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Igor
Joined: 09 Mar 2009
Posts: 3
 
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 Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:25 am Post subject: |
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| I like Peter Shurman but I'm afraid he has a major liability...he is the only PC MPP who actually who actually got elected *because* of John Tory. I don't think that will fly with the PC base. |
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Mac
Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 5500
votes: 35
Location: John Baird's riding...
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| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:01 am Post subject: |
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Tory's determination to "put the progressive back in Progressive Conservative" was his downfall. Maybe it is time, along with a new leader, for a name change?
-Mac |
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| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:42 am Post subject: |
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Igor, that's not entirely true. I worked on the Shurman campaign and despite all stereotypes, Shurman won and his own merits and a strong local campaign.
The riding, despite being the "most Jewish" in the province, is still only 1/3rd Jewish. Add that to the fact that even many Jews didn't like the faith-based schools policy, and I think it's fair to say Shurman doesn't really have that liability. Peter Kent decisively won the riding without this issue in his pocket, and it's for the same reason - it's a conservative riding now.
Shurman also doesn't have the liability of being around from the Harris years. Although I love Mike Harris and think he was perhaps our greatest premier, the fact of the matter is that the voting public is still strongly anti-Harris, which is why I will not be supporting Hudak first if Shurman is in the running. |
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| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:24 am Post subject: |
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| Mac wrote: | Tory's determination to "put the progressive back in Progressive Conservative" was his downfall. Maybe it is time, along with a new leader, for a name change?
-Mac |
What I found very interesting is a friend close to the PC parties ranks has stated how surprised the party in general is with the influx of memberships at the end of last week and over the weekend, it seems a lot of folks like myself have come back into the fold.
Shows you cannot win without your base. |
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ezbeatz
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Posts: 1140
votes: 10
Location: Vaughan, ON
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| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 11:12 am Post subject: |
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| cosmostein wrote: | What I found very interesting is a friend close to the PC parties ranks has stated how surprised the party in general is with the influx of memberships at the end of last week and over the weekend, it seems a lot of folks like myself have come back into the fold.
Shows you cannot win without your base. |
I signed up for my membership for the first time the day John Tory resigned. If they had a comment section on why I joined I would have said it was because John Tory left.
Cosmo, do you have any more details on how many people or what percentage increase there was in membership? |
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| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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| ezbeatz wrote: | | cosmostein wrote: | What I found very interesting is a friend close to the PC parties ranks has stated how surprised the party in general is with the influx of memberships at the end of last week and over the weekend, it seems a lot of folks like myself have come back into the fold.
Shows you cannot win without your base. |
I signed up for my membership for the first time the day John Tory resigned. If they had a comment section on why I joined I would have said it was because John Tory left.
Cosmo, do you have any more details on how many people or what percentage increase there was in membership? |
I am trying to get some hard numbers,
but the comment I received was "hardly the average couple of days" |
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FF_Canuck
Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 3360
votes: 17
Location: Southern Alberta
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| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Mac wrote: | Tory's determination to "put the progressive back in Progressive Conservative" was his downfall. Maybe it is time, along with a new leader, for a name change?
-Mac |
It would be nice. I wonder, if more people knew about the history and reasons behind adding 'Progressive', would it still be in use across the country? |
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ezbeatz
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Posts: 1140
votes: 10
Location: Vaughan, ON
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| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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| FF_Canuck wrote: | | It would be nice. I wonder, if more people knew about the history and reasons behind adding 'Progressive', would it still be in use across the country? |
PC is more PC (Progressive Conservative is more Politically Correct). I think it might have something to do with the Federal PC's. I know there was a Saskatchewan PC Party but they were corrupt so now the conservative party is the Saskatchewan Party (very original name I know). |
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RCO
Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 1896
votes: 2
Location: Ontario
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| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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| cosmostein wrote: | | Mac wrote: | Tory's determination to "put the progressive back in Progressive Conservative" was his downfall. Maybe it is time, along with a new leader, for a name change?
-Mac |
What I found very interesting is a friend close to the PC parties ranks has stated how surprised the party in general is with the influx of memberships at the end of last week and over the weekend, it seems a lot of folks like myself have come back into the fold.
Shows you cannot win without your base. |
i'm allready a member and been one since 2000 off and on . it doesn't surprise me that there has been an increase , also the prospect of a leadership race would bring alot of new members .
the reality was tory's brand of conservatism was a disaster for the party and just not selling , if they return back to where the party stood a few years ago i'm sure many previous members and federal cpc members will join . but trying to act like the old pc party was a disaster . they need to be seen as different from the liberals to motivate voters . |
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FF_Canuck
Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 3360
votes: 17
Location: Southern Alberta
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| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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| ezbeatz wrote: | | FF_Canuck wrote: | | It would be nice. I wonder, if more people knew about the history and reasons behind adding 'Progressive', would it still be in use across the country? |
PC is more PC (Progressive Conservative is more Politically Correct). I think it might have something to do with the Federal PC's. I know there was a Saskatchewan PC Party but they were corrupt so now the conservative party is the Saskatchewan Party (very original name I know). |
Yes, I was referring to the reason they added Progressive to the federal party name. It is an inheritance from a defunct party that arose out of pro-socialist sympathies imported from Britain and the US in the years between WWI and WWII. It was part of a larger movement in North America that led to the New Deal and establishment of the welfare state in most Western nations, among other things. The provincial parties all eventually changed their names to fall in line with the federal party. |
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Igor
Joined: 09 Mar 2009
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Fraser Macdonald wrote: | Igor, that's not entirely true. I worked on the Shurman campaign and despite all stereotypes, Shurman won and his own merits and a strong local campaign.
The riding, despite being the "most Jewish" in the province, is still only 1/3rd Jewish. Add that to the fact that even many Jews didn't like the faith-based schools policy, and I think it's fair to say Shurman doesn't really have that liability. Peter Kent decisively won the riding without this issue in his pocket, and it's for the same reason - it's a conservative riding now.
Shurman also doesn't have the liability of being around from the Harris years. Although I love Mike Harris and think he was perhaps our greatest premier, the fact of the matter is that the voting public is still strongly anti-Harris, which is why I will not be supporting Hudak first if Shurman is in the running. |
I worked on the Shurman campaign too. He might very well would have won without the school funding issue because the incumbent Mario Racco was widely regarded as the most brain-dead MPP at Queen's Park. That being said, he was very much "Your John Tory Candidate" and will be judged as such unless he works hard to distance himself - and if the school funding issue there helped more than anywhere else in the province. So far he might be the best candidate for me - but I'm keeping that in mind.
I wouldn't take Thornhill riding for granted. I always assumed Peter Kent was the underdog and I think that was the attitude of others as well. The Susan Kadis people assumed it was a "safe Liberal riding" and took it for granted. She was also done in by dropping Liberal support in the 905 belt. Michael Ignatieff will almost certainly prove to a more formidable opponent - so expect a real battle next time.
As for the Jewish vote, you're right to point out they don't vote as a block. The Vaughan side is more religious and Russian and small-"c" conservative. The Markham side has more established, assimilated Reform Jews. As a Russian Jew with relatives in Israel, I'm often frustrated by the liberalism of the non-Orthodox/non-Russian Jews in North America. But that's a topic for another thread. |
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| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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Why not somebody from outside provincial politics or the federal government. None of the current contenders impresses me all that much...
Some ideas....
Scott Reid has been so underused by Stephen Harper, is a true conservative, and would bring a fresh perspective.
Andrew Coyne would never ever run, but if he did, he would bring a refreshing anti-politics attitude and uncomprimising conservative beliefs.
Who else, outside of the obvious contenders, would be a possible candidate? |
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| Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 5:45 am Post subject: |
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| Scott would never run against Randy. |
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RCO
Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 1896
votes: 2
Location: Ontario
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| Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 9:12 am Post subject: |
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almost a week into this and we still don't have any " official " announments . that being said the by-election was a surprise so no one was exactly ready but still if there planning on having a new leader by the end of june who think they'd be geting out there soon . there seems to be alot of back room thinking , going on at the moment . but guess its early .
some of the front runners are being very quiet about there plans .but i'd be surprised if anyone outside of the current caucus makes a serious run for this . |
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kwlafayette
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 6155
votes: 28
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan
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| Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 9:30 am Post subject: |
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| Does it really matter? The likely successor to John Tory, is John Tory Lite. You guys are stuck with Liberals for at least the next decade. |
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