Home FAQ Search Memberlist User Groups Register Login   

BloggingTories.ca Forum IndexBloggingTories.ca Forum Index
    Index     FAQ     Search     Register     Login         JOIN THE DISCUSSION - CLICK HERE      

*NEW* Login or register using your Facebook account.

Not a member? Join the fastest growing conservative community!
Membership is free and takes 15 seconds


CLICK HERE or use Facebook to login or register ----> Connect



  

Post new topic   Reply to topic Page 1 of 1
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
mrsocko





Joined: 29 Oct 2006
Posts: 2463
Reputation: 131.2
votes: 8
Location: Southwestern Ontario

PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 2:37 pm    Post subject: Is Hell Real Reply with quote

I have been challenged by a friend who says that the prevalentnt Christian theological concept of hell is wrong. According to my friend due to mistranslation of the original scriptures this concept of people roasting for ever in a firey furnace has become a part of mainline Chirstianity while there is enormous proof that the early church fathers never believed in it.

I was wondering if any of the Christians on this board have ever studied this issue and could give me some insite. The idea that there is no hell sits well with my soul but I want to be sure.
Rusty Bedsprings





Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Posts: 1629

votes: 5

PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrsocko wrote:
Quote:
I have been challenged by a friend who says that the prevalentnt Christian theological concept of hell is wrong. According to my friend due to mistranslation of the original scriptures this concept of people roasting for ever in a firey furnace has become a part of mainline Chirstianity while there is enormous proof that the early church fathers never believed in it.

I was wondering if any of the Christians on this board have ever studied this issue and could give me some insite. The idea that there is no hell sits well with my soul but I want to be sure.


In Christianity hell is pain beyond imagination, Dante said it was cold, many say it is burning hot but in Christianity it is "beyond your imagination". Heaven is paradise "beyond your imagination", hell is pain "beyond your imagination".
don muntean





Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Posts: 2262
Reputation: 34.9Reputation: 34.9Reputation: 34.9
votes: 8
Location: Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's very real and while it may seem so for those who are there - it's not eternal...
joshuabrown





Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 13
Reputation: 13.4

PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

don muntean wrote:
It's very real and while it may seem so for those who are there - it's not eternal...


Hmm...what's the basis for it not being eternal? And what happens to these souls after Hell then?
urbanmonk





Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 307
Reputation: 16.8Reputation: 16.8
votes: 5

PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Is Hell Real Reply with quote

mrsocko wrote:

I was wondering if any of the Christians on this board have ever studied this issue and could give me some insite. The idea that there is no hell sits well with my soul but I want to be sure.

Hi mrsocko,
If one believes the bible to be inspired and correct and that Jesus is Christ I think it would be difficult to come to the conclusion that hell is not real without compromising your beliefs.
Hell is discussed throughout the bible and was an important part of Jesus teaching.
Quote:
And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
-Jesus- Mark 9:43-48
FF_Canuck





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 3360
Reputation: 73.4
votes: 17
Location: Southern Alberta

PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Is Hell Real Reply with quote

mrsocko wrote:
I have been challenged by a friend who says that the prevalentnt Christian theological concept of hell is wrong. According to my friend due to mistranslation of the original scriptures this concept of people roasting for ever in a firey furnace has become a part of mainline Chirstianity while there is enormous proof that the early church fathers never believed in it.


That's interesting... did he have any sources that you recall? Is it similar to the 'Witch / Poisoner' issue?
mrsocko





Joined: 29 Oct 2006
Posts: 2463
Reputation: 131.2
votes: 8
Location: Southwestern Ontario

PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
That's interesting... did he have any sources that you recall? Is it similar to the 'Witch / Poisoner' issue?


Don't know the witch/poisoner thing. Sources are the scriptures themselves. "Every knee shall bow every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. Sounds like a confession of faith to me. There are hundreds of similar verses.

Urban Monk wrote:
Quote:
If one believes the bible to be inspired and correct and that Jesus is Christ I think it would be difficult to come to the conclusion that hell is not real without compromising your beliefs.
Hell is discussed throughout the bible and was an important part of Jesus teaching.
Quote:
And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
-Jesus- Mark 9:43-48


The hell referred to in this verse is the garbage dump Gehenna on the outskirts of Jeruselam. Jesus prophesied the judgement to the Jews. They rejected him and judgement came in 70 A.D. All jews in Jerusalem were either sold into slavery or killed and there bodies burnt in Gehenna. 600,000 bodies is the estimate I heared. This is also the lake of fire referred to in Revelations. In revelations Nero is the beast according to some numbering system the Jews had at the time. Nero's name adds up to 666.

Funny thing about hell is that there are many words in the Bible translated as hell. In the King James there were 55 mentions of hell. In the new King James it is mentioned 33 times. In the new International version it is mentioned 13 times. Hopefully in the next translation it will not be mentioned at all as it is a very obscure word to use for a place of eternal torment. In early english it was just meant the grave.
mrsocko





Joined: 29 Oct 2006
Posts: 2463
Reputation: 131.2
votes: 8
Location: Southwestern Ontario

PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Hmm...what's the basis for it not being eternal? And what happens to these souls after Hell then?


Eternity is a faulty concept. The ancients believed in ages. In the most of the places in the bible were eternity is used you could also translate the words as in this age or the age to come, as when Jesus said that blasphemying the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven in this age or the age to come.

What happens to these souls after hell?
Time ends. Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega the beginning and the end(of time). Eternity is the end of time I suppose or the end of the ages. So these souls who where in hell(if hell as we think it even exists) are released from hell and bow down and worship Jesus. And all creation is restored and reconciled to Jesus who hands over the Kingdom to God the father so God can be All in All

Quote:
1 Corinthians 15:25-28
25For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26The last enemy to be(B) destroyed is death. 27For "God has put all things in subjection under his feet." But when it says, "all things are put in subjection," it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him. 28When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.
urbanmonk





Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 307
Reputation: 16.8Reputation: 16.8
votes: 5

PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrsocko wrote:

The hell referred to in this verse is the garbage dump Gehenna on the outskirts of Jeruselam.

Agreed, but Jesus did not come to earth to warn people about their immediate future. He used Gehenna on a few occasions to illustrate the horrors of hell, Gehenna was a place that every jew hated and it would have been the easiest way to illustrate his point.

Interesting topic!
mrsocko





Joined: 29 Oct 2006
Posts: 2463
Reputation: 131.2
votes: 8
Location: Southwestern Ontario

PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Agreed, but Jesus did not come to earth to warn people about their immediate future.


I'm going thru a bit of a paridigm shift in thinking in regards to the context of the scriptures. The signs of the end of the age Jesus talks of seem to me to be more relevant to 70A.D. then they do to now.


Quote:
Matthew 24:3 (New International Version)

Quote:
3As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. "Tell us," they said, "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?"


4Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,[a]' and will deceive many. 6You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of birth pains.

9"Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

34I tell you the truth, this generation[e] will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.


If Jesus is telling the truth that generation would not pass away until all these things had happened. Sounds like the 70 A.D. apocalypse to me.
Dauphin





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 98
Reputation: 41.7Reputation: 41.7Reputation: 41.7Reputation: 41.7

PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The existence of hell, which consists of an eternal punishment with fire, is de fide - a dogmatic, irreformable part of the faith.

The "revised" doctrines in this thread demonstrate the danger of personally interpreting scripture as if in a vacuum, without reference to the Sacred Tradition or the Magisterium.

Happily, even someone who believes in the absurd doctrine of "sola scriptura" is forced to accept that hell is eternal, since this doctrine is found in scripture itself:

"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels." - Matthew 25:41
SFrank85





Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2269
Reputation: 59.8
votes: 4
Location: Toronto - Scarborough Southwest

PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrsocko wrote:
Quote:
Agreed, but Jesus did not come to earth to warn people about their immediate future.


I'm going thru a bit of a paridigm shift in thinking in regards to the context of the scriptures. The signs of the end of the age Jesus talks of seem to me to be more relevant to 70A.D. then they do to now.


Quote:
Matthew 24:3 (New International Version)

Quote:
3As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. "Tell us," they said, "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?"


4Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,[a]' and will deceive many. 6You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of birth pains.

9"Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

34I tell you the truth, this generation[e] will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.


If Jesus is telling the truth that generation would not pass away until all these things had happened. Sounds like the 70 A.D. apocalypse to me.


The apocalypse could not have happened in 70 A.D. First things first, Israel was not a state until 1948. Without that piece of the puzzle, an apocalypse could not have happened. The next thing to happen is that all Jewish tribes are to return to the land of Israel, which has not fully happened yet. These things come in stages.

As for generation, it could mean mankind. Our generation can be traced back to Adam and Eve (if you believe in Genesis). Time for God is not a matter. God has created time for us to understand our nature around us.
SFrank85





Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2269
Reputation: 59.8
votes: 4
Location: Toronto - Scarborough Southwest

PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As for hell, does it exist? If it does not exist now, it will after our time of judgement.
905 Tory





Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 267
Reputation: 79.4Reputation: 79.4
votes: 2

PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 1:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I take this whole heaven/hell concept to be an interpretation. Remember, even Jesus couldn't really describe what heaven (used parables instead). Even with the different major religions. I think we are all correct, except that we just are never sure about the details. A lot of people have died over this. But I see each religion pointing to the moon, and the followers are more concerned about the finger rather than the moon.

I am not Christian but I agree with a lot of what it says (specific things in teachings rather than what the leaders/scam-artists are saying). Same thing with Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc. I see all these religions are saying the same exact thing differently. Even the Sikh scriptures say that it doesn't matter what, we are all the sons and daughters of God. It is interpreted to say that if you feel Hinduism is right for you, go for it. Same thing with the other religions.

Heaven/Hell is just a concept to explain the larger complex issue of God. We are too concerned with these things that we lose focus on the reason why religion is there--to focus and communicate with God.
Post new topic   Reply to topic Page 1 of 1

  


 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You can attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Is Hell Real

phpBBCopyright 2001, 2005 phpBB