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ConservateurQc





Joined: 08 Mar 2009
Posts: 9
Reputation: 1.2
Location: Québec

PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The cuts in culture and arts sinked the conservative party in Quebec at the last election. Now, they have to start from scratch because all the efforts for the recognition of the "Quebec nation" and the elimination of the fiscal imbalence is now doomed. Remember, peoples vote for what they can get, not what they already have. If the conservative can't show their government renewed, than they will not move forward in the province of quebec. The basis is strong but it need to grow.

The conservative have to find something to give to Quebec in order to get them working in the federation. 1/2 of the population wants something since the failure of the Meech Lake Agreement. And this is when the history of the Bloc was starting. The bloc quebecois is a mix of different kind of people and they almost split in two the bloc voters between the right and the lift wing. They respect the pragmatism of the conservative but it is not enough.

We will see what they can do for the future.
ezbeatz





Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Posts: 1140
Reputation: 49.5Reputation: 49.5Reputation: 49.5Reputation: 49.5Reputation: 49.5
votes: 10
Location: Vaughan, ON

PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ConservateurQc wrote:
The cuts in culture and arts sinked the conservative party in Quebec at the last election. Now, they have to start from scratch because all the efforts for the recognition of the "Quebec nation" and the elimination of the fiscal imbalence is now doomed. Remember, peoples vote for what they can get, not what they already have. If the conservative can't show their government renewed, than they will not move forward in the province of quebec. The basis is strong but it need to grow.

The conservative have to find something to give to Quebec in order to get them working in the federation. 1/2 of the population wants something since the failure of the Meech Lake Agreement. And this is when the history of the Bloc was starting. The bloc quebecois is a mix of different kind of people and they almost split in two the bloc voters between the right and the lift wing. They respect the pragmatism of the conservative but it is not enough.

We will see what they can do for the future.


I'm sorry, but English Canada isn't Quebec's bank. I don't really feel sorry at all for the arts cuts. The media in Quebec is even more anti-Conservative then the rest of the Canadian media. They played that arts cut story for weeks during the election. It had nothing to do with the Tories and everything to do with the media.
Mac





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 5500
Reputation: 104
votes: 35
Location: John Baird's riding...

PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ConservateurQc wrote:
The cuts in culture and arts sinked the conservative party in Quebec at the last election. Now, they have to start from scratch because all the efforts for the recognition of the "Quebec nation" and the elimination of the fiscal imbalence is now doomed. Remember, peoples vote for what they can get, not what they already have. If the conservative can't show their government renewed, than they will not move forward in the province of quebec. The basis is strong but it need to grow.

The conservative have to find something to give to Quebec in order to get them working in the federation. 1/2 of the population wants something since the failure of the Meech Lake Agreement. And this is when the history of the Bloc was starting. The bloc quebecois is a mix of different kind of people and they almost split in two the bloc voters between the right and the lift wing. They respect the pragmatism of the conservative but it is not enough.

We will see what they can do for the future.

The difficulty is many if not most Conservatives outside of Quebec are fiscal conservatives, those of us who want to see the role and scope of government restricted, not expanded.

Then there's the problem that it's not possible to ever satisfy someone who keeps demanding more and governments should never give in to blackmail.

Quebec is far more socialist than other provinces and would not be able to afford to maintain those expensive programs if it were not for the other provinces paying for them.

Don't get me wrong... I used to live in Quebec and it would break my heart to see Quebec leave confederation but if the cost of maintaining the relationship is eternal tax-slavery, Quebec needs to go.

-Mac
ConservateurQc





Joined: 08 Mar 2009
Posts: 9
Reputation: 1.2
Location: Québec

PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The ADQ at the provincial level show that their's people in Quebec that are in your own saying "fiscal conservatives". So their'S hope. But remember, the bottom line is that when a party wants to govern, he has to make trade-off in order to survive in Canada. The pragmatism of M. Harpeur during the present crisis is not "fiscal conservative".

I believe that fiscal conservative policy is a key to break down the Bloc. But on the other hand, lots of Quebecers still wants a type of recognition that they could have got with Meech Lake. In a long run, Quebec will probably end having what was in the Meech agreement but without a formal recongnition in the constitution. Than it will probably be time to ajust it.
DavidK





Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Posts: 1520
Reputation: 68.5
votes: 5
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shifting to appease Canada as a whole, I don’t really mind. That makes sense to me, even if I do not agree 100%.

BUT – Shifting to appease ONE province, and ONE ethnic group in said province? Personally, I think NATIVES get too much as it is, and they were the first ones here! So if I think they get too much, do I give a rat’s ass about French Quebec? Not one single bit! They can whine until the cows come home, they always will.

The Liberals say they’ll bend to them, the Conservatives say they’ll bend to them, the NDP say the same thing! – No one has EVER been able to satisfy French Quebec! So I say STOP trying. Now I’m not saying that all Quebecers are like this, but the ones that are need to be ignored. Once this happens, maybe they’ll get the hint that they need the rest of Canada, and it’s not like they’re better than everyone else in this country.
ConservateurQc





Joined: 08 Mar 2009
Posts: 9
Reputation: 1.2
Location: Québec

PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DavidK wrote:
Shifting to appease Canada as a whole, I don’t really mind. That makes sense to me, even if I do not agree 100%.

BUT – Shifting to appease ONE province, and ONE ethnic group in said province? Personally, I think NATIVES get too much as it is, and they were the first ones here! So if I think they get too much, do I give a rat’s ass about French Quebec? Not one single bit! They can whine until the cows come home, they always will.

The Liberals say they’ll bend to them, the Conservatives say they’ll bend to them, the NDP say the same thing! – No one has EVER been able to satisfy French Quebec! So I say STOP trying. Now I’m not saying that all Quebecers are like this, but the ones that are need to be ignored. Once this happens, maybe they’ll get the hint that they need the rest of Canada, and it’s not like they’re better than everyone else in this country.


I will reply by saying that this is the Canada we are in. Macdonald and all the first leader of Canada wanted two level of power a federal and a provincial. By it nature, the system is built for both power to have clashes sometime (when a province request something to the federal government for instance).

And it is most likely to happen first with Quebec because they feel (probably because of the history) to be attack by the english canadian. Perception is wrong but it is strong. More english canadian will show their openess to Quebec, more they are going to rethink the choice of separation, and than more likely to vote for a federal party, like the conservative.

By the way, Quebec is not the only province that is begging for money or change in legislation to the federal government. Not long time ago, I think that Alberta and Newfoundland had some issue with the federal government.

Again, pragmatism is the key.
DavidK





Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Posts: 1520
Reputation: 68.5
votes: 5
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Newfoundland and Danny Williams can stuff it as well and the same goes for Alberta but at least Alberta doesn't play the games French Quebec and Danny W in NFLD play.

There is a time for being pragmatic, and then there is a time putting your foot down when you should! I don't see anyone standing up to the French in the near future, not the proper way, but I can hope and dream for the future just the same!
cosmostein





Joined: 04 Oct 2006
Posts: 7516
Reputation: 300.8Reputation: 300.8
votes: 21
Location: The World

PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quebec City should be our focal point for any surge into the Province,
There was a time before the 2008 election where we held four of the five seats in Quebec City.

Make it our base of operations in the Province like the Liberals do with Montreal.

The will is there, we just need to grow it.
FF_Canuck





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 3360
Reputation: 73.4
votes: 17
Location: Southern Alberta

PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ConservateurQC,

I think there is a lot of support within the larger conservative movement for a less centralized Federal government, that passes more powers and responsibilities to the Provinces, in line with our constitution. I think the hitch is that many in Quebec seems to want special status in the Federation - ie. they would not be satisfied with the same legal / mechanical rights as every other province.

As others have said, I agree that Quebecers are generally more inclined towards statism, even the conservatives - just one example is their steadfast faith in centrally planned agronomy, which led to the absurdity of the CPC supporting 'supply management' in our policy handbook.
Rusty Bedsprings





Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Posts: 1629

votes: 5

PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polls won't start meaning much until the public knows what iggy's views are, what do we know about him... he supports the gun registry and?
teabag





Joined: 30 Nov 2008
Posts: 501
Reputation: 118.7
votes: 6
Location: Mississauga Ontario

PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps if the Conservatives had not increased arts spending by 20% they wouldn't have had to cut back a measly 1%. I don't get it what was with the uproar. I think the media did a real job on this one and I wonder just how well informed Quebecers were when it came to this issue.
Rusty Bedsprings





Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Posts: 1629

votes: 5

PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And how much of that arts spending was going to porn? There was millions I belive.
ezbeatz





Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Posts: 1140
Reputation: 49.5Reputation: 49.5Reputation: 49.5Reputation: 49.5Reputation: 49.5
votes: 10
Location: Vaughan, ON

PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

teabag wrote:
Perhaps if the Conservatives had not increased arts spending by 20% they wouldn't have had to cut back a measly 1%. I don't get it what was with the uproar. I think the media did a real job on this one and I wonder just how well informed Quebecers were when it came to this issue.


Radio-Canada carried the story like it was the moon landing. But then what do you expect. They're all PQ and BQ supporters anyways!
SFrank85





Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2269
Reputation: 59.8
votes: 4
Location: Toronto - Scarborough Southwest

PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem I have is Quebec seems to want its own foreign policy. I am against this move, since it will weaken Canada’s foreign policy, and in same cases, even contradict Canada’s foreign policy, especially in the Middle East.
FF_Canuck





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 3360
Reputation: 73.4
votes: 17
Location: Southern Alberta

PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SFrank85 wrote:
The problem I have is Quebec seems to want its own foreign policy. I am against this move, since it will weaken Canada’s foreign policy, and in same cases, even contradict Canada’s foreign policy, especially in the Middle East.

I'm open to their participation in cultural areas like the ones they're primarily concerned with (ie. a seat at Francophonie). Provinces should be encouraged to pursue relations with 'safe' foreign countries, provided that they deal strictly with their areas of constitutional responsiblity and with subject to the Federal Government's 'right of refusal'. Alberta has their own 'Energy Embassy' to the United States, for instance.
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