hate motivated political aggression in the guise of 'cultural strife' is a very demoniac program! The Palestinians deserve better than that!


Last edited by don muntean on Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:17 am; edited 5 times in total
don muntean





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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The facts about this settlement issue:

• Prime Minister Netanyahu: Direct negotiations needed to resolve conflict

• Jerusalem neighborhood, Ramat Shlomo, not included in Israel’s building moratorium

• Construction in Ramat Shlomo located in Jerusalem Jewish neighborhood of 20,000 residents; ‘consensus’ area not linked to future peace agreement

On Tuesday (March 9), Israel’s interior ministry announced that 1,600 new housing units would be constructed in Ramat Shlomo, a northern Jerusalem neighborhood falling within the city’s municipal boundaries and annexed by Israel following the 1967 defensive Six-Day War.[1] The timing of the announcement coincided with U.S. Vice President Joe Biden’s visit to the region as part of a U.S. attempt to push proximity talks between Israel and the Palestinians.[2]

During a press conference with Biden March 9, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyhau said, “I… appreciate the Administration’s effort to advance peace in the region. I know that this has been difficult and has required a great deal of patience, but I’m pleased that these efforts are beginning to bear fruit and we have to be persistent and purposeful in making sure that we get to those direct negotiations that will enable us to resolve this conflict.”[3]

Israeli Interior Minister Eli Yishai apologized for the timing of the announcement. “The approval is a purely technical matter and we have no intention of insulting or seeking a confrontation with the U.S. vice president,” said Yishai, adding, “I apologize for the distress this matter caused.”[4] An interior ministry spokeswoman added that the new construction project had been in the planning stages for the past three years and that the timing was coincidental.[5]

In 2008, 1,300 new units were approved for construction in Ramat Shlomo.[6]

In November 2009, Netanyahu announced there would be a construction freeze in West Bank communities. It was explicitly stated at the time that the freeze would not apply to Jewish neighborhoods in Jerusalem that lie beyond the pre-1967 borders.[7]

The Obama administration and Western diplomats had agreed to Israel’s request to remove Jerusalem from the settlement freeze.[8]

“In order to help move the peace process forward the current government of Israel, under Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, has adopted unprecedented limitations on growth in the settlements. But we make a clear distinction between the West Bank and Jerusalem. Jerusalem is our capital and will remain as such,” Netanyahu’s international media advisor, Mark Regev, told The Israel Project.[9]

Ramat Shlomo, built in 1995, is a neighborhood of 20,000 residents.[10] Knesset (Israeli Parliament) Speaker Reuven Rivlin said Ramat Shlomo is just one of several Jerusalem neighborhoods that every Israeli government has considered an integral part of Jerusalem. “No government has even considered not building in them,” Rivlin said.[11]

Said Jerusalem Mayor Nir Barkat on Nov. 17, 2009, "Israeli law does not discriminate between Jews, Muslims, and Christians or between eastern and western Jerusalem. The demand to halt construction by religion is not legal in the United States or in any other free place in the world. I do not presume that any government would demand to freeze construction in the United States based on race, religion or gender and the attempt to demand it from Jerusalem is a double standard and inconceivable."[12]

The Israeli government has offered land swaps in the past in return for land on which Jewish communities and Jerusalem neighborhoods are constructed. In December 2008, then-Prime Minister Ehud Olmert made a comprehensive peace offer to Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas that included a land swap from Israeli territory to the Palestinians that would have equaled 100 percent of the pre-1967 land area of the West Bank.[13]

Like his predecessor Olmert, Netanyahu has called for a two-state solution to the Israel-Palestinian conflict[14] and has urged the Palestinians to immediately resume peace talks without preconditions.[15]

Footnotes:

[1] Hoffman, Gil, “'R. Shlomo plan timing regrettable',” The Jerusalem Post, March 10, 2010, http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Ar.....id=170637; McCarthy, Rory, “Israel sorry for announcing homes plan during Biden visit,” The Guardian, March 10, 2010, http://www.guardian.co.uk/worl.....en-apology

[2] Laub, Karin, “Israel apologizes for embarrassing Biden,” AP, March 10, 2010, http://www.google.com/hostedne.....gD9EBO9VG0

[3] “Statements of PM Netanyahu and Vice President Joe Biden,” Prime Minister’s Office, March 9, 2010, http://www.pmo.gov.il/PMOEng/C.....090310.htm

[4] Ravid, Barak; Issacharoff, Avi; Hasson, Nir; Pfeffer, Anschel, “Yishai: Sorry for distress over East Jerusalem plan,” Haaretz, March 10, 2010, http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1155460.html

[5] Hoffman, Gil, “'R. Shlomo plan timing regrettable',” The Jerusalem Post, March 10, 2010, http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Ar.....id=170637; Ravid, Barak; Issacharoff, Avi; Hasson, Nir; Pfeffer, Anschel, “Yishai: Sorry for distress over East Jerusalem plan,” Haaretz, March 10, 2010, http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1155460.html

[6] “Israel to build new homes on occupied West Bank,” Reuters, June 14, 2008, http://uk.reuters.com/article/.....1120080614

[7] Ravid, Barak, “Netanyahu declares 10-month settlement freeze 'to restart peace talks',” Haaretz, Aug. 12, 2009, http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1130636.html

[8]Ravid, Barak, “U.S. agrees to keep E. Jerusalem out of settlement freeze,” Haaretz, Aug. 28, 2009, http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1110387.html

[9] Communicated statement by Mark Regev to The Israel Project.

[10] Ravid, Barak; Issacharoff, Avi; Hasson, Nir; Pfeffer, Anschel, “Visiting Biden slams E. J'lem housing plan,” Haaretz, March 10, 2010, http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1155373.html

[11] Hoffman, Gil, “'R. Shlomo plan timing regrettable',” The Jerusalem Post, March 10, 2010, http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=170637

[12] “Jerusalem Mayor Barkat, strongly objects to the American demand to halt construction in Jerusalem,” Israel Government Press Office, Nov. 17, 2009

[13] Khoury, Jack, “Abbas: Olmert offered PA land equaling 100% of West Bank,” Haaretz, Dec. 12, 2009, http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1136351.html

[14] “Prime Minister's Foreign Policy Speech at the Begin-Sadat Center at Bar-Ilan University,” The Israel Project, June 14, 2009, http://www.theisraelproject.or.....ct=7128353

[15] Meranda, Amnon, “Netanyahu: Our leaders won't be prosecuted in Hague,” YnetNews, Oct. 12, 2009, http://www.ynetnews.com/articl.....63,00.html

http://www.theisraelproject.or.....ontent_id={1999FE66-971D-41B3-BA48-831380127BF2}&notoc=1
don muntean





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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Palestinian PM: Declaration of statehood just a formality

Palestinian Prime Minister Salam Fayyad said Sunday that the declaration of a Palestinian state would be a mere formality once the institutions of a Palestinian state are created.

Speaking at a press conference in Ramallah organized by the Saban Forum, Fayyad said it is important to create institutions that are functioning, committed to the Palestinian people and free of corruption.

Palestinian officials have they are preparing to ask the United Nations to endorse an independent state without Israel's consent because they are losing hope they can achieve their aspirations through peace talks. The announcement drew a harsh rebuke from Israeli officials.

Fayyad did not comment on the independence plan.

Fayyad spoke at a news conference with U.S. Senator Joseph Lieberman, who
praised Fayyad's efforts to develop the economy.

"I know some people are concerned that this is unilateral," Fayyad said, referring to his development plan. "But it seems to me that it is unilateral in a healthy sense of self-development."

Fayyad said building national institutions is an important step in preparation for the establishment of a Palestinian state within the 1967 borders with Jerusalem as its capital.

Read the rest at:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1128255.html

"a Palestinian state within the 1967 borders with Jerusalem as its capital"

So there it is - whether it's a negotiated state or this threat of a unilateral move to create one...the Palestinians [backed by the other Arab nations] intend to have "Jerusalem as its capital" one way or another.

They would have had a state decades ago had the Palestinians actually wanted one more - or even as much as - the demise of the State of Israel.

How long before all western leaders stop making excuses for these irregular fighters - terrorists - turned politicians and - actually advocate on behalf of the Palestinian peoples themselves?
don muntean





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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So it appears that Abbas is proceeding with his nonsense plan this week in the U.N. of a unilateral declaration of statehood - what a foolish move. Here is what Abbas really appears like:



So let them declare statehood - then there is NO need for peace negotiations.

Borders are set as is - no 'right of return' no shared Jerusalem - with a declaration of statehood Abbas is rescinding all claim to the noted points.

So [it goes without saying] no longer is there a refugee problem - if they declare statehood.

The 'thinking' world knows that Israel has offered them a sweet deal - twice!

AS sad as it is to say it - the Palestinian's don't appear to ever want peace with Israel - to be once and for all confirmed - with a unilateral declaration of statehood.


Last edited by don muntean on Tue Jan 21, 2014 5:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
don muntean





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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Palestinians gear up for their own Arab Spring"

http://gulfnews.com/news/regio.....g-1.886839

How absurd is that? The so-called "Arab Spring" [more like ice age] was supposed to be a revolt against 'corrupt' leaders - so does this mean that Palestinians are going to try and depose their despotic leaders? LOL!

No that's not it - they plan to target Israelis with more terror and political machinations under the soiled umbrella of this so-called [and now romanticized?] idea of freedom spreading throughout the middle east. Pay attention to Egypt - 'the Spring' has turned cold there.

I think these uprisings are factually being orchestrated by Islamists.
don muntean





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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

don muntean wrote:
So it appears that Abbas is proceeding with his nonsense plan this week in the U.N. of a unilateral declaration of statehood - what a foolish move. Here is what Abbas really appears like:



So let them declare statehood - then there is NO need for peace negotiations.

Borders are set as is - no 'right of return' no shared Jerusalem - with a declaration of statehood Abbas is rescinding all claim to the noted points.

So [it goes without saying] no longer is there a refugee problem - if they declare statehood.

The 'thinking' world knows that Israel has offered them a sweet deal - twice!

AS sad as it is to say it - the Palestinian's don't appear to ever want peace with Israel - to be once and for all confirmed - with a unilateral declaration of statehood.


Palestinian President hails new era of ‘partnership’ with Hamas

"The Hamas-Fatah rapprochement has been criticized by Israel, with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Thursday saying he hoped Abbas, widely known at home as Abu Mazen, “would stop the reconciliation process with Hamas.”

“The closer Abu Mazen gets to Hamas, the further he moves away from peace,” Netanyahu spokesman Mark Regev told AFP."

http://news.nationalpost.com/2.....ith-hamas/

So perhaps the above editorial caricature I made of Abbas a few years ago - isn't so far off after all...


Last edited by don muntean on Tue Jan 21, 2014 5:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So of course everyone must be seeing this one - naturally any thinking person saw this coming:

Liberal voices isolated after Egypt votes for Islamists

[...]

What soon emerged in the English-language press was a sanitized and inaccurate version of who actually took to the streets earlier this year, and why.

[...]

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.....976471.cms

So there it is - there's no 'real' freedom movement behind any of these uprisings - Islamists are behind the whole thing - sure 'liberals' are credited with conceiving these protests but, that is a smoke screen - in my opinion. I feel sorry for the Egyptian people who didn't vote that way...

The same questions arise with the "occupy movement" - what groups are really behind that?
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found this old posting I did [on another site] way back in 2006 - this posting is copied with the post that I was replying to - I think the points made are still as relevant today as they were five years ago:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Yogesh

The question you have posed is not an easy one and I do not have an answer for it.
The only way I can try to answer it is by asking:

How do you control any persons actions which are manifestation of their desires born out of ideologies of hatred??

Do You think that by putting a gun to their heads will change the way they think??

We cannot even control our own minds let alone control others minds and desires.

The only way is to first get your own house in order before trying to go out there and try to fix the world.

It is natural for people perusing spiritual practice to feel empathy for their fellow humans.

My only answer is to first rescue yourself before trying to rescue another.

This may sound selfish but remember you are held responsible for your own actions.

The best way is to mould your life in Krsna Consciousness (always conscious of Krsna/God) so that it can manifest into positive actions which can impact positively on not only your life but that of others around you.

You may say that it sounds like ostrich mentality or an immature bhakta.

But I live by the following words:-

Raghe Krsna Mare Kaun??
Mare Krsna Raghe Kaun??

Translation:
If Krsna wants to protect me who can kill me?
If Krsna wants to kill me who can protect me??


The points you make are quite valid - however - it isn't so simple as 'get your house in order first' - because the irregular fighters are not going to wait for that - they most certainly are looking for any inattention to them and their program.

Of course - in order to fight these irregular fighters the west has to do so - as agents of justice and - not as counter-points.

It may be a subtle difference but - the line is there nonetheless.

Without doubt - the message that Krishna gives to Arjuna on the Battlefield could be best imbibed by our own western leaders right now as they - like Arjuna - are confronted with many nasty contradictions and - many other conflicts and confusions within this fight - as it relates to duty and responsibility.

I could say that the islamist irregular fighters could also read and learn Gita but - we know that shall not happen. For them 'vedic' is 'infidel'.

Prabhupada says:

...This age of Kali (quarrel) will certainly be full of all activities of Kali, but this does not mean that the leaders of society, the executive heads, the learned and intelligent men, or above all the devotees of the Lord should sit down tightly and become callous to the reactions of the age of Kali. In the rainy season certainly there will be profuse rainfalls, but that does not mean that men should not take means to protect themselves from the rains. It is the duty of the executive heads of state and others to take all necessary actions against the activities of Kali or the persons influenced by the age of Kali... [SB 1.17.28, purport]

Would you not say that the islamic revolution has come to exemplify the activities of Kali and the irregular fighters who forward it are "persons influenced by the age of Kali" - also please consider this:

Thus the demons, being fond of disastrous activities, took Hiranyakasipu’s instructions on their heads with great respect and offered him obeisances. According to his directions, they engaged in envious activities directed against all living beings. [SB 7.2.13]

So Hiranyakasipu’s instructions were delivered to 'terrorists' in that they were 'fond of disastrous activities' and with the encouragement of a demonic leader they readily 'engaged in envious activities directed against all living beings' - in the same way that the islamist irregular fighters direct terror - against citizens and - most especially - those who they dislike or - who otherwise oppose them and their irregular program.

These are real issues in our world.

Of course I don't want a global nightmare war - who does? Not our leaders - however the islamists - they want such a war.

If they are left to their own devices they shall machinate it into reality.

In SB 1.17.28 in the purport Prabhupada is very clear:

This age of Kali will certainly be full of all activities of Kali, but this does not mean that the leaders of society, the executive heads, the learned and intelligent men, or above all the devotees of the Lord should sit down tightly and become callous to the reactions of the age of Kali - so there it is.

There IS an emergency in our world - our way of life has ruined this earth [in every nation] and yes - there is a lot of karma everywhere in the world but - that is not any excuse to be callous to these issues.

If the islamists wake-up out of their horrific delusions and renounce their program and embrace all of God's followers and in that - respect all of God's faiths - then - we might have a hope in this hell - otherwise - if they continue with this obnoxiously adversarial position - what can the world do? Yet - the world cannot sit down and hope that they'll "get their house in order" on the plea that it might happen...if this is going to change - the ball is in the islamist's court...in that respect.

For example - the president of Iran and his intense anti-semitic position - who but him can change that position?

Yes you are correct in your understandings but - I think that you need to broaden your thinking - yes we must encourage everyone to change for the good - and yet we have to understand that despite all efforts - war can still take place.

If we are to avert this next global war [and end global terrorism] and save the earth from a battle that would peril the planet then we are going to have to look to God and what He has told us in so many places to understand.

Myself I think that God shall save the day - He shall change the hearts of people and they won't be able to get to the point of enmity that we are seeing thus far in kali yuga.

This kali yuga must be understood and we do not see the practical reality that it IS the winter of time and - if we don't prepare and plan for 'storms' then - what do we do when they come?

We can only affect so much - in so many ways and - it is nice that now with the internet we can reach out and connect with anyone on these message boards - who knows who may read these postings - right?

So we can see an opportunity and we should advance the non sectarian message of Srila Prabhupada.

Just see the purport to the above quoted Bhagavatam text 7.2.13; The discovery of nuclear energy has been disastrous to people in general because demons all over the world are manufacturing nuclear weapons. The word kadana-priyah is very significant in this regard. The demoniac persons who want to kill the Vedic culture are extremely envious of the feeble citizens, and they act in such a way that ultimately their discoveries will be inauspicious for everyone... - there it is - he wrote that a long time ago and yet - with Iran and North Korea - that is the very issue isn't it.

Next time you hear of a suicide bombing or rocket attack from gaza [should be called homicide bombings actually] think of this - aren't they who do these things:

demoniac persons...extremely envious of feeble citizens...being fond of disastrous activities they take instructions from bad leaders [of the likes of groups like al-Qaida hezbollah hamass islamic jihad etc., from the likes of national leaders such as the current presidents of Iran and Syria] - they take these envious instructions - on their heads - with great respect and offer these bad leaders obeisances. According to these bad leaders directions, they then engage in envious activities directed against all living beings or the otherwise feeble citizens.

It is a complex issue indeed. We can hope that if we make an effort to educate people - God shall help the right people see it.

Is there hope for the irregular fighters? That is their choice.

Islam is a fast growing faith and the noted Islamists are using every dirty tactic to capture those who come to have faith in that path - it is imperative that those who are moderate muslims commence an education program of their own - directed at their own.

It is imperative for moderate muslims to form even stronger ties with non-muslims in the religious world. To openly declare that they love that - "God is One and so are those who love God - no matter the Name He is called by"!

If there shall ever be hope - in particular - the long seated irrational hostility and enmity - toward Christians Hindus and Jews - must be repudiated - must become healed - can it happen?


Last edited by don muntean on Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:22 am; edited 3 times in total
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

don muntean wrote:
OTTAWA - Canada will dismiss any United Nations recognition of Palestinian statehood this fall as a meaningless public relations move, Foreign Affairs Minister John Baird said Monday.

The Palestinian Authority has been waging a long campaign to win over a majority of support in the UN General Assembly during a vote in September— a vote that could put considerable pressure on Israel and its staunchest allies such as Canada and the United States.

"We think it's distinctly unhelpful to seek a public-relations declaration within the UN General Assembly," Baird said during a conference call with reporters. "Obviously, it would be without any meaning."

The foreign affairs minister said only a vote of the Security Council would finalize the matter, and that "statehood should be the product of a negotiated permanent peace with security for both the Palestinian and Israeli people."

Baird said he would be thrilled to welcome a new Palestinian state, but only after peaceful negotiations with Israel.


A former Canadian ambassador to the United Nations suggested the Palestinians have been left with little choice.

"I'd like to know what Mr. Baird thinks the alternative for the Palestinians is. Their land has been occupied longer than Eastern Europe was occupied by the Soviet Union," said Paul Heinbecker, the ex-career diplomat, who served as Canada's UN ambassador and foreign policy adviser to ex-prime minister Brian Mulroney.

"The Palestinians are doing what you would expect them to do, which is round up as much international support for their position as they can. The idea that this is somehow interrupting a peace process or negotiation — there is no peace process, there is no negotiation."

[...]

Heinbecker said he is surprised the current Conservative government is so unsympathetic of the plight of the Palestinians, citing the Israeli settlements in the West Bank and East Jerusalem.

"The Israelis contrary to international law have built very large settlements, over the objections, more or less, of the entire international community, including the government of Canada" he said.

"There is such a thing as international law and the Israelis are in violation of it, in fact. A fair-minded government would factor those kinds of considerations into its policy."

Baird's remarks were part of another announcement signalling a tougher stand with the United Nations by the new majority Conservative government.

[...]

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/baird.....46285.html

So what is the criticism of that 'ex-career diplomat, who served as Canada's UN ambassador and foreign policy adviser to ex-prime minister Brian Mulroney'?

"I'd like to know what Mr. Baird thinks the alternative for the Palestinians is. Their land has been occupied longer than Eastern Europe was occupied by the Soviet Union,"

I really cannot fathom why people are ignoring the selective admonishments against Israel in the public discussion of this conflict. It's all about how Israel has failed peace through the years? Not a word from him about why peace has actually failed?

Of course we see that tired old propaganda: "Their land has been occupied longer..." - the Palestinian's 'land' is not under any occupation. How can any western diplomat say that in good faith?

I wonder why this description is becoming more common now. I know people don't want to hear it but there is a latent anti-semitism at work here in the international community. Where people would not feel comfortable consciously expressing anti-Semitic sentiments - it has taken a new form. Unfair castigation of Israel.

With reference to an occupation - a reference to the pre-67 borders?

Is it an "occupation" in like say Jerusalem? Is that the meaning of this?

Palestinians have had autonomy in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip for some time now and - what has been the result of this autonomy? Has the focus been on State building or on continued conflict?

Our career-diplomat states:

"The Palestinians are doing what you would expect them to do, which is round up as much international support for their position as they can. The idea that this is somehow interrupting a peace process or negotiation — there is no peace process, there is no negotiation."

Whether we're talking about Hamas or Fatah - the cause for Palestinian Statehood has been long hijacked - with another plan: to bring the end of Israel one way or another. If they cannot do it through terror then do it through political machinations.

This unilateral declaration of Statehood is ill-justified on the basis that 'negotiations' have not brought a state for the Palestinians. It's ill-justified on this 'occupation' propaganda as well.

I think that the Palestinian people have to ask themselves if they trust the course they are on! So far their leaders have only squandered every opportunity at real peace.

It isn't only in the international media! No. The Palestinian youth are brainwashed from birth to never accept Israel and to see Israel as the 'occupier'.

Their media and education system are carefully crafted to this end.

So is there an occupation? If we're talking about the pre-67 lines - then no there isn't - there was a war and the Israelis in legitimate defense gained some territory.

Since the founding of the state of Israel there has been nothing but attack after attack from the Arab world.

They haven't always responded in ways that are justifiable. That is a given. There's no evidence that the peace process has ever been sabotaged by Israel. There's no evidence that Israel eschews peace.

It has been the leaders of the Palestinians that have derailed peace time and again and it is hurting the Palestinian people! The majority of Palestinians are under 20! This conflict cultivated by the hate of internal and external propagandists - is all they know! Of course, their leaders are by majority NOT under 20!

As our Foreign Affairs Minister noted - there will be a State for the Palestinian People - through negotiated settlement - with Israel.

Otherwise the "Quartet" are going to usurp everything and - no one will be satisfied!

If there is a unilateral declaration of Statehood then that closes the door on negotiated land swaps - right? The borders are thus set - as they are, with the Gaza Strip and the West Bank?

Of course there is still rivalry with Hamas and Fatah - so will this new State be a unification of the two territories and what's the system of government and who will form that government?

Clearly the Palestinian >people< have not thought this through.

It cannot be that their rogue leaders think that a declaration of statehood would somehow legitimize their terror campaigns against Israel?

Seeing the tendencies of some of our western diplomats - like this noted fellow - I think that might indeed be their plan!

The Palestinian people have to know that right now they are being pulled in many directions by many hands and - they're not Israeli hands.

At the hands of the "Quartet" and their corrupt leaders (and Iran) the Palestinians are at risk of losing the future. What average 20 year old doesn't want a real future?

Hate motivated political aggression in the guise of 'cultural strife' is a very demoniac program! The Palestinians deserve better than that!


Against the backdrop of the belligerent declarations by the IDF chief of staff, who is threatening that "Israel will have no choice other than another broad operation in Gaza," it's hard to understand the silence that followed Khaled Meshal's historic statements. The Hamas leader declared this week that his movement is switching over from the armed struggle to a popular struggle, and that its agreement with Fatah includes the establishment of a Palestinian state within the 1967 borders with East Jerusalem as its capital, without renouncing the right of return.

A popular uprising, according to Meshal, means demonstrations and civil revolt without the use of arms. This doesn't include recognition of Israel or abandonment of the option of an armed struggle, which remains "a right of the Palestinian people" - but after the establishment of a state.

According to Meshal, a rational reading of reality, including the situation in Syria and the achievements of the popular revolutions, led the organization to reassess its path, to sign the reconciliation deal with Fatah and change the struggle's strategy. These are remarkable statements that highlight the extent that political events can bring about strategic turnarounds, even ideological ones.

But instead of encouraging Hamas' new direction, expressing the hope that it will turn into a legitimate political party and supporting the establishment of a Palestinian unity government, Israel offered its routine response - silence and apathy toward the declarations and a threat of a military operation.

Thus, as the Palestinian leadership reads the regional political map correctly and plans for the next stage in its efforts to achieve international recognition for a Palestinian state, Israel persists with its timeworn concepts that have led to the rejection of every diplomatic move.

In the very near future, Palestine will be able to show the world a unified government that controls both parts of Palestine and is based on an agreed-on platform, which the Quartet countries won't be able to reject. Israel, it can be assumed, will boycott that government and ensconce itself in its foxhole to evade the political process.

The government must not ignore the declarations by the Hamas leadership and reject the chance of achieving a cease-fire with the organization, at the least. In light of Hamas' turnabout, the threat of a military operation sounds like a threat more to southern Israel than to the Gaza Strip.


http://www.haaretz.com/print-e.....s-1.404256

It's pathetic that such an article was published - within an Israeli newspaper - lauding the heavily calculated statements of that murderer as "historic" - is beyond pathetic.

Of course, their continued 'untenable' routine - has been clearly re-stated:

"A popular uprising, according to Meshal, means demonstrations and civil revolt without the use of arms. This doesn't include recognition of Israel or abandonment of the option of an armed struggle, which remains "a right of the Palestinian people" - but after the establishment of a state."

These demons want it all don't they!

Of course, in this thread, we have looked at this from another more realistic perspective - here is what I noted previously, within this July 11, 2011 posting:

"It cannot be that their rogue leaders think that a declaration of statehood would somehow legitimize their terror campaigns against Israel?"

How stupid is the writer of this article? Why would Israeli leaders agree to another pathetic hudna [ceasefire] - when they are NOT leading to peace - when in fact they are enabling these terrorists to continue with their inordinately irascible 'hijacking' of this so-called 'nation building' program....which is really a nation [Israel] dismantling program.

They are calculating that this unilateral declaration of statehood is their legitimizing factor, as Meshal notes - no points of contention have changed - with 'statehood' the armed struggle shall continue, while the claim to 'East' Jerusalem and the claim to a so-called right of return - shall quickly become front and center.

Of course, their policy of "no recognition of Israel" confirms that they do not seek peace - they seek full-out conflict. If they end up with a state [by hook or by crook] AND they can continue with: This doesn't include...abandonment of the option of an armed struggle, which remains "a right of the Palestinian people "after the establishment of a state" - then who can dispute their real objectives?

They are machinating a very serious set of circumstances - they intend to exacerbate the conflict exponentially through this 'declaration of statehood'!

These duplicitous entities are not interested in any form of peace with Israel - anymore than Iranian leadership is!



At one point it superficially 'appeared' that Fatah and its leadership were moving into that direction - however - their recent efforts of amalgamation with Hamas have proven their factual unwillingness to do so...

In this linked article we see this matter of fact comment - from Hamas' Meshal:

"A popular uprising, according to Meshal, means demonstrations and civil revolt without the use of arms. This doesn't include recognition of Israel or abandonment of the option of an armed struggle, which remains a right of the Palestinian people - but after the establishment of a state."

What is meant by a "civil revolt"? Where? In Gaza and the West Bank?

Or is he saying that Israeli Palestinians are going to mount such a "civil revolt"?

Indeed - their rogue leaders believe that a declaration of statehood would somehow legitimize their terror campaigns against Israel...while global apathy combined with propaganda driven biases have enabled them to get to this stage!

I think that the situation is clear...the only "historic" development here is the continued free pass to attempt to wipe-out Israel that these demoniac leaders are getting from the 'best' nations of the world...except Canada.


Last edited by don muntean on Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:15 am; edited 4 times in total
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reading the news tonight I see this article in the National Post about Canada and Iran here is an interestingly irrational perspective:

"...Iran’s leaders periodically make outrageously bellicose noises, but there is no evidence they plan to use weapons of mass destruction on Israel, or anyone else.

The reason for that is simple: Were they to do so, they and their country would be destroyed
..."

http://fullcomment.nationalpos.....an-nuclear

So that is about as intelligent as taking shelter of wooden duck in a pond surrounded by hawks! What is that? The mutually assured destruction argument? I don't buy it. The writer admits that the people heading the Iranian government are "insane" yet he thinks that they shall act rationally in this regard.

Of course the writer ought to look at the possibility that the Iranian leadership may come to see that 'martyrdom' as the price to pay - to wipe out Israel and spark a third global war - that shall have a serious Islamist element running along parallel.

Canada has to support Israel in this - it is the MORAL thing to do it is the RIGHT thing to do. If we fail to take a stand now we may not have the opportunity to later.

Here's another article from today's news:

A nuclear Iran will be more complicated to deal with...he who says in English ‘later’ may find that ‘later is too late.’”

http://www.jpost.com/IranianTh.....?id=256298
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