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kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
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Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh yeah, devastating logic there. I mean, I see toddlers in diapers buying smokes everyday. I know you want more of your kind of government; almost everyone wants more government as long as it is their kind of government. But your strawmen are ineffective. I don't know about you, but I had adults around when I grew up, and they watched things fairly closely. It seems in your world, the only adults who interact with children are some kind of predators, while parents and other care givers are completely absent and uninterested.

Why is it that the only people who have to take responsibility are the tobacco companies? Has there ever been a problem that a new law or government intervention would not fix?

PS. Selling tobacco to minors has been restricted in this country since 1908. The tobacco restraint act of 1908 made it illegal to sell tobacco to persons younger than 16. Tobacco companies also have basically been barred form advertising for about 10 or 20 years now as well. So your maudlin emotional appeals, false analogies, false dichotomies, etc. are really just annoying when they are not humorous.
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 6155
Reputation: 156.2Reputation: 156.2
votes: 28
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And another thing. Tobacco companies did not invent youth culture, so trying to pin that on them is just specious.
fiscalconservative





Joined: 08 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kwlafayette wrote:
Oh yeah, devastating logic there. I mean, I see toddlers in diapers buying smokes everyday


Don't be an idiot. Drive by a school yard and watch an 8 yearold puffing on a smoke.

kwlafayette wrote:

I know you want more of your kind of government; almost everyone wants more government as long as it is their kind of government. But your strawmen are ineffective.


I will ask you again, where in that post was I calling for more government ? Back to the orriginal argument. You said smokers are not victims. I pointed out that many of them are, you responded with a flury of strawmen.


kwlafayette wrote:

I don't know about you, but I had adults around when I grew up, and they watched things fairly closely.


Did your mother follow you to school and into the boys bathroom as well ? I would have been grounded unti the next time the Leafs won the cup if I had been caught smoking. A policy I intend to follow myself. That doesn't mean a kid is not going to be able to light up if they want


kwlafayette wrote:

It seems in your world, the only adults who interact with children are some kind of predators, while parents and other care givers are completely absent and uninterested.


Huh ? I was just pointing out that children do not have the same decision making capacity of an adult.

kwlafayette wrote:

Why is it that the only people who have to take responsibility are the tobacco companies? Has there ever been a problem that a new law or government intervention would not fix?


First of all, they are not the only ones who have to take responsibility. Go ask a Macs store busted for selling to kids. The point is that the tobacco companies use to market to children. They still do in any juristiction they can get away with it They had multi-million dollar ad campaigns directed at children.

kwlafayette wrote:

PS. Selling tobacco to minors has been restricted in this country since 1908. The tobacco restraint act of 1908 made it illegal to sell tobacco to persons younger than 16.


Then if its been illegal since 1908, weren't the tobacco companies encouraging kids to break the law ?

kwlafayette wrote:

Tobacco companies also have basically been barred form advertising for about 10 or 20 years now as well. So your maudlin emotional appeals, false analogies, false dichotomies, etc. are really just annoying when they are not humorous.


It was only a few years ago they blocked the last of the loopholes in Canada. They were still sponsoring events that children had an interest in (such as fireworks displays) up until a few years ago.

Lets go back to my main point though. You said Tobacco smokers were not victims. I said they were. Even if you toss away the last 10 or 20 years of new smokers, the majority of smokers still started smoking when they were kids and the tobacco companies were advertising to them. Why not try to refute my point rather than running off on 20 different tangets ?
fiscalconservative





Joined: 08 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kwlafayette wrote:
And another thing. Tobacco companies did not invent youth culture, so trying to pin that on them is just specious.


They have spent oodles of money trying to influence it. Placing cigarettes into movies, having movie stars market them. There was a massive attempt to make cigarette smoking appear glamerous and modern and it worked.
Shortly after the "You have come a long way baby" campaign, smoking in women shot through the roof.

Tobacco companies have spent billions of dollars on adversting over the years, much of it aimed at youth heroes. Do they think they spent the money just for shits and giggles ?
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 6155
Reputation: 156.2Reputation: 156.2
votes: 28
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have never seen an 8 year old smoking anything, let alone tobacco, in my life. Really, you need to stop. I am done wasting my time on you.

PS. How absolutely brain dead, do you have to be, to miss the link between more laws, and more government? Do you think laws are enforced with unicorn farts, or tax dollars? Like I said, I am done wasting my time with you.
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