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Craig Smith





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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 12:57 am    Post subject: Burning Korans - Your Thoughts? Reply with quote

Personally, given all of the trouble that Islam is causing in virtually every country in the world I think burning their books is a pretty modest response by Christians. From its abhorrent treatment of gays, minorities, and women to its violent intolerance of other religions Islam causes problems EVERYWHERE it goes.

A few months back an entire village of Christians (over 100 people) were slaughtered by Muslims. It was not reported by any major media outlet in Canada or the United States. But a few Christians planning to burn some Korans is front page news for days. Sick.
teenagetory





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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the Qu'ran burners should be allowed to do what they will with the Qu'ran. I also agree that Islam in general is hateful towards non-Muslim people. My experience has been that the people who most oppose radical Islam are not gay rights activists or feminists from the west. The people who most oppose radical Islam are Christians, Druze, Atheists etc who have lived in these Muslim areas while practicing an "incorrect" religion.

That said, by burning the Qu'ran, this small group is hurting any chances of combating radical Islam. Non-fundamentalist Muslims and people on the fence will not take our side if they associate anti Islamofascism with the burning of Holy Books. We would be far better off in using media campaigns to bring awareness to the atrocities (such as the massacre Craig Smith mentioned), that Islamofascists report rather than giving radical Muslims an excuse to commit more atrocities.
Edmund Onward James





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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This morning I listened to John Oakley of 640 AM Talk Radio interview Pastor Terry Jones, who said he would reconsider burning several copies of the Koran. I suppose he has made his point and received coverage in many parts of the world.

I phoned in and posed the question about Islam. And said from what I have learned there are no moderate Muslims. To be a Muslim one must be a believer of the Koran. Of course there are many interpretations. Perhaps it would behoove the Muslims to have one benign relgious leader such as the Catholic Pope. But then there are two major sects Shi'a and Sunni along with many derivatives such as Sufism.

ISLAM IS THE PROBLEM. It is an ideology that requires reform. Hence there are many who are reformation inclined and may be called moderates.

But not enough speak up in the mosques and madrasahs where many imams and clerics are generally forked-tongue. Or apologists and appeasers. The deamgogues who wish to rule, and become the Caliph, comply to the religion — or manipulate it.

When have you heard the Muslim leaders and clerics apologize for what they have caused? A few outspoken Muslims, who deire reform have such as Salim Mansur Professor of Political Science.,

And... does the threat of burning of the Koran jeopordize our soldiers any more? The jihadists thrive to rule and kill the infidel. The mainstream Muslims wish to convert infidels and turn them into dhimmis.

The war has just begun since the Islamists think in centuries not days, months, years.


ISNA Convenes "Emergency" Interfaith Meeting on Anti-Muslim Bias
http://www.investigativeprojec.....meeting-on


Last edited by Edmund Onward James on Thu Sep 09, 2010 10:29 am; edited 1 time in total
mr12387





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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

While I'm adamantly against the burning of religious texts, the issue here is less about the action itself and more about the plausible retaliation. No innocent human being should have to die as a result of this. And the chances of that happening are pretty high when you consider what lengths Islamic extremists have gone in the past to make a point.
Edmund Onward James





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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is the war just against extremists, Islamists, demagogues or is it, perhaps also about the spreading of sharia?

The soft cell of sharia continues.

And the homegrown are recruited at universities, which started years back.

When the global enemy realizes that democracy stands tall then there may be the beginning of reform and maybe peace. But I doubt that.

When the Muslims conquered they built mosques over churches and synagogues. They burned libraries and threatened their own people to abide or else.

Regardless, of the phony peace talks the Jews will always worry. The Arab League uses Palestinians as a scapegoat.

As far as the burning of the Koran, I bet it doesn't happen. Yet more and more people will learn about what the world faces for many more years.

Remember they think in centuries; whereas we thimnk in days, months and years.

Ann Coulter's p.o.v.
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=38914

Coulter is in your face, witty at times, or just critical. She is for the burning of the Koran because she doesn't care for present Islam and the jihadists... but has a heart for peaceful Muslims.

Gen. Petraeus objected to the Quran-burning protest on the grounds that it could be used by radical jihadists to recruit Muslims to attack Americans.

This is what liberals say whenever we do anything displeasing to the enemy -- invade Iraq, hold captured terrorists in Guantanamo, interrogate captured jihadists or publish Muhammad cartoons. Is there a website somewhere listing everything that encourages terrorist recruiting?

If the general's main objective is to hamper jihadist recruiting, may I respectfully suggest unconditional surrender? Because on his theory, you know what would really kill the terrorists' recruiting ability? If we adopted Sharia law!
Edmund Onward James





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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I subscribe to B. Raman's website www.southasiaanalysis.org

He strongly opposes the burning of copies of the Koran — but he's also against the building of Cordoba House in New York.

Raman is Additional Secretary (retd), Cabinet Secretariat, Govt. of India, New Delhi, and, presently, Director, Institute For Topical Studies, Chennai, and Associate of the Chennai Centre For China Studies.

BURNING OF HOLY KORAN COULD ADD TO HOME-GROWN TERRORISM IN US
B.RAMAN


President Barack Obama, Gen.David Petraeus, the US Commander in Afghanistan, and other American leaders have rightly condemned the proposed burning of the Holy Koran by Pastor Terry Jones, who leads a congregation of about 50 followers in the city of Gainesville, Florida, on 9/11 coinciding with the ninth anniversary of the 9/11 terrorist strikes in the US homeland.

2. There is still considerable anger in sizable sections of the US population over the 9/11 terrorist strikes by Al Qaeda and over the subsequent terrorist attacks on US citizens and troops in the Af-Pak region. There have also been attempts and thwarted attempts to indulge in acts of terrorism in the US itself, the latest being the unsuccessful attempt to blow up an American plane over Detroit on Christmas Day last year and in Time Square in New York on May 1 last.

3. The anti-US activities of the Yemen-based Anwar al-Awlaki , a US citizen of Yemeni origin, who has been described as a made-in-the-US bin Laden, have added to the concerns of Americans and their sense of unease and discomfort in their relations with Muslims. Al-Awlaki's sermons, while he was still in the US, were allegedly attended by three of the 9/11 hijackers. He reportedly met secretly with at least two of the hijackers in San Diego, and one hijacker moved from there to Falls Church, Virginia, as al-Awlaki moved. His sermons were also allegedly attended by Major Nidal Malik Hasan, a psychiatrist in the US Army, who killed 13 persons in a shooting incident on November 5, 2009, at Fort Hood— an important military base located just outside Killeen, Texas. The "Christmas Day bomber" Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab had allegedly met al-Awlaki during his training by Al Qaeda in Yemen. In March 2010, al Awlaki said in a videotape reportedly delivered to CNN that jihad against the US was obligatory for all Muslims.
4. The US Homeland has been targeted not only by Al Qaeda, but also by the Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan, which is believed to have had a hand in the conspiracy to carry out the unsuccessful terrorist strike in New York in May last. It has threatened more terrorist strikes in the US Homeland.

5. One cannot, therefore, blame large sections of the US population if their distrust of the Muslims remains high. This distrust---and the resulting resentment---has been further aggravated by the ill-advised attempts to construct near Ground Zero in New York what has been called the Cordoba House project --- a 15-story community center that would include a performance-art center, gym, swimming pool, and a mosque. Imam Faisal Abdul Rauf, a Muslim cleric, who inspired the project, has projected it as intended to foster better relations between the West and Muslims.

6. How insensitive and uncaring Muslims can be to the feelings of others not belonging to their religion is evident from the way they are trying to go ahead with the project unmindful of the protests against it and the concerns over its implications for peace and harmony in the US.

7. For large sections of Muslims---not only in the US, but also in the rest of the world---their feelings and sensitivities have to have primacy over those of others. They have a right to feel hurt and concerned, but not others.

8. The self-centred attitude of the Muslims and their unwillingness to take note of the sensitivities of others have created a feeling of revulsion against their community all over the world. Some express it openly. Many don’t.

9. Pastor Terry Jones’ threat to burn a copy of the Holy Koran is a reflection of this revulsion and the anger against the Muslims. No right-thinking person and no Government can support his plans. It could not only act as a red rag to the Al Qaeda/Taliban bulls and result in more terrorist attacks on US nationals and troops in the Af-Pak region, but could also drive more US Muslims into the arms of these organizations and result in an aggravation of the threat of home-grown terrorism in the US.

10. The US Government should find ways of stopping his threatened act by persuasion or, if necessary, by invoking the law. At the same time, it is important to stop the Cordoba House project too, which would definitely add salt to the wounds of hundreds of thousands of non-Muslim Americans. The attempt of the Muslim sponsors of this project to project it as an initiative to heal the wounds and foster Muslim-non-Muslim harmony will not carry conviction. It will be seen as one more attempt by the Muslims to flaunt their right to do what they want unmindful of the feelings and sensitivities of others. (8-9-10)
RuralandRight





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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Burning Korans is disrespectful ... burning Christian Churches containing Bibles, Religious symbols, and murdering the Church members is a crime against humanity.

July 20th 2010. Churches and Houses burned and Christian Children hacked to death.

Quote:
Mazah Village is still counting its casualties following an attack in the early hours of 16 July by armed Fulani Muslims that left an estimated ten dead and churches and homes burned to the ground...


http://au.christiantoday.com/a.....s/8681.htm

Where was the media outrage ?
kwlafayette





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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it is his koran, he has the right to do with his property as he pleases. It might be different if her were burninating original texts, or breaking up centuries old statues of Buddha.

It is not about free speech, it is a simple matter of property rights. If I owned a cord of firewood, would it be anybody's business what I did with it?
joan





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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 1:55 pm    Post subject: burning qur'an Reply with quote

Canada's Prime Minister describes his God, his Christ as tolerant. He encourages others to be tolerant too. And I agree. But tolerance and intimidation may look alike, the difference being the two being freedom. Tolerance involves choice; intimidation does not. I agree we should tolerate what the pastor has proposed; that is, not to cut his head off in response to what has certainly been provocative of global discussion. And I agree we should encourage others to tolerate what the pastor has done, not to cut his head off or cut the heads of others off or to murder anyone in response, but to encourage him, with the pen and with words, to desist his battle provocation. Well, he may say it was he/we who is/are provoked and you have to admit, he'd have a point. But the egg and the chicken, etc. so where does that lead? I wonder if the whole problem isn't twofold. That is, I think those behind the ideological perversion of Islam to incite violence, are not believers in anything but secular criminals whose goals are profit and power. I think, if we looked really closely at al qaeda and its network of organizations, we'd find many, many non-Muslims along for the ride, for the profit and for the chance to be lord over women and children and for the opportunity to practice sadistic cruelties with impunity. On the other hand, I wonder if the wound that makes Muslims recruited to do the dirty work for these criminals particularly susceptible to the arguments used to incite violence doesn't have its roots in domestic conflict. That is, my reading of the Bible tells me that as Sarah and Abraham grew older, they despaired of having a son and so Sarah asked Abraham to plant his seed in her slave, Hagar. He did, and Hagar gave birth to Ishmael, the antecedent of Islam's Mohammed. After Ishmael was born, Sarah got pregnant with Isaac. Then when Isaac was baptised, Sarah took offense to Ishmael's attitude and asked Abraham to send him and his mother off. He did so, but did not stop familial relations with them. Hagar went on to experience hardship that could have been avoided had Sarah not perhaps misused her power, as wife, to hurt Hagar and to undermine Ishmael's birthright as first son.

I took out a copy of the Qur'an from my local library and scanned it. That was the best I could do on first reading, as it is just as difficult to decipher as a Rushdie novel. But I was struck by a section called "Thunder" that appears to advise leaving the outcome of everything to God, which sounds eerily like what the Christian God might say.

Joan
Edmund Onward James





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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Koran is basically known as the doctrine of the sword, the religion of the sword.

As you gather I am not a fan of Islam. I researched and stuided the history for close to a decade for my histroical novel, but I continued reading books and information about the beginning and onward.

There are many good people who had no choice but to follow, however they either were fortunate to have benign teachers and clerics or their parents were not as zealous as some.

What Pastor Terry Jones said he intended to do, which will likely not happen, was because of part anger, part frustration, part education. In the sense that many people are fed up, including the supposed moderates, with the ongoing medieval preaching.

When will reform happen? At least start. Who will lead it? America, Europe, United Nations, Jordan, Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia? First victory. Then bases for at least the length of time in Germany and Japan. It took several generations for them to recognize a form of democracy and change their beliefs. Once the hardline grandfathers and fathers passed away the new generation could be educated. But... the bases are still there. And Obama, and followers are removing the troops from Iraq soone followed in Afghanistan. The warlords wait.

The Islamic world appreciates power, and deception, which was stated by Mohammad, the Prophet, and interpretated many years later.

When the four aeroplanes of 9/11 crashed did the Muslims of the world weep for Americans, Canadians, whoever was on the panes and in the buildings, or did they dance with a shrill? Of course a few denounced the egregious effort.

Jones has received more publicity than he probably expected and perhaps the mainstream media wants to use this as an example of misguided Islamophobia.

Why are there few Muslims apologizing for the misdeeds of theri brothers and their brotherhoods? Why don't the mass of moderates picket the Codroba House plan?

Last night on Steve Paikin's TVO program TVO there were five guests that talked about the terrorist next door, the homegrown ones. Shaykh Yusuf Badat, a reasonable Imam at the Islamic Foundation of Toronto. said he was very moderate and taught peace. 3000 Muslim Canadians come to his mosque every Friday. Yet he had notes from Duke University studies about who and why become disgruntled homegrown jihadists or apologists and appeasers for the homeland of Islam and teachings. It was as if he was pointing a finger at guess who to explain why there are homegrown jihadists. To me the young imam was but another apologist and appeaser for Islam rather than apologizing for what Isalmists have done.

Alas, he is of the soft-sell of Islam. Or, perhaps he was fearful, is, about retribution and getting kicked out of his mosque, which is probably funded overseas.

The Terrorist Next Door

As details emerge about an alleged Ottawa-area terror cell, we ask, how can you grow up in middle class Canada, and yet become so radicalized that you to turn to terrorism?

http://www.tvo.org/cfmx/tvoorg.....2010-09-08 20:00:00.0


Last edited by Edmund Onward James on Thu Sep 09, 2010 3:54 pm; edited 4 times in total
Edmonton_fan





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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not sure if anyone follows hockey.... Or knows what Lanny McDonald has been doing since he retired...

All I know is that whenever I see a photo of pastor Terry Jones....... :wink:
yoshi





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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well,

I seems the pastors website has been shutdown. The hosting company "Rackspace" said it violates their code of conduct......

Bull Shit..... This is politics from the feds. Just a quick scan of who they also host i found the following....

www.antiwar.com ( extream anti american )

www.hillaryclinton.com

www.69sex-korea.com


I am sure these sites meet their so called code.....


Kw of the league


Ps eddie you have been busy
yoshi





Joined: 22 Dec 2007
Posts: 59
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well,

I seems the pastors website has been shutdown. The hosting company "Rackspace" said it violates their code of conduct......

Bull Shit..... This is politics from the feds. Just a quick scan of who they also host i found the following....

www.antiwar.com ( extream anti american )

www.hillaryclinton.com

www.69sex-korea.com


I am sure these sites meet their so called code.....


Kw of the league


Ps eddie you have been busy
don muntean





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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He has a right to do this - if he wants to express his views in that manner...this isn't the Middle East.

Myself I wouldn't choose to do something like this - the point can be better made by educating people through communication.

Radicals always manipulate facts and skew communications and then end up making such radical 'statements' - without regard to common sense.

One cannot rationally communicate with radicals - of any persuasion.

The question then is - should one send messages in that manner? I don't see the good coming out of it.

One must ask why is their reaction always extreme with threats of violence?

Many Muslims routinely insult other faiths in their preaching and other discourses. We do not see similar mass reactions from people of them faiths. That isn't because they won't 'defend' their faiths but rather - it's because people following them other faiths tend toward tolerance - even in the event of insult.

Of course that said - i think that this pastor might be nearly as intolerant as those to whom he is sending his message. Like them - he thinks that Jews Hindus and Buddhists follow satanic religions. I bet his intolerance extends to other Christian groups too.

I think that God must be getting disgusted with human pettiness.

Naturally the mainstream of Islam should consider that the purposed burning of these Korans - parallels the same insult that the proposed building of "Cordoba House" at ground zero - does to westerners.

This has been hyped in the news for too long now - as was noted - there were heinous crimes against Christians which were not even reported in the news!
Craig
Site Admin




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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

teenagetory wrote:
Non-fundamentalist Muslims and people on the fence will not take our side if they associate anti Islamofascism with the burning of Holy Books.


They won't take our side anyway. There are VERY few Muslims who speak out publicly against their own extremists in a meaningful way.
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Burning Korans - Your Thoughts?

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