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RCO





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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:24 am    Post subject: pc mpp's Murdoch and Hillier ejected from legislature Reply with quote

Tory MPPs ejected from legislature over HST protest
Bill Murdoch and Randy Hillier banished for duration of session after refusing to follow the Speaker's order and leave the chamber


. Article Comments (110) KAREN HOWLETT

Toronto — Globe and Mail Update
Published on Monday, Nov. 30, 2009 3:02PM EST

Last updated on Monday, Nov. 30, 2009 3:04PM EST


.Two members of the Ontario Progressive Conservative Party have been ejected from the legislature for the duration of the session.

The Speaker took the extraordinary step of banishing Bill Murdoch and Randy Hillier on Monday, after both MPPs refused to comply with his order to leave the chamber.

The Tories are protesting the Liberal Government's legislation that would harmonize the province's retail sales tax with the federal goods and services tax.

But hearing on the legislation ground to a halt on Monday afternoon, amid a chaotic session with Tory members pounding on their desks and yelling, “call public hearings.”

In what was clearly an orchestrated protest by the Tories, the session began with Mr. Murdoch rising in his seat and saying, “Where I come from, [Premier] Dalton McGuinty is a liar.”

The comment was virtually guaranteed to get him tossed from the chamber. Mr. Murdoch was asked three times to withdraw the remark and refused. When he was asked to leave, his caucus colleagues formed a human wall around him, leaving him well out of reach of the Sargeant At Arms.

Mr. Murdoch remained in his seat and kept yelling.

After a 15-minute recess, Mr. Hillier jumped into the fray and got ejected for the duration of the session for refusing to stop banging the lid on his desk. But Mr. Hillier's involvement in the protest appeared unscripted – he refused to comply with the pleas of his own caucus, including leader Tim Hudak, to follow the Speaker's order and leave the chamber.

During one of many recesses, Tory house leader Bob Runciman described Mr. Hillier as “a free spirit.”

Mr. Murdoch and Mr. Hillier have been banished from the chamber until the government prorogues parliament. A date has not yet been set.


http://www.theglobeandmail.com.....le1382933/
RCO





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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tory MPPs refuse to leave Queen's Park
Hillier suspended over HST protest antics
By Lee Greenberg, The Ottawa CitizenDecember 1, 2009
Two Conservative MPPs protesting a proposed new tax forced an odd standoff with the Speaker of the legislature Monday by refusing to leave the chamber after being ejected.

Bill Murdoch and Randy Hillier were tossed from Queen's Park by Speaker Steve Peters; Murdoch after calling Premier Dalton McGuinty a "liar," and Hillier after banging his desk in support.

When Sergeant-at-Arms Dennis Clarke arrived to escort the men out, however, both refused to budge.

Clarke declined to unsheathe the roughly 60-centimetre sword he wears as part of his uniform.

Instead, Clarke reported the breach to Peters, who then expelled the two Tory MPPs for the remainder of the legislative session, which could come as soon as Dec. 10.

Still, the two men remained in their seats, shouting a series of incomprehensible demands while their colleagues chanted support. Debate went on like this, with all sides unable to hear each other, for several minutes.

Peters was clearly caught off guard by the tactic.

He alternated between ignoring the wayward MPPs and addressing them directly.

"You are disrespecting all duly elected members of this legislature," he said at one point. "You are being disrespectful of people sitting in the gallery."

Peters took several breaks to consult with staff before convening a special meeting with all three party house leaders. The leaders decided to put off debate while they negotiated an end to the impasse.

"I'm not aware that this has been done in the history of the province, but certainly not in recent times," he said in an interview later.

The two men left their seats late Monday evening, but stayed in an ante-room considered part of the chamber.

Monday's standoff is part of an ongoing effort by Conservatives to register their displeasure with the planned harmonized sales tax, or HST, currently being debated at Queen's Park. The Liberal government has said they will pass the legislation before the winter holidays.

The Conservatives want full public hearings on the 13-per-cent HST, which, when it comes into effect July 1, will add an eight-per-cent tax to a range of previously exempt items, including gasoline, home heating fuel, funerals and gym memberships.

"They don't have a mandate to do this," said Conservative house leader Bob Runciman.

"The premier himself was strongly opposed to this less than a year ago. So I think they have a moral obligation to go out and explain why they're doing this and to convince Ontarians it's in their interest long-term."

Government house leader Monique Smith had little time for the Tory stunt.

"Their childish behaviour is a negative reflection on their party," she said.

By the end of the evening, however, Smith said the two sides were close to an agreement that might end in an agreement for expanded public consultations.

"We're in discussions," said Smith.

Monday's protest is reminiscent of one by former Liberal MPP Alvin Curling who, in December 1995, remained in his seat throughout the night to protest Conservative legislation. Curling is reported to have urinated in a bottle during the overnight protest.

It was unclear whether Murdoch (Bruce-Grey-Owen Sound) and Hillier (Lanark- Frontenac-Lennox and Addington) would match Curling's feat. The two men, who said they planned on remaining in the chamber all night, were seen ordering food at five p.m., barely three-and-a-half hours after they began the stunt.

Runciman said he planned on organizing a visitors' rotation so that the two men were "not feeling left alone."

"Let's see how long they can hold in there," he said.


http://www.ottawacitizen.com/n.....story.html
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How close I am to actually considering voting Liberal in 2011.

The Progressive Conservative behavior is something I would expect for a Jack Layton led NDP.

The HST is UNSTOPPABLE, and at its core a good concept.

Pressure the Liberals to make it revenue neutral by taking the earnings restrictions off the rebate cheques that will be issued that punish Ontario taxpayers in a tax bracket that we need to start spending in order to get the economy going.

Get the other two tax brackets to also be lowered by one percent to take the burden off middle income and high income Ontario citizens.

At least push for a viable alternative.

Blocking the HST is impossible,
And getting rid of it after elected is reckless and harmful to business in Ontario.

The PC party has resort to cheap stunts in an attempt to get some short term support, which will not last because we have no policy to speak of once the HST legislation is passed.

To Heck with Ontario PC's, this is a bigger mess then it was watching John Tory try and be leader.
Mac





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PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I've said before, there's better issues than the HST to be working over... Hudak isn't impressing me so far...

-Mac
nathaliejcaron





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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting feedback here...

While I partly agree that this may be too much reaction for a unstoppable train, I do agree with their intent to request transparency and public consultations on this.

Obviously, McGuinty won't back down, but he's also treating the Ontario electorate like idiots by thinly veiling that he thinks were dumb not to agree with the tax package he's ramming through.

What other issues do you think the Ontario PCs should focus on instead?
DavidK





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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that McGuinty is treating Ontarians like we're stupid, but the PCs aren't doing much better. What's the point to getting elected for opposing the HST, at the expense of the Federal Conservatives, if the PCs aren't really going to oppose anything HST related should they gain power?

What should they do? Explain why the HST is a good idea, but with their reforms!
nathaliejcaron





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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DavidK wrote:
I agree that McGuinty is treating Ontarians like we're stupid, but the PCs aren't doing much better. What's the point to getting elected for opposing the HST, at the expense of the Federal Conservatives, if the PCs aren't really going to oppose anything HST related should they gain power?

What should they do? Explain why the HST is a good idea, but with their reforms!


But at the same time the CPC seems willing to back down - in that they were willing not to reintroduce the bill if it didn't pass in the House.

I don't know exactly what more they could do, with respect to this single issue, but to turn around and endorse it now would look even more foolish, no?

I think they might have painted themselves into a corner with that. Ideally, I'd like to hear about other issues from the PCPO - see where they stand on other non-finance related matters. Because it's true that they wouldn't get elected on opposing the HST alone... there needs to be more substance for sure.
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nathaliejcaron wrote:
Interesting feedback here...

While I partly agree that this may be too much reaction for a unstoppable train, I do agree with their intent to request transparency and public consultations on this.

Obviously, McGuinty won't back down, but he's also treating the Ontario electorate like idiots by thinly veiling that he thinks were dumb not to agree with the tax package he's ramming through.

What other issues do you think the Ontario PCs should focus on instead?


While I hate to be "that guy"...
When has there ever been a public consultation, referendum, or anything of the sort when raising taxes in any province or by any federal government?

Calling for Public Hearings in the matter makes Hudak look like an idiot, because if by some miracle he should find himself as Premier in his lifetime he will be dogged by those very comments the first time he does anything that could be viewed as unpopular.

He had ambitions of taking on public sector unions, would he do so without a public inquiry?

If we wants to lower taxes and cut spending, would he need a public inquiry?

How about every Provincial Budget? Should we hold a Referendum?

He is asking for something that no politician I can recall has ever done or is required to do then throws his hands up in outrage when it doesn't happen?

Give me a break.

I am no defender of McGuinty,
But here are my issues:

1) I have the NDP calling for a repeal of the Small Business/Corporate Tax Cuts. Tax cuts I believe will help create jobs

2) I have the Provincial PC's basically saying that if HST goes into effect and Business spends the money and changes their internal infrastructure to deal with a single filing rather then a duel filing, they may repeal it. That as far as I am concerned is a tax on business.

3) I have the Liberals using the HST as a Tax Grab, and given the state of tax revenue in Ontario any of the political parties who may have been in power at this time would have been in a dire situation and would have needed to cut spending, raise taxes, or a combination of both, but these Liberals are lowing Corporate and Small Business Taxes, and making life easier for business with a single filing HST.

All of the above are left of center mentalities,
The trouble is its the Liberals who are closest to center, and the least anti-Business of the three parties on this issue.

As for what the Provincial PC's should be focusing on,

How about anything that isn't HST?
Healthcare? Economy? Job Creation? Tax Cuts? Education?


Last edited by cosmostein on Fri Dec 04, 2009 4:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
nathaliejcaron





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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as I've heard the PCs never mentioned that they would repeal the HST if / when in power.

You are right though, I guess you never get public consultations on that sort of thing...

It's definitely a thorny issue, at the moment... Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nathaliejcaron wrote:
DavidK wrote:
I agree that McGuinty is treating Ontarians like we're stupid, but the PCs aren't doing much better. What's the point to getting elected for opposing the HST, at the expense of the Federal Conservatives, if the PCs aren't really going to oppose anything HST related should they gain power?

What should they do? Explain why the HST is a good idea, but with their reforms!


But at the same time the CPC seems willing to back down - in that they were willing not to reintroduce the bill if it didn't pass in the House.

I don't know exactly what more they could do, with respect to this single issue, but to turn around and endorse it now would look even more foolish, no?

I think they might have painted themselves into a corner with that. Ideally, I'd like to hear about other issues from the PCPO - see where they stand on other non-finance related matters. Because it's true that they wouldn't get elected on opposing the HST alone... there needs to be more substance for sure.


Yes,
But the bill will pass in the commons in Ottawa, so I would hardly consider that a backdown.

Bloc + CPC passes the bill, the Liberals are simply gravy.

While turning around now and endorsing it would look foolish, the PCPO already does so what does it matter?

The reality is Hudak is the Invisible man in Ontario Politics,
If he reversed his position I hardly think anyone would notice.

Andrea Horwath has a smaller caucus but seems to be the only vocal and visible opposition leader in Toronto right now.

Frank Klees opted for a lowered PST rate to neutralize the revenue from the HST, the MOA with the Feds limits Ontario's ability to do that till 2012 but perhaps Hudak should start running now on a 5 + 5 HST platform.

If he gets elected in October 2011, then reduces the PST portion to 5% in the 2012 budget in March which would go into effect July 1st 2012 he would look proactive and make Dalton look like he is standing still on the issue.

Or even a 1% as of 2012, and 1% for the next two years economy willing.

Or calling on Dalton to drop the "maximum salary" requirements on who qualities for an HST rebate? The fact that the Ontario Government is punishing those in a tax bracket that we need to spend money to push the economy is insanity, that needs to be brought to light and someone needs to stand up for those households.

Hudak is on a loop,
and when the HST legislation passes he will have effectively wasted nearly a year of his time as leader of the opposition on a matter he lost fully and utterly on.
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nathaliejcaron wrote:
As far as I've heard the PCs never mentioned that they would repeal the HST if / when in power.


They have danced around the issue as to will they or won't they,
And perhaps I am giving Hudak too much credit, but if he has wasted time and party money fighting so bitterly over an issue his party would take advantage of if he was elected,

Well then it makes him no better then Jean Chrétien on the matter of GST, and as far as I am concerned someone who is more interested in playing politics then leading a Province.
nathaliejcaron





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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cosmostein wrote:
Or calling on Dalton to drop the "maximum salary" requirements on who qualities for an HST rebate? The fact that the Ontario Government is punishing those in a tax bracket that we need to spend money to push the economy is insanity, that needs to be brought to light and someone needs to stand up for those households.

Hudak is on a loop,
and when the HST legislation passes he will have effectively wasted nearly a year of his time as leader of the opposition on a matter he lost fully and utterly on.


I like what you propose... It's one of the things I find most annoying. I don't make that much money, but no longer get a GST refund (or soon HST refund).

This seems absurd when the people who make more money spend more, and therefore pay a larger chunk of retail taxes... (unless I'm missing something).

And yeah, when this comes to pass, it will turn out to have been a lot of time and effort over not much political gain...

(Man, I missed this place!! Excellent discussion as always!)
RCO





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PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two banished Tories try to regain Queen's Park seats
Updated: Thu Feb. 04 2010 11:54:58 PM

The Canadian Press

TORONTO — Three exiled Progressive Conservatives are trying to find their way back into the Ontario legislature, a move that would bolster the party's ranks after an ill-fated tax protest and last spring's crushing byelection defeat.

Randy Hillier and Bill Murdoch, who were kicked out of the chamber two months ago for their sit-in over the harmonized sales tax, may have found a way to shorten their banishment.

And Laurie Scott, who stepped aside last year for ex-leader John Tory, is trying to get her central Ontario seat back by seeking the Conservative nomination ahead of the 2011 provincial election.

Hillier and Murdoch are banned from the legislature for the remainder of the session, which could deprive the Opposition of two members until after the 2011 provincial election.

But the party has discussed a possible resolution with Speaker Steve Peters that would allow them return to their seats once the legislature returns Feb. 16, Murdoch said.

The two Conservatives would have to be "called to the bar," which would require them to stand at the door of the legislative chamber, offer an apology to the Speaker and ask for permission to return to their seats.

Peters was unavailable for comment Thursday, but has expressed his discomfort in keeping elected politicians out of the legislature.

Murdoch, who triggered the planned protest by calling Premier Dalton McGuinty a liar in the legislature, said he's willing to apologize to Peters.

"As far as what we said about the Liberals, that stands," he added.

"But this isn't political now. It's his house and both Randy and I upset his house."

While the Conservatives knew Murdoch's "liar" remark would get him ejected from the chamber, the feisty member refused to leave. With Hillier joining him, he staged a 44-hour protest in the legislature.

Hillier and Murdoch apologized to Peters when they ended the sit-in on Dec. 2, but it wasn't recorded because the two had already been ordered to leave and weren't recognized by the Speaker.

The two could also return to the legislature if McGuinty prorogues the session and starts a new one in the spring with a budget and speech from the throne.

The call for two byelections on March 4 has fuelled speculation that McGuinty will prorogue to give new ministers more time to get up to speed on their files after last month's cabinet shuffle.

Scott, who currently acts as caucus liaison and special adviser to Opposition Leader Tim Hudak, will have to wait longer for a shot at the legislature, even if she secures the Conservative nomination in her old riding of Haliburton-Kawartha Lakes-Brock.

Many of her former constituents were upset when she stepped aside last year to give Tory a chance at a seat in the legislature, she said.

Tory lost the riding to Liberal Rick Johnson and resigned the leadership soon after.

Scott, whose father was a longtime federal MP, said she expects to face tough questions from voters if she ends up running again.

"Some understand a little bit clearer now my intent than then, because the emotion was a large factor," she said.

"But the people spoke. I'm sorry the way things worked out for Mr. Tory and for the riding, but I loved representing the people and I want the opportunity, if I could, to do it again."


http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/.....ntoNewHome
Luke Nicholson





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PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This doesn't sound good for the Ontario PCs. Good luck getting that ship righted.
Mac Enigmac





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PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Luke Nicholson wrote:
This doesn't sound good for the Ontario PCs. Good luck getting that ship righted.

Yup... Let's hope Hudak figures this out sooner rather than later...

-Mac

ps: I see the facebook and regular account link doesn't always work. Pity.
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pc mpp's Murdoch and Hillier ejected from legislature

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