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chrisreid





Joined: 29 Oct 2006
Posts: 182
Reputation: 64.1
votes: 5
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SFrank85 wrote:

Well Ontario is not Quebec. We have a city called Toronto with a lot of problems with substance abuses. We have seen the abuses of corner stores with owners with the OLG (which I am against the government getting involved in), just imagine what they would do with alcohol. A lot of store owners donít even check ID when selling cigarettes.

If we were to strike a balance where alcohol would only be sold at stores with controls in place, then I would be fine with that. However, history has shown that at corner stores in the GTA that does not work very well.


The issue of substance abuse is a red herring. You deal with it through police enforcement and treatment. "Ontario is not Quebec". Toronto does not represent all of Ontario, and corrupt corner store owners don't represent the honest ones. Because there are some bad apples, doesn't mean you go and punish everyone, including consumers who drink responsibly. Responsible Liquor retailers should have the opportunity to meet the needs of responsible liquor consumers. It's not for the government and unions to dictate what kinds of wines should be sold.

We don't have government run car dealers (oops well the U.S. and Canada are in the process of nationalizing GM and Chrysler) to control who buys cars - to stop "shady" corner dealerships from selling low quality cars to people that can't drive responsibly.

When you put the arguments in context of other products consumers buy on the free market, it seems ridiculous.
Cool Blue





Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 3130
Reputation: 114.9
votes: 10
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Well Ontario is not Quebec. We have a city called Toronto with a lot of problems with substance abuses. We have seen the abuses of corner stores with owners with the OLG (which I am against the government getting involved in), just imagine what they would do with alcohol. A lot of store owners donít even check ID when selling cigarettes.


According to this logic the government should be the only ones selling things that can be abused. Should they sell cigarettes to prevent it being sold to minors? What about mouth wash,cologne or cough syrup? A lot of street people abuse those products. Spray paint? Lysol? Yep, those can all be abused.

My point is that you can never prevent abuse 100% and government control doesn't mean perfection.

For example, I know for a fact that LCBOs have sold alcohol to minors...since me and my friends used to do it.

The LCBOs have been around since prohibition times and we still have underage driiking, it's madness to think that government run booze can solve this problem.
FF_Canuck





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 3360
Reputation: 73.4
votes: 17
Location: Southern Alberta

PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool Blue wrote:
My point is that you can never prevent abuse 100% and government control doesn't mean perfection...

Indeed - as I mentioned already, Saskatchewan and Manitoba, with government liquor stores, have the highest rates of alcohol abuse in the country, while Quebec, with private sales, has the lowest. Alberta is under MB and SK, yet also has private sales. There is no connection, one way or another, between privatization of liquor sales, and rates of alcohol abuse.

SFrank85, are you perhaps unaware that private sales are still subject to regulation? A private store has no lesser obligation to follow regulations against serving the intoxicated or underaged, and indeed, actually has more to fear from civil action and government enforcement then the government's own department. If you're laboring under the assumption that government workers are more likely to follow laws and rules than private citizens, I've got a seaside condo in Calgary to sell you.
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