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fiscalconservative





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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 3:58 pm    Post subject: Stalkers.... Reply with quote

Is there any way in Ontario to tell if someone has a criminal record for stalking/ sex offenses ?

There is a local guy who has done some landscaping for us, who has been hititing on my wife for years. It was always a bit of a joke - no one took it that serious. He is maybe two steps above the village idiot, he is friendly and social, but he is mildly mentally retarded. He is sort of day labour in the summer for various people, but spends the rest of the year getting ODSP).

Well, a few weeks ago, his attitude changed. He has told his boss I threatned him. He came over one day and asked to see my wife, I told him she was not home and he appeared to be angry, and called her name a few times before he left. He has glarred at me walking down the street. He cruises by the house on his bike staring at the house.

I still kind of think he is a harmless idiot, and he hasn't made any threats or done anything criminal, but I would really like to know if this guy is dangerous.
DavidK





Joined: 22 Nov 2008
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Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Talk to your local police - chances are that if he's had a run in with them, they'll tell ya.

He's probably harmless, as you say and he could just like dealing with your wife. It's possible he just feels more comfortable around her, especially if he feels you and he don't get along, or if he feels you were mean to him.
905 Tory





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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Talk to your lawyer and see what can be done. Maybe, talk to your wife also and see if you could test him by having her outside while he talks to her while you watch from inside your home. Maybe he's got something for your wife or maybe he doesn't like you. Whatever you do, stay away from him--don't talk to him individually since he could somehow get you in big trouble even if you did nothing wrong.
fiscalconservative





Joined: 08 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Talked to the cops. Thats useless. I gave them the description (even though I knew his name), and they supplied the name. Would not give any information though.
They can't do anything until he does something - like maybe attack me with an axe at 3 am.
All I can do is request that he stay of my property, but I am not sure if that would provoke more conflict that it would resolve.
Mac





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
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Location: John Baird's riding...

PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frustrating situation. Since you've already called the police, the next thing to do is start a journal. Record the date/time & nature of incident each time you see him go past your place. Why bother with the journal? According to Section 264 of the Criminal Code...

Quote:
(1) No person shall, without lawful authority and knowing that another person is harassed or recklessly as to whether the other person is harassed, engage in conduct referred to in subsection (2) that causes that other person reasonably, in all the circumstances, to fear for their safety or the safety of anyone known to them.

Prohibited conduct

(2) The conduct mentioned in subsection (1) consists of

(a) repeatedly following from place to place the other person or anyone known to them;

(b) repeatedly communicating with, either directly or indirectly, the other person or anyone known to them;

(c) besetting or watching the dwelling-house, or place where the other person, or anyone known to them, resides, works, carries on business or happens to be; or

(d) engaging in threatening conduct directed at the other person or any member of their family.

By recording the contacts, you're building evidence toward a charge of Criminal Harassment. If his behavior gets worse, don't hesitate to call the police again.

Although this might not be the politically correct response, have you considered purchasing a firearm? Protecting yourself and your family doesn't seem quite so abstract and arbitrary when you're facing a situation like this...

-Mac
fiscalconservative





Joined: 08 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mac wrote:
Frustrating situation. Since you've already called the police, the next thing to do is start a journal. Record the date/time & nature of incident each time you see him go past your place. Why bother with the journal? According to Section 264 of the Criminal Code...

Quote:
(1) No person shall, without lawful authority and knowing that another person is harassed or recklessly as to whether the other person is harassed, engage in conduct referred to in subsection (2) that causes that other person reasonably, in all the circumstances, to fear for their safety or the safety of anyone known to them.

Prohibited conduct

(2) The conduct mentioned in subsection (1) consists of

(a) repeatedly following from place to place the other person or anyone known to them;

(b) repeatedly communicating with, either directly or indirectly, the other person or anyone known to them;

(c) besetting or watching the dwelling-house, or place where the other person, or anyone known to them, resides, works, carries on business or happens to be; or

(d) engaging in threatening conduct directed at the other person or any member of their family.

By recording the contacts, you're building evidence toward a charge of Criminal Harassment. If his behavior gets worse, don't hesitate to call the police again.

Although this might not be the politically correct response, have you considered purchasing a firearm? Protecting yourself and your family doesn't seem quite so abstract and arbitrary when you're facing a situation like this...

-Mac


My problem he has done little except ignore proper social behavior, hold paranoid delusions and peddle by my house giving me dirty looks. There is clearly something very wrong with the guy, but its difficult to describe for something like a restraining order.

I have been told that he has had a "crush" on my wife for 6 years now. He believes this "crush" is mutual and he believes my wife had agreed to go out on a date with him, but I prevented her. He also believes that I have made threats towards him (a bit silly- he is huge, looks like Igore on those old Frankenstein movies). The person who told me this does not want to explain it to the police though - he is afraid of the guy.

So besides being crazy I can't think of anything he has really done that could be convince anyone he is dangerous - a look or the calliing someone who was not home are not really convincing I don't think. My house is between where he lives and works, so he could argue that he is just going to work (is glarring at people a crime ?)

I have been thinking about the gun thing, but my big worry is this: I work out of my house for long stretches of time, but then I have to go to work for stretches as well. I have been at home since this happened, but soon I will be gone for long periods of time. He knows this. Having a gun won't really help at that point.

I guess what I am wondering is if this guy is going to snap, or move on. Right now, he just seems to be peddling by, but my car is always here. The tension started when my wife stopped talking to him alone. (he had dropped by while she was outside for years, but never knocked on the door. A few weeks ago, he sorta creeped her out, so she had me sit out there with her when he showed up). I don't know how he will react when I am not arround.
DavidK





Joined: 22 Nov 2008
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Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doyou know if he lives on his own or in a group home?

If he lives in a group home, you might be able to talk to staff members about him and they could try and deal with him.

How long does he stay outside your house? (Does he circle or just pass by?) If it is long enough, call the police, maybe they can scare him off?
Mac





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 5500
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votes: 35
Location: John Baird's riding...

PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fiscalconservative wrote:
My problem he has done little except ignore proper social behavior, hold paranoid delusions and peddle by my house giving me dirty looks. There is clearly something very wrong with the guy, but its difficult to describe for something like a restraining order.

A restraining order is a piece of paper. While it empowers police to arrest someone who disobeys the conditions, it's not really protection... especially if he's not right in the head.

fiscalconservative wrote:
I have been told that he has had a "crush" on my wife for 6 years now. He believes this "crush" is mutual and he believes my wife had agreed to go out on a date with him, but I prevented her. He also believes that I have made threats towards him (a bit silly- he is huge, looks like Igore on those old Frankenstein movies). The person who told me this does not want to explain it to the police though - he is afraid of the guy.

It might sound silly to you but, depending on his state of mind, it might provoke him to feel justified in acting out.

fiscalconservative wrote:
So besides being crazy I can't think of anything he has really done that could be convince anyone he is dangerous - a look or the calliing someone who was not home are not really convincing I don't think. My house is between where he lives and works, so he could argue that he is just going to work (is glarring at people a crime ?)

That's where recording the patterned behaviour comes in. Let's say he escalates to uttering vague threats. If you call the police and say "He's started threatening me" and they have the single previous report, they might disregard (again) but if you produce a journal showing the frequency of contacts, etc., the police will be more inclined to take action... especially if you mention your fears and the fears of your wife.

fiscalconservative wrote:
I have been thinking about the gun thing, but my big worry is this: I work out of my house for long stretches of time, but then I have to go to work for stretches as well. I have been at home since this happened, but soon I will be gone for long periods of time. He knows this. Having a gun won't really help at that point.

I'm less worried about you than your wife... so make sure she learns how to use the gun. Discuss it with her and you might find she's receptive. Some of the best shooters I know are ladies.

fiscalconservative wrote:
I guess what I am wondering is if this guy is going to snap, or move on. Right now, he just seems to be peddling by, but my car is always here. The tension started when my wife stopped talking to him alone. (he had dropped by while she was outside for years, but never knocked on the door. A few weeks ago, he sorta creeped her out, so she had me sit out there with her when he showed up). I don't know how he will react when I am not arround.

You shouldn't live in fear. The police are only one way to deal with a problem. There's many other ways, limited only by imagination.

-Mac
fiscalconservative





Joined: 08 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mac wrote:

You shouldn't live in fear. The police are only one way to deal with a problem. There's many other ways, limited only by imagination.

-Mac


That sounds rather Machiavellian, or maybe its just my mindset :-)

I apprecciate your advice, its really hard to understand crazy people when you don't deal with them everyday.

BTW can I tape conversations I have with this guy ? Could they be used in court ?
Mac





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 5500
Reputation: 104
votes: 35
Location: John Baird's riding...

PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fiscalconservative wrote:
Mac wrote:

You shouldn't live in fear. The police are only one way to deal with a problem. There's many other ways, limited only by imagination.

-Mac


That sounds rather Machiavellian, or maybe its just my mindset :-)

I apprecciate your advice, its really hard to understand crazy people when you don't deal with them everyday.

BTW can I tape conversations I have with this guy ? Could they be used in court ?

I'm not suggesting getting medieval on him or anything. I was thinking more of looking for other people which have impact on the guy. For instance, does he have family in the area? Would they be receptive/helpful? Since he works, does he have a boss? Would the boss intercede on your behalf?

Even if one deals with crazy people often, it's never easy but you learn behaviours which usually (but not always) help to keep them calm and help to get cooperation from them.

As far as recording conversations, do you mean to do so overtly or covertly? If it's overt, no problem. If you mean to do so covertly, so long as you're part of the conversation, you can record it (generally referred to as one party consent).

If you record any communication or conversation in which you are not an active participant or have consent of one of those who is party to the conversation, that's considered to be intercepting communication which is a criminal act.

The rules of evidence are stricter for police as we require judicial authorization if we're going to covertly record on a conversation for evidence purposes, even if we are part of the conversation. If we're going to intercept communications (ie: wiretap) then police need a specific type of search warrant.

To summarize, if you're covertly recording a conversation between you and Igor, you're fine. If you're covertly recording a conversation between Igor and the voices in his head, you're breaking the law.

A word of advice though... if you do record someone, don't use a voice activated audio recorder which stops recording when no-one is talking. The stoppages make it appear as if the recording was modified. Just ask former Conservative MP Gurmant Grewal...

-Mac
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