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 Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:47 am Post subject: |
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I thought of this a while ago and I was just thinking about it again. While Stephane Dion and Michael Ignatieff have taken the blame for the mess the Liberals see themselves in today, I feel Paul Martin deserves to take much of the blame.
Martin's feud with Chretien led to many rifts within the party, Chretien is obviously not innocent either. I read a section of John Crosbie's book where he said that he quietly started organizing his bid for the PC leadership in 1981, but made sure not to undermine Joe Clark's leadership. Martin should have done the same.
Once he became Prime Minister he didn't bother to try and mend fences with the "Chretien-wing" of the party. He booted both Manley and Sheila Copps from cabinet, and I dear say he had influence in making sure it would be hard for her to seek re-election. He also booted the two Ministers who had supported Manley from cabinet while the backbencher who supported him ended up having his riding abolished. He attempted to give Manley and Copps patronage appointments that would see them out of the country and succeed in making Alan Rock ambassador to the UN.
Martin ended up only winning a minority government and then had to negotiate with socialists to stay in power. He had already alienated Chretien loyalists, and by moving to the left in government he alienated blue grits. By the time the Liberals were eventually defeated he had successfully gotten rid of potential leadership candidates, like Manley. |
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| Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:48 am Post subject: |
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You make a great point;
I really had not thought of it from that point of view till I read your post.
I think I agree in part;
Martin Vs. Chretien began the tribe warfare within the Liberal Party;
However as we rolled into the 2006 leadership campaign there wasn't much of the old guard left standing.
You had Team Iggy (Which was largely new-ish Liberals), Team Rae (Which was largely old school Liberals) and Team Everyone else (which was largely the balance of the party membership)
It was up to the Liberals to unite against a common enemy, however they decided in large part to sit back and watch their party implode hoping to become the next man to get the leadership seat.
Dion's camera phone response to the coalition in 2009 was largely the end; a strong base of voters so turned off by this parties inability to line up behind one leader and the contentedness of Iggy and Rae to watch Dion fly off a cliff.
Even now you have a caucus of 39 MP's and we still seem to have two very divided camps, its beyond ridiculous.
If I can credit Chretien with one thing, it was that he left prior to an election he knew he could not retain a majority within and left Paul Martin a year or so to deal with a unified Conservative Party, Much like the Party brass is punking whoever becomes leader in 2013.
When Martin entered power he largely cut the heads off of anyone who was part of the other camp;
Honestly, I can't blame him.
Look at the mess Dion unleashed on himself by securing easy victory seats for all his leadership rivals, he drew his enemies close and they tossed him off a bridge.
Martin attempted to placate the left, as I recall he had his "Super Candidates" with Ujjal Dosanjh, union leader Dave Haggard, community activist Shirley Chan and Liberal party organizer Bill Cunningham which were all announced on the same day.
Martin just had no interest in placating the left that Chretien was leading that was largely keeping him out of the corner office.
I think you have open an interesting point of view;
The Liberals have been a divided camp since Pierre Trudeau left office;
I would even go as far as to point to the exact moment when the Liberals began to partake in political cannibalism was when Iona Campagnolo introduced Chrétien as, "Second on the ballot, but first in our hearts" after John Turner won the Liberal Leadership in 1984.
The Liberals went on to get destroyed in 1984, and lose again in 1988.
The divide of the right was largely able to mask any problems the party had because they really didn't have any competition for three elections.
However as soon as the CPC was formed it appears the same issue that existed in 1984 existed still in 2003.
Its been nearly three decades of "me first" thinking, I can see how its been hard to shake recently. |
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| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:43 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Rogue Liberal Readies Leadership Bid
Borys Wrzesnewskyj is ready to take on the elites who run the Liberal Party, looking to return the Grits to the ideals that made them one of the most successful parties in democratic history.
From now until 2013, the former Liberal MP is hoping to “unwedge the backroom boys” and open the party up through a grassroots effort to sign up new members. If all goes according to plan, it could lead to a run for the Liberal leadership.
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http://www.theepochtimes.com/n.....62194.html |
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:31 am Post subject: |
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| Progressive Tory wrote: | | Quote: | Rogue Liberal Readies Leadership Bid
Borys Wrzesnewskyj is ready to take on the elites who run the Liberal Party, looking to return the Grits to the ideals that made them one of the most successful parties in democratic history.
From now until 2013, the former Liberal MP is hoping to “unwedge the backroom boys” and open the party up through a grassroots effort to sign up new members. If all goes according to plan, it could lead to a run for the Liberal leadership.
... |
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n.....62194.html |
Yikes...
This should be interesting. |
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| Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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Will Dalton McGuinty's win in the election lead to either him or his brother running for the Liberal leadership? David has been mentioned as a potential leader and now that his brother isn't as despised in Ontario as he was a year ago his name may be more of an asset then a liability in a leadership race. Of course while I think it's unlikely Dalton may also decide to go for the leadership.
Dominic LeBlanc criticized Kathy Dunderdale while campaigning in Newfoundland and Labrador this week so I know longer like him. |
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| Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:17 am Post subject: |
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| Dalton McGuinty is the only Liberal left in Canada that has the means to secure the 416/905 ridings which gave the Tories their majority and was formally the Federal Liberals power-base. |
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| Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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| The Liberals may never make it back, I know longer like Dominic LeBlanc so I hope he doesn't become leader. |
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| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:20 am Post subject: |
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| Progressive Tory wrote: | | The Liberals may never make it back, I know longer like Dominic LeBlanc so I hope he doesn't become leader. |
The Liberals are the only party aside from the Tories that have truly national support, or at least did.
They just need to get over themselves; they need to realize that its time to win support rather then expect it.
The Liberals need to get back in the mindset from the past; they haven't won a majority against a united right since 1980 and they are still running their party like their opposition is split in four.
Their selection of a leader will ultimately be the deciding point as to if we will have a Labour/Conservative battle moving forward, or if the Liberals will hold onto relevance. |
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| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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| cosmostein wrote: | | Progressive Tory wrote: | | The Liberals may never make it back, I know longer like Dominic LeBlanc so I hope he doesn't become leader. |
The Liberals are the only party aside from the Tories that have truly national support, or at least did.
They just need to get over themselves; they need to realize that its time to win support rather then expect it.
The Liberals need to get back in the mindset from the past; they haven't won a majority against a united right since 1980 and they are still running their party like their opposition is split in four.
Their selection of a leader will ultimately be the deciding point as to if we will have a Labour/Conservative battle moving forward, or if the Liberals will hold onto relevance. |
A new Nanos poll only has them a few points behind the NDP. Mulcair could be the end of the Liberals, if he takes over the leadership of the NDP he seems set to turn them into Liberals. |
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| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Progressive Tory wrote: |
A new Nanos poll only has them a few points behind the NDP. Mulcair could be the end of the Liberals, if he takes over the leadership of the NDP he seems set to turn them into Liberals. |
The Nanos poll is kinda neat this time;
The Tories have maintained their 39% but much more evenly then the last 39%.
The Liberal numbers on paper look pretty respectable (NDP 29, LPC 24) the thing is that is basically where we sat before Jack passed away.
And the NDP dropping like a rock with a jet-pack in BC (37 - 22) is just the polls settling back into numbers very similar to what we saw nationally on election day.
The problem is the Liberals lag behind the Tories by a double digit margin in the West, a double digit margin in Ontario, and now have the BQ in the MoE of them in Quebec's battle for third.
With all that said, this NDP leadership battle may very well save the Liberals;
None of the candidates are that appealing, its rounding out into Topp who most folks who voted NDP in May have never heard of, or Mulcair who most NDP outside of Quebec are no fan of.
The Liberals benefit from the two greatest words in the English language
De and Fault |
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| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Justin Trudeau has stated he will not run for the leadership. |
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| Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:56 am Post subject: |
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| Progressive Tory wrote: | | Justin Trudeau has stated he will not run for the leadership. |
Smart Kid.
Trudeau going up against Harper would have been unfortunate for Trudeau.
He is young enough that he can sit as an MP for another decade before he actually does it. |
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| Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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| cosmostein wrote: | | Progressive Tory wrote: | | Justin Trudeau has stated he will not run for the leadership. |
Smart Kid.
Trudeau going up against Harper would have been unfortunate for Trudeau.
He is young enough that he can sit as an MP for another decade before he actually does it. |
Besides being the son of Pierre Trudeau there's nothing of any substance with the guy. |
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| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:53 am Post subject: |
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| Progressive Tory wrote: | | cosmostein wrote: | | Progressive Tory wrote: | | Justin Trudeau has stated he will not run for the leadership. |
Smart Kid.
Trudeau going up against Harper would have been unfortunate for Trudeau.
He is young enough that he can sit as an MP for another decade before he actually does it. |
Besides being the son of Pierre Trudeau there's nothing of any substance with the guy. |
There wasn't much substance to his father either. |
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:00 am Post subject: |
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I was asked over the weekend who I felt the next leader of the Liberal Party of Canada would be;
Being so preoccupied with the BQ and NDP races I nearly forgot about the Liberals.
At this point I have no idea;
The list of "Prospective Candidates" appears to be shaping up;
Scott Brison
Denis Coderre
Marc Garneau
Ralph Goodale
Dominic LeBlanc
David McGuinty
Borys Wrzesnewskyj
That is perhaps the most uninspiring list I could have even dreamed up; the sad reality is that it appears to be the field so far
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L.....tion,_2013
Forget about beating Harper;
That is a LONG way away, which one of those above can beat Brian Topp or Tom Mulcair to secure the official opposition?
With Dalton McGunity trapped in Ontario under a Minority Government; who is there to save the Liberals? |
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