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RCO





Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 6707
Reputation: 239.3
votes: 3
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

( do the liberals realise how stuiped there looking on this one , they spend months tearing this woman apart now have the nerve to say she's been unfairly targeted by the PMO . but weren't the liberals the ones first asking for her removing or more like demanding it . anyone else think helena Guergis is going to soon join the liberals ? i honestly expect it to happen with in the next several months . i wouldn't be shocked to see her leave rahim jaffer cause his career is ruined and she has a history of leaving guys . so if she does that i wouldn't be surprised to see her join the liberals before the end of the year )



Guergis unfairly targeted, says Liberal party president


Date: Sunday May. 16, 2010 2:12 PM ET

Ousted Conservative cabinet minister Helena Guergis is getting some sympathy from an unlikely quarter: the president of the Liberal party.

Alfred Apps, the federal party president and lawyer, told CTV's Question Period Sunday that he believes Guergis was treated unfairly by Prime Minister Stephen Harper.

"This whole Guergis situation is what I hope will become a big wakeup call to Canadians," he said. "We treat our public servants … with just horrific disrespect these days and then we go on and treat our members (of Parliament), we don't give them the natural justice that we would expect to give to ordinary Canadians."

Guergis was forced last month to resign as a junior cabinet minister, but Harper also kicked her out of the Conservative caucus for what he called serious allegations and announced he was turning the matter over to the parliamentary ethics commissioner and the RCMP.

Last week, the prime minister revoked her status as the Tory candidate in the Ontario riding of Simcoe-Grey, which Guergis has held since 2004.

Apps said that while the prime minister has every right to choose his cabinet ministers, to kick Guergis out of the Conservative party and her riding based on allegations is unfair.

"He's basically taken onto himself, on the basis of serious and credible allegations -- and there's no evidence yet that they were either serious or credible … her effective demonization; her ostracization; her vilification; the complete destruction of her political career," Apps said.

"And he's pre-empted the fact that she was voted in by the constituents of her riding."

Harper has consistently refused to detail the allegations that led to Guergis's ouster, but Apps said that isn't right either.

"She has the right to know specifically the allegations against her; she has the right to be heard and answer to those allegations."

New Democrat MP Pat Martin, a member of the parliamentary committee probing the allegations around Guergis and her husband, former Tory MP Rahim Jaffer, acknowledged that it may be that "guilt by association is the worst of her offences."

But Conservative Shelly Glover said the prime minister had no choice but to fire Guergis.

"These were serious allegations that were brought forward to the prime minister and frankly he did the right thing," she said. "He is the prime minister of the country and we need to maintain confidence in all the people working for him."

Apps said that the Guergis affair is just the latest example of how Parliament has become a forum for "drive-by slams," where reputations can be smeared under the protection of parliamentary immunity from libel or slander lawsuits.

"Testimony occurs with complete parliamentary immunity, behind closed doors," he said. "So therefore those who are members of the committee have a responsibility to make sure that the issues raised are germane and they're appropriate to the process."

Apps said he nearly became a casualty of such a "drive-by slam" when the Commons committee probing the Guergis-Jaffer case heard from a private investigator who testified that the Liberal party president helped a businessman with ties to Jaffer evade a fraud charge.

"Needless to say, it wasn't a great moment in my life," Apps told Question Period. "Fortunately, there was some braggadocio on the other side that tipped us off ahead of time."

Private investigator Derrick Snowdy testified that Apps was "the getaway driver" for the businessman, now accused of fraud.

In fact, Apps' law firm took a retainer from the man in 2006, as they would with any potential client, but quickly returned it when they decided not to represent him.

"What worried me … was that if we hadn't been made aware in advance that this allegation was going to surface … there would've been a full news cycle where the Liberal party president was described as the getaway driver for someone that was an alleged fraudster."

"It was only because we were actually in a position to know that and to respond with the facts that I avoided what I would consider very serious damage to my reputation."


http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/Arti.....pStoriesV2
DavidK





Joined: 22 Nov 2008
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Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Liberals are trying to play the whole “The enemy of my enemy is my friend” thing but I think they are jumping the gun here with Helena. They are the ones that started demonizing her in the first place, frothing at the mouth like rabid dogs, calling for her resignation due to her husband. Then stronger allegations surface against her, so the PM fires her and she no longer can sit as a Tory. This is when the Liberals turn and say “You were hard on her because she’s a woman, shame!”

You can’t have it both ways, Iffy! – People can see the change in direction anyway.

I don’t think it’s so easy to say that Helena will cross the floor though. She’s a conservative (regardless of her personal problems) and her constituents are Conservatives and conservative, it is normally a safe blue riding, right? If she were to cross to any party, she’d lose support. Bill Casey did well as an Independent, but his riding was very blue. If Helena wants to continue on, she’d be smart to stay as an Independent and vote with Conservative MPs, waiting to see if the party might welcome her back (assuming she’s cleared of any wrongdoing).

Edit: Not a good day for typos! :(
RCO





Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 6707
Reputation: 239.3
votes: 3
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DavidK wrote:
The Liberals are trying to play the whole “The enemy of my enemy is my friend” thing but I think they are jumping the gun here with Helena. They are the ones that started demonizing her in the first place, frothing at the mouth like rabid dogs, calling for her resignation due to her husband. Then stronger allegations surface against her, so the PM fires her and she no longer can sit as a Tory. This is when the Liberals turn and say “You were hard on her because she’s a woman, shame!”

You can’t have it both ways, Iffy! – People can see the change in direction anyway.

I don’t think it’s so easy to say that Helena will cross the floor though. She’s a conservative (regardless of her personal problems) and her constituents are Conservatives and conservative, it is normally a safe blue riding, right? If she were to cross to any party, she’d lose support. Bill Casey did well as an Independent, but his riding was very blue. If Helena wants to continue on, she’d be smart to stay as an Independent and vote with Conservative MPs, waiting to see if the party might welcome her back (assuming she’s cleared of any wrongdoing).

Edit: Not a good day for typos! :(


yeah i know the whole though of her joining the liberals sounds crazy but look at whats allready happened . the liberals have turned arounded and started to defend the very person they called to be removed for months . that by itself is extremely odd , they should be greatful harper removed her as thats what they wanted a month ago but now they only care to try and make harper look bad any way they can using a bitter former employee to try and accompolish that goal.

but it wouldn't be unherad of in the GTA for a bitter former tory to go liberal . it was what happened to Garth Turner , Belinda Stronach and Gary Carr . they all had very short careers afterwords though but did sit as federal liberals for a littel bit . the liberal party just seems to be where these mp's end up .

and in BC there is of course the Blair Wilson example where a kicked out/ scandal plagued mp joined another party that being the greens back then .
Habsrwfan





Joined: 04 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know, as much as anything, I think that it's the lack of consistency that hurts the Liberals.

On so many issues (this is just the latest), they try to have it both ways. They must think that Canadians have the attention span of a goldfish. You can't be calling for Helena's head one week, and then be criticizing Harper for being too hard on her less than a month later!

Just like you can't be calling for heavy government spending one week, and then criticizing that very same debt spending that you basically called for.
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