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 Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:42 am Post subject: Christmas Taken Out of Rural Manitoba School |
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It won't be long before it is illegal to display anything associated with Christmas (trees, Santa, carols etc.) in public schools, regardless of what the majority of the citizens think.
http://www.winnipegfreepress.c.....24432.html |
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Hasdrubal
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 1112
  
votes: 5
Location: Nova Scotia
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| Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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| First we ban O'Canada in a New Brunswick school which was overturned & now ban Christmas. We seem to be forgetting that the majority dictates policy in this country, not minorities. |
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Alan A.
Joined: 31 Jul 2009
Posts: 237
votes: 4
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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| When a spaceship starts offering a one-way trip to another planet, I board my loved ones and a pack of dogs and horses and we get happily out of here, wagging our tails, neighing and laughing in excitement. I'm not even kidding. |
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kwlafayette
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 6155
votes: 28
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan
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| Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:39 pm Post subject: Re: Christmas Taken Out of Rural Manitoba School |
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| concerned wrote: | It won't be long before it is illegal to display anything associated with Christmas (trees, Santa, carols etc.) in public schools, regardless of what the majority of the citizens think.
http://www.winnipegfreepress.c.....24432.html |
How do you know you are in the majority? You seem to be assuming your conclusions here. |
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| Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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| just another example of how spineless the western world has become over the past 40 years.I really doubt the majority of other faiths are even offended by christmas I have never heard a muslim man or a jewish woman complain about christmas being celebrated in public institutions.i gues we will only be able to celebrate festivus soon like on seinfeld! |
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potan
Joined: 30 Jul 2007
Posts: 582
votes: 2
Location: Ontario
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| Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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| This conflict between atheists and Christians happens every Christmas. Frankly, I think christians have their priorities wrong. Is Christmas really about freakin Christmas trees? The whole debate over 'merry christmas' vs 'happy holidays' and christmas decorations risks sidelining the real fight for religious freedom and free speech which is occurring in the human rights commissions. |
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| Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 1:24 pm Post subject: Re: Christmas Taken Out of Rural Manitoba School |
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[quote="kwlafayette"][quote="concerned"]It won't be long before it is illegal to display anything associated with Christmas (trees, Santa, carols etc.) in public schools, regardless of what the majority of the citizens think.
http://www.winnipegfreepress.c.....ml[/quote] How do you know you are in the majority? You seem to be assuming your conclusions here.[/quote]
Fair enough, I shouldn't assume. Thank you.
I think a decision like this should be put to a vote by the tax payers who fund public schools. Vote for one of the following.
1. I favour the school's concert being called a Christmas Concert.
2. I favor the school's concert being called a "holiday", "winter" or "something else" concert.
I wonder how far I would get if I moved to Saudi Arabia and made a complaint about Ramadan? |
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Alan A.
Joined: 31 Jul 2009
Posts: 237
votes: 4
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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| potan wrote: | | This conflict between atheists and Christians happens every Christmas (...) |
I think you got this one all wrong. It's not a "conflict between atheists and Christians". For regular people, Christmas is mostly about heritage, traditions, and plain fun. I don't know any atheist or agnostic who is against that. Heck, even one of my neighbours, a devout Muslim, puts up Christmas decorations every year all round his house; he told me he likes it because it's joyful and it's part of his integration in the community. The political correctness zealots are the ones to blame, don't make it another religion war. |
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FF_Canuck
Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 3360
votes: 17
Location: Southern Alberta
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| Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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To my mind, this is something best left as local issue to be decided by the parents of students attending that particular institution. If parents and stakeholders are not capable of that level of influence over their childrens' education, it becomes a broader provincial issue.
| Alan A. wrote: | | I think you got this one all wrong. It's not a "conflict between atheists and Christians". For regular people, Christmas is mostly about heritage, traditions, and plain fun. I don't know any atheist or agnostic who is against that. |
Agreed - the celebration of Christmas is very much part of our shared culture. |
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Libertas
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 358
votes: 6
Location: Medicine Hat, AB
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| Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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We need the government to force all citizens to use "Merry Christmas" once the season begins. This will help win over the enemy force in the "war on Christmas" campaign.
These stories are a flash in the pan, the media pumps them up and exaggerates them because it helps sell papers. I've never cared whether somebody said "merry Christmas" or "happy holidays."
http://www.amconmag.com/tactv/.....lture-war/
| Quote: | Explaining the need for his “Stand Up for Christmas” resolution, Congressman Henry Brown of South Carolina released the following statement:
“I am troubled by the growing sentiment that the phrase ‘Merry Christmas’ is not appropriate and I am worried that attempts to celebrate a ‘politically correct’ holiday season may cause the loss of some of the traditions sacred to this widely celebrated holiday.”
For this stance, FOX News pundit Bill O’Reilly declared Brown a “patriot.”
Many have debated whether there actually exists a “war on Christmas,” with many conservatives answering in the affirmative and many liberals insisting that the whole thing is a manufactured seasonal ruse, exploited by opportunistic Republicans like Brown. While there is no doubt an increasing reluctance to use the word “Christmas” in public, especially within government and corporate institutions, liberals are right that the “war on Christmas” is often nothing more than an excuse to engage in cheap political opportunism and Brown’s “Stand Up for Christmas” legislation is a perfect example.
Brown is an archetype of the conventional Republican–a big spending, big government politician who constantly appeals to his base with ineffectual, conservative sounding rhetoric about peripheral social issues. It’s not that issues like abortion, gay marriage, and the 2nd amendment aren’t important–it’s just that most Republican politicians’ stances on these issues rarely produce anything that actually advances any conservative agenda. There is never a grand strategy–but always plenty of grandstanding.
For example, when Brown’s fellow South Carolinian, Lindsey Graham was attacked by his constituents for his big government record during a town hall meeting in October, the senator immediately touted his pro-life, pro-gun record instead, as if his position on those issues should excuse his support for spending trillions of taxpayer dollars. Likewise, Republicans like Brown supported every bit of President Bush’s spending, including the monstrous TARP, but by God, such Republicans want you to know those baby-killin’, gay-lovin’, gun-hatin’ liberals are going to hear “Merry Christmas” whether they like it or not!
For decades, such posturing on social issues has kept the biggest, big government Republicans in office and similarly, Brown’s supposed concern for the “traditions,” “sacred” to Christmas come off as grandstanding precisely because he is. Even many of those who agree with his sentiments concerning the loss of Christmas and its traditions, including this writer, can still see right through the opportunistic Brown.
And yet who can blame Henry? Grandstanding is often all it takes. When Brown’s fellow South Carolina Congressman Joe Wilson yelled “you lie!” at President Obama during his speech on healthcare in September, Wilson became an instant celebrity amongst conservatives, and Republicans across the country swelled his campaign coffers. Yet, few have stopped to recall that Wilson supported every bit of Bush’s spending, including TARP, making him little different from Brown and the rest of the usual suspects up on Capitol Hill. But still, say many conservatives, Joe Wilson sure told that Obama!
And now Brown wants to tell you “Merry Christmas.” Let’s face facts: social issues conservatism has been a tragedy since day one, never producing anything of value to social conservatives while at the same time giving cover to an entrenched Republican establishment hellbent on doing their fiscal worst. It’s hard to believe that most pro-life Republican politicians have ever had any real intention of overturning Roe v. Wade precisely because it is not in their interest to do so–simply opposing the law of the land on abortion has long served GOP politicians far better than if that particular Supreme Court decision had never been made.
If Congressman Brown or any of his Republican colleagues truly wanted to preserve “sacred traditions,” they could quit insulting their constituents intelligence with their feigned concern for life, marriage, guns and Christmas, and revisit the U.S. Constitution, something they took an oath to uphold upon entering office-and have taken a “happy holiday” from ever since. |
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| Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 4:25 am Post subject: |
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I, for one, am an atheist, and I enjoy christmas. Trees, decorations, family, giftgiving... what's not to like?
(I even like most of the carols!)
Compelling people to say "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Holidays" or "Merry Squidmas" isn't the way to go about seeking tolerance. That being said, I could also understand if a public school went with a more broad-reaching "happy holidays" for an inclusive concert.
This doesn't stop anyone from wishing people a Merry Christmas. It just means that people are not forcibly co-opted into something they don't necessarily agree with. |
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| Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:03 am Post subject: |
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And how about Ryerson in Toronto? This morning on the John Oakley talk radio program (640 AM) they had a panel, a gay professor and a lesbian editor suggested the festive season is for others, too... just like the Gay Pride Parade. The Jewish panelist was for Christmas and asked if their openess to all would work in the Middle East or other parts of the world.
I am not religious, though my Elder/Shaman/Ojibway friend suggests I am spiritual, but I value certain decent traditons. Christmas is one of them. Some have said I remind them of Scrooge.
Nevertheless, once more the minorities, the left, the supposed educated secular socities push the envelope.
Much of the social history of the Western world over the past three decades has involved replacing what worked with what sounded good.- Thomas Sowell
Conservatives (those who conserve and are pragmatic about changes) are too busy working, creating jobs, then celebrating with their familes. Many go to Church. And when I am invited I try to attend, especially when there are choirs.
MERRY CHRISTMAS FORUM MEMBERS. MERRY CHRISTMAS. |
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| Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Alan A. wrote: | | potan wrote: | | This conflict between atheists and Christians happens every Christmas (...) |
I think you got this one all wrong. It's not a "conflict between atheists and Christians". For regular people, Christmas is mostly about heritage, traditions, and plain fun. I don't know any atheist or agnostic who is against that. Heck, even one of my neighbours, a devout Muslim, puts up Christmas decorations every year all round his house; he told me he likes it because it's joyful and it's part of his integration in the community. The political correctness zealots are the ones to blame, don't make it another religion war. |
I don't 100% agree with this, but there's a lot of good points here.
Christmas is widely beneficial, and certainly defensible, simply on the basis of how it really gives us a sense of culture, heritage, traditions, and yes, just plain fun. You don't have to be particularly religious, or Christian, to get any of that. At this level, it's similar to Halloween - a harmless western tradition that people take a lot of fun from, gives us a deeper sense of culture, and which we tend to enjoy.
Now, as a Christian, Christmas has great added meaning to me. But the secular aspects of the holiday shouldn't offend anyone.
I can understand schools wanting to downplay, or just give a slight nod, to the religious aspects of Christmas, but the entire holiday shouldn't be consider verboten, no more than Halloween should be.
These are harmless and very fun traditions that only extremely thin-skinned people truly take exception to. And I don't think that we should listen to those political correctness zealots who would ruin all of our fun by making everything extremely generic and hollow if we let them. |
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