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plantguy





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PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 1:55 pm    Post subject: P.M MULRONEY Reply with quote

http://www.thestar.com/breakin.....finds?bn=1
The verdict is in and it's pretty much what I expected. Technically not illegal but pretty sketchy and sleazy. All and all a pretty fair assessment but I don't know if it was worth 16 million.
Daveeire





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PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am still awaiting for criminal charges to be laid agiainst Chretien and Martin but we all know that will never happen. Mulroney was no saint. He at least did a few good things while in office such as Free Trade. He was not the worst PM ever. There are stronger ciontenders for that 'honour'.
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How many people of great success in the private sector has not done something "pretty sketchy and sleazy"?

Its a reality of the world.

We didn't hold an inquiry when CSL changed their registrations on many of their domestic fleet to "flags of convenience"

Let alone two.

The opposition has used taxpayer dollars for the purpose of electioneering, Again.
fiscalconservative





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PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Daveeire wrote:
I am still awaiting for criminal charges to be laid agiainst Chretien and Martin but we all know that will never happen. Mulroney was no saint. He at least did a few good things while in office such as Free Trade. He was not the worst PM ever. There are stronger ciontenders for that 'honour'.


What would the criminal charges against Martin be for ? Mulroney clearly committed perjury and tax fraud....what is the evidence against Martin ?
thurmas





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PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

brian will always have to live with a mixed bag of a career.it was high purpose his goals with low politics his means to acheive them.
Daveeire





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PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fiscalconservative wrote:
Daveeire wrote:
I am still awaiting for criminal charges to be laid agiainst Chretien and Martin but we all know that will never happen. Mulroney was no saint. He at least did a few good things while in office such as Free Trade. He was not the worst PM ever. There are stronger ciontenders for that 'honour'.


What would the criminal charges against Martin be for ? Mulroney clearly committed perjury and tax fraud....what is the evidence against Martin ?


Martin was Finance Minister during the Sponsorgate scam.
fiscalconservative





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PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Daveeire wrote:
fiscalconservative wrote:
Daveeire wrote:
I am still awaiting for criminal charges to be laid agiainst Chretien and Martin but we all know that will never happen. Mulroney was no saint. He at least did a few good things while in office such as Free Trade. He was not the worst PM ever. There are stronger ciontenders for that 'honour'.


What would the criminal charges against Martin be for ? Mulroney clearly committed perjury and tax fraud....what is the evidence against Martin ?


Martin was Finance Minister during the Sponsorgate scam.


He was also feuding with Chretien and out of the loop in Quebec.
plantguy





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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think this will always be a stain on his legacy, much like the * beside the steroid tainted records of some Major League Baseball hitters. I suspect the blow to his reputation will hurt him more than any legal reprocusions ever could.
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fiscalconservative wrote:
Daveeire wrote:
fiscalconservative wrote:
Daveeire wrote:
I am still awaiting for criminal charges to be laid agiainst Chretien and Martin but we all know that will never happen. Mulroney was no saint. He at least did a few good things while in office such as Free Trade. He was not the worst PM ever. There are stronger ciontenders for that 'honour'.


What would the criminal charges against Martin be for ? Mulroney clearly committed perjury and tax fraud....what is the evidence against Martin ?


Martin was Finance Minister during the Sponsorgate scam.


He was also feuding with Chretien and out of the loop in Quebec.


I am not going to get into the midst of this debate,
However the defense of the Liberal Party during AdScam is simply beyond me.

100 million dollars vanished from the federal coffers, yet no one within upper echelons of government is to blame?

75 Candidates ran for the Liberal Party of Canada within Quebec.
Two former Prime Ministers, One former leader of the Opposition, and a glut of cabinet ministers and we are expected to believe that Alfonso Gagliano was the sole mastermind from within government?

Where is that 100 million dollars?
Which Liberal Candidates in Quebec received it?

Was Martin one of them?
Was Chretien?
How about Dion?

And did no one monitoring donations not consider raising a red flag when companies who secured large government contracts were making large donations to the party?

The optics of that alone should have been enough to at least set some alarm bells of.

Clearly it wasn't just Gagliano who benefited from this 100m.

100 million went missing from the governments accounts, yet no one in government is criminally responsible?
Edmund Onward James





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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No question Chretien should have been investigated, however the mainstream media The Star, publically funded CBC, etc think they should be left alone, a means to an end.

During the Mulroney, Thatcher & Reagan period I felt pretty good, globally safe and financially reasonable. PM Mulroney and the conservative ministers accomplished several siginificant things. However, being to clever can lead to manipulation and deceit.

In important positions, especially politicians today must be cautious with whom they socialize and prepare deals. I was truly disappointed with Mulroney's action.
Alex in Edmonton





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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Edmund Onward James wrote:
No question Chretien should have been investigated, however the mainstream media The Star, publically funded CBC, etc think they should be left alone, a means to an end.


And yet the Toronto Star thought it was worthwhile to do their own independent investigation into what Rahim Jaffer was doing the night he was arrested. I remember at the time thinking, "Why can't they use their resources to do an expose on Chretien?"

Sad, really.
fiscalconservative





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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cosmostein wrote:

100 million dollars vanished from the federal coffers, yet no one within upper echelons of government is to blame?

Where is that 100 million dollars?


The $100 million was the budget for the ad campaign. That money went to ad agencies - a percentage of that money went to kickbacks to the Liberal party in Quebec. Some of it wound up it a corrupt civil servants pocket.
There is no "missing" $100 million. If there was, Harper should track it down.

cosmostein wrote:

100 million went missing from the governments accounts, yet no one in government is criminally responsible?


Again, if there were crimes committed by senior Liberals, Harper can investigate. If you look at the Gomery report though, all the blame is put on Chretian. Chretian ran a private government program out of his office free of normal government checks. That mixed with his Chicago style of doing business led to disaster. There is, however, no evidence that Martin was involved. He and Chretian were barely speaking during that time, and its not likely a program that Chretian kept from his friends would be shared with his enemies.
plantguy





Joined: 27 Jul 2007
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Location: Lower Economy, Nova Scotia

PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Should Mulroney give back the $2.1 million he got from the slander suit. It would appear he received it after providing false testimony under oath.
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fiscalconservative wrote:
cosmostein wrote:

100 million dollars vanished from the federal coffers, yet no one within upper echelons of government is to blame?

Where is that 100 million dollars?


The $100 million was the budget for the ad campaign. That money went to ad agencies - a percentage of that money went to kickbacks to the Liberal party in Quebec. Some of it wound up it a corrupt civil servants pocket.
There is no "missing" $100 million. If there was, Harper should track it down.

cosmostein wrote:

100 million went missing from the governments accounts, yet no one in government is criminally responsible?


Again, if there were crimes committed by senior Liberals, Harper can investigate. If you look at the Gomery report though, all the blame is put on Chretian. Chretian ran a private government program out of his office free of normal government checks. That mixed with his Chicago style of doing business led to disaster. There is, however, no evidence that Martin was involved. He and Chretian were barely speaking during that time, and its not likely a program that Chretian kept from his friends would be shared with his enemies.


Actually the budget for the program was 355m,
It was 150m of that total budget which found its way into those "Liberal Friendly" Ad firms that did little or no work for that money.

The Liberal Party admitted at least some limited guilt when Paul Martin offered to pay back a the money that could be proven went directly to the Liberals.

The Gomery Report kicks around a number of 43m that seems to have been "misappropriated".

Perhaps I am splitting hairs here, but if 150m went to firms that didn't really earn it my request for answers as it pertains to 100m of that is not really unreasonable.

As for Martin's involvement,
Like I said, 75 Candidates running for the Liberals in Quebec.
He was one.

Was he aware? I don't know.
Did he receive any donations from these firms?
How many of the 75 did?
Was that money paid back?

I fully agree that this entire mess should be investigated in more detail, I would just like to see the government put the same effort into putting some accountability to the 150m as they seem to when it pertains to Mulroney and his 2.1m settlement.
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