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Craig
Site Admin




Joined: 29 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gc wrote:
Maybe you haven't talked to enough Muslims?


Talked to? Are you serious? I'm talking about getting on news programs, writing articles in the papers. The only thing you hear from Muslims is that Jews must die. You don't read articles by Muslims about how the extremists must be stopped.
Cool Blue





Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 3130
Reputation: 114.9
votes: 10
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 5:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig wrote:
gc wrote:
Maybe you haven't talked to enough Muslims?


Talked to? Are you serious? I'm talking about getting on news programs, writing articles in the papers. The only thing you hear from Muslims is that Jews must die. You don't read articles by Muslims about how the extremists must be stopped.


Bingo. That's what I'm talking about.

There are only 3 or 4 Muslim columnists in Canada who write articles opposing extremism and those people are not only under constant death threats but they are denounced by the "mainstream" Muslim organizations.

(Salim Mansur,Tarek Fatah, Irshad Manji)
Realist





Joined: 20 Aug 2009
Posts: 1


PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi All,

First of all, I'm originally from the Middle East and am new to this forum. In fact I found myself here by chance while searching the news about the famous Kurdish singer Shivan Perwer.

I'm not here to argue anything about Islam or religions 'cos I know how evil Islam can be! The only point I'd like to clarify is around the wrongful arrest of the Kurdish singer and his company (who are actually not religious and their Kurdish people are themselves victims of Islamic terrorists) .

The common problem among many Westerners is that they think any Middle East looking man must be a muslim.. and hence he is likely to be a terrorist.. these prejudices, assumptions and psychological generalisations go on and on! I understand all bout atrocities and terrorist acts by some Muslims.

However, I believe that any Police Force regard themselves as competent and belonging to so-called the First World, should be more professional and should act upon robust intelligence and tip-off to differentiate the real terrorists from just Middle-east looking innocent guys! If they could not tell the difference then they're just like any layman on street who has no knowledge about the outside world. I'm talking about this particular incident only. Yes, the police got it totally wrong this time and they should apologise. To defend them here, would be like defending a surgeon who performed a brilliant surgical operation, but on the wrong patient, and yet praising him for his "brilliant surgical skills"..!! Finally, I hope that this incident will be a good lesson for the police to improve their skills and competence, to keep us all safe.. from the real terrorists.
Craig
Site Admin




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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

True story. My sister called me yesterday and as her and her husband were crossing the border in Windsor they were stopped, all of the border agents left their posts and circled my sister's car. My sister and her husband were handcuffed to taken in for questions.

Is my sister married to a Muslim? Nope - she is married to Kevin Smith. Apparently there is a Kevin Smith on the American "watch list". Sure a higher percentage of Arabs will get stopped. It makes sense given what is going on in the world today. Of course the police must not use race as a primary means of making determinations but to exclude it because some liberals don't like it would be irresponsible.
Mac





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
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votes: 35
Location: John Baird's riding...

PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Realist wrote:
The only point I'd like to clarify is around the wrongful arrest of the Kurdish singer and his company (who are actually not religious and their Kurdish people are themselves victims of Islamic terrorists) .

You're not clarifying anything since Shivan Perwer was not the subject of this discussion. Perhaps Shivan Perwer is famous to some folks but most Canadians wouldn't recognize his name, let alone his face. For those unfamiliar with the incident in question...

http://www.nationalpost.com/re.....id=1906683

Realist wrote:
The common problem among many Westerners is that they think any Middle East looking man must be a muslim.. and hence he is likely to be a terrorist.. these prejudices, assumptions and psychological generalisations go on and on! I understand all bout atrocities and terrorist acts by some Muslims.

The common problem among many minorities in western nations is they assume prejudice and psychological generalizations happen all of the time when such is not the case.

Realist wrote:
However, I believe that any Police Force regard themselves as competent and belonging to so-called the First World, should be more professional and should act upon robust intelligence and tip-off to differentiate the real terrorists from just Middle-east looking innocent guys! If they could not tell the difference then they're just like any layman on street who has no knowledge about the outside world.

What you believe is your business but what you claim is nonsense. There is nothing which suggests the police officers acted in a manner which was unprofessional. They were dispatched as a result of a citizen's report that the occupants of the SUV pointed a firearm and responded in the appropriate manner. That's got nothing to do with whether the occupants were Muslim or innocent guys, regardless of colour of skin.

Realist wrote:
I'm talking about this particular incident only. Yes, the police got it totally wrong this time and they should apologise. To defend them here, would be like defending a surgeon who performed a brilliant surgical operation, but on the wrong patient, and yet praising him for his "brilliant surgical skills"..!! Finally, I hope that this incident will be a good lesson for the police to improve their skills and competence, to keep us all safe.. from the real terrorists.

It's okay for you to attack police's integrity but it's not okay for anyone to defend them? Good luck with that!

Chances are the police officers, once they'd confirmed there wasn't a weapon in the SUV, apologized to the occupants (including Perwer) and explained what led to them to pull over the SUV over. That's standard operating procedure.

Most Canadians would be disturbed by being pulled over in such a manner but would accept the apology and that would be the end of the matter.

Perhaps you could take a lesson from that.

-Mac
Edmund Onward James





Joined: 04 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 7:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bravo Craig & Mac...

The police forces and our national RCMP are necessary... and generally honourable. Of course, there is always a small percentage of abuse, of thuggery with a badge, even some corruption; furthermroe, there are one or two that are truly obtuse but somehow got in.

However, without the forces where would be? Somehwhat like certian Mexican cities, Afghanistan, anarchy run amok, or the opposite if our police forces were not decent and followed the laws. We would live in a police state.

My friend, Spider Jones (www.spiderjones.com) a black man who once did time, because he was one of those roving thugs, a thief, and a gang enforcer in Detroit and Windsor. It was almost no choice. He joined or... you get the picture. A policeman taught him how to box. He went on to becoming a golden gloves champion, and now he's a radio broadcaster and motivator for children. He respects the police and has several awards from the different districts and OPP.

He was profiled, and probably still is. In his youth he knew that it was the associates, the area, the dress code etc. He did not look like a preppy. Spider said the Detroit cops especially during the times of the riots were brutal. But, he speaks on his program how black on black, the bling-bling, Hip-Hip Rap lingo, fast cash and so forth has profiled cultures, skin colour, and expecially 14 to 30 year-olds. After that age, the cops think they must be okay because they lived to that age. I exxagerate. But, the death rate and incarerations are very high in America, and Canada is catching up. Ckeck Vancouver, and Toronto, the bikers have either settled down in Montreal or they're all in the iron-bar hotel.

Spider hates the fact that often innocent people are stopped but, and sometimes several times in one day. Can that be changed? How? For one thing, how about stopping the gangs and guns. Simple but not easy.

My Man Mr. Jones pleads to the people to change the jurisprudence systems. Tougher laws, longer and tougher time. And profiling is part of the whole.

The Middle Eastern singer and crew should have cleared the way and his camera and sound man should have know better. They should apologize and learn that a celebrity status does not mean you can do what you wish. This was not a false arrest.

Do we require IQ tests before entering the country.
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