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machiavelli





Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 352
Reputation: 66.5
votes: 5

PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:39 am    Post subject: Cap,Tax, Trade Reply with quote

A “Cap, Tax, & Trade” program will not have much of an environmental consequence even if China and India participated; however, this colossal tax increase and transfer of wealth, from wealth creators to wealth consumers, would devastate the economy causing enormous unemployment, larger more intrusive governments, and will substantially lower our children’s standard of living.
Alan A.





Joined: 31 Jul 2009
Posts: 237
Reputation: 22.4Reputation: 22.4
votes: 4
Location: Western Canada

PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No economic Armageddon in sight though. We shouldn't exaggerate too much. Be it as it may, this whole cap-and-tax fraud (considering humans' activity is responsible for about 5% of all CO2 emissions) will just be used by 22nd century historians as an example of human kind's stupidity.
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 6155
Reputation: 156.2Reputation: 156.2
votes: 28
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Increasingly, it looks like cap and trade will not happen. Obama is blaming Republican resistance in the filibuster proof Democrat dominated House.
FF_Canuck





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 3360
Reputation: 73.4
votes: 17
Location: Southern Alberta

PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kwlafayette wrote:
Increasingly, it looks like cap and trade will not happen. Obama is blaming Republican resistance in the filibuster proof Democrat dominated House.

Indeed. I'm cautiously optimistic about it - it seems the the so-called 'blue dog' democrats are getting a lot of push back from their constituents over health care reform, and they will probably be reluctant to vote for not one but two highly unpopular bills. At least, until all their jobs are secure after 2012.

In the end, I think Cap and Trade's passage will depend on whether or not Obama wins a second term.
teenagetory





Joined: 08 Dec 2008
Posts: 369
Reputation: 30.4Reputation: 30.4Reputation: 30.4
votes: 1
Location: Halifax

PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FF Canuck is right. The Blue Dogs seem to be the ones who will get their asses handed to them by right wing republicans if they go through with healthcare reform. Many of them represent districts which would only vote for a Democrat if that Democrat hugged the centre line. If the Blue Dogs give any hint of Obama wishy-washy socialism, they'll be in for a world of hurt when the mid term elections roll around
machiavelli





Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 352
Reputation: 66.5
votes: 5

PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is essential that interested people read the US Treasury's report which states that a Cap and Trade system would have the same effect on taxpayers as a 15% tax inbcrease would be.

Harper's upcoming "Cap and Tax" program is just an additional tax that would redistribute wealth from wealth creators to wealth consumers.
machiavelli





Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 352
Reputation: 66.5
votes: 5

PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Canada had some legitimate small-c fiscal conservatives they would stand up fervently and passionately as opponents of any kind of cap-and-trade system. The cap-and-trade system that Harper and is leftwing environmental minister Prentice keep referring to is a stealth strategy for an enormous disingenuous, long-term tax increase on all Canadian households. It will evolve around an economic Ponzi scheme that includes an enormous new source of tax revenue for the government, demolishment of thousands of high paying manufacturing jobs, and a devastating transfer of wealth.



This wealth transferring vehicle would immediately increase the costs of goods and services such as gasoline, electricity and a wide range of industrial products. The rise in the price of Canadian goods would make them less competitive. Canadian firms would suffer in export markets and domestically in competition with goods imported from countries that do not impose such a high implicit tax on CO2 emissions. There would no doubt be pressure to impose tariffs on imports from other countries that have lower carbon costs. Countervailing tariffs base on carbon content would hurt Canadian consumers, destroy thousands of jobs, and threaten our global trading system.

Any candid, forthright genuine small-c fiscal politician would verify that the “Cap & Tax” tax system is nothing less that the extreme left’s new, socialistic approach to redistribute wealth from wealth producers to others.An ingenuous small-c fiscal politician, contrasting our CINO PM, would divulge that the “Cap & Tax” system is just another version of Trudeau’s National Energy Program which also was created to transfer wealth from the west.

A candid social and judicial authentic small-c politician would have advised us that the climate hasn’t changed in the last eleven years, and therefore, we should not annihilate the Canadian economy just to please the left wing extremists who insist on transferring wealth.
Some Guy 2.0





Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 304
Reputation: 21Reputation: 21
votes: 2

PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't forget, that when the conservatives were running under a true right wing banner, they were incapable of getting anywhere beyond the official opposition. Harper has compromised in order to ensure that at least some right wing policies can be passed.

It will take time, but Canada will begin moving to the right under the CPC.
NorthernRaven





Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 160
Reputation: 22.8Reputation: 22.8
votes: 2
Location: Ottawa

PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This shouldn't be an issue, as Harper is giving lip service to the media. If he and the CPC actually move forward with real cap & trade legislation, they will see a huge drop in their fundraising, and a caucus revolt from the Western & rural members.

For example:
Two years ago I had a conversation with John Baird at our campus conservative club, and I inquired the government support for carbon-capture technology in Saskatchewan. The project is NOT design to capture and store carbon for the sake of not releasing it in the atmosphere, but as a method for storing carbon dioxide to be used in enhanced oil recovery, which can be a cheaper method than injecting steam. So there is a real economic value to their real environmental project and legislation.

But lets face it, with the CBC and CTV, still saying that the sky is falling from global warming, and there is still a portion of the electorate who have the emotions to feel they (or their government) must do something, telling the truth can be quite difficult, and requires to expend a lot of politcal capital against the leftist media establishment.

So for the meanwhile as long as they talk about cap and trade, without actually implementing it, that will be fine for now, until they have the full legislative power of the Senate to move forward with real environmental legislation, that does not gut our economy.
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