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If I get into a deadly crash (currently) I _____ my organs to be used in someone else.
would not allow
12%
 12%  [ 2 ]
would allow
68%
 68%  [ 11 ]
I have not decided yet
18%
 18%  [ 3 ]
Total Votes : 16

Author Message
fiscalconservative





Joined: 08 Dec 2008
Posts: 1043
Reputation: 49.9Reputation: 49.9Reputation: 49.9Reputation: 49.9Reputation: 49.9
votes: 6

PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

crazymamma wrote:


Quote:
I value my pay check


I also value your paycheque and I think I can spend it better then you can on stuff that I think is important, you'd only be wasting it anyway..who cares what you think I want to give it to others. How can you be soooo selfish?


I am not saying you can have my paycheque. I am not saying other people can have your organs. All I am saying is you should be forced to make a decision - yes or no.
There are all sorts of ways the state interfers with my life. It limits my speed on straight dry highways. It limits what drugs I can use and how I aquire them. It grabs a piece of my paycheque.
Why I don't like the state interfering in my life, you cannot have no state that does not interfer at all. We do some sort of cost/benefit analysis each time the state interfers.
Taxes suck....but would you want to live in a world with no police. Speed limits suck....but would you want a drunk teenager passing you at 200 kmh?

Now...what is the cost benifit analysis to forcing you to sign- yes or no- when you get your drivers license ???? A few seconds vs a dead child.



crazymamma wrote:

Quote:
I don't value my corpse.
So that makes you the arbitrator of what is tasteful in corpse usage for everyone in Canada?????? It's really none of your business what folks do when they are dead, (that was just the silliest sentence I have ever typed in my life.) What right have you to cast your moralistic covetous eyes on anyone else's cadaver?


I am not saying I have a right to anyones corpse. I am saying people have to right to make a choice. All I am asking is that they make it. If you or anyone else gives a rats ass where there liver goes after they are dead, then you can sign no.

When you die, your liver will either rot, be incinerated or possibly go to save someones life. The state already has to right to assign it to either of the first two fates, all I am asking is that you be forced to choose which fate.

To look at it another way, if you do not put in your will where your car goes, the state will give it to someone.

If this did not save peoples lives, I would agree with you. But when I weigh your right not to make a choice with a childs right to live, I have to side with the child
crazymamma





Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 1011
Reputation: 71.8
votes: 14
Location: The kitchen

PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fiscalconservative wrote:
crazymamma wrote:


Quote:
I value my pay check


I also value your paycheque and I think I can spend it better then you can on stuff that I think is important, you'd only be wasting it anyway..who cares what you think I want to give it to others. How can you be soooo selfish?


I am not saying you can have my paycheque. I am not saying other people can have your organs. All I am saying is you should be forced to make a decision - yes or no.
There are all sorts of ways the state interfers with my life. It limits my speed on straight dry highways. It limits what drugs I can use and how I aquire them. It grabs a piece of my paycheque.
Why I don't like the state interfering in my life, you cannot have no state that does not interfer at all. We do some sort of cost/benefit analysis each time the state interfers.
Taxes suck....but would you want to live in a world with no police. Speed limits suck....but would you want a drunk teenager passing you at 200 kmh?

Now...what is the cost benifit analysis to forcing you to sign- yes or no- when you get your drivers license ???? A few seconds vs a dead child.



crazymamma wrote:

Quote:
I don't value my corpse.
So that makes you the arbitrator of what is tasteful in corpse usage for everyone in Canada?????? It's really none of your business what folks do when they are dead, (that was just the silliest sentence I have ever typed in my life.) What right have you to cast your moralistic covetous eyes on anyone else's cadaver?


I am not saying I have a right to anyones corpse. I am saying people have to right to make a choice. All I am asking is that they make it. If you or anyone else gives a rats ass where there liver goes after they are dead, then you can sign no.


O.K. so you have covered about just over half of Canada's population with the driver's license thing. What are you going to have the "State" do for the other 15 million folks to make sure they have the proper "OPT OUT" documents??

Steal my tax dollars to set up some new bureaucracy or add on to an old one? I thought you were a Fiscal Conservative....


Quote:
When you die, your liver will either rot, be incinerated or possibly go to save someones life. The state already has to right to assign it to either of the first two fates, all I am asking is that you be forced to choose which fate.


Congratulations you should be proud, you just endorsed the usage of the state to enforce something you think is important, never complain on this forum about inappropriate use of the states power upon you, you will not get away with that particular hypocrisy. Ever.


Quote:
If this did not save peoples lives, I would agree with you. But when I weigh your right not to make a choice with a childs right to live, I have to side with the child


I just knew that ol boring chestnut of "think of the children" was the next rabbit you would pull out. As if anyone owes the "Children" a freaking thing except their own parents and anyone else who cares to "think of the Children" voluntarily.


How about you and your like minded friends actually start a campaign to make the public more aware and educate them? How about your make folks want to donate and sign up instead of the reverse anus thing?

I do want to donate and my family is aware of my wishes, but I have complete and utter disgust for folks who think you can give these sorts of ever encroaching powers to the state and not expect it to come back and bite them in the tookus somewhere sometime, somehow in the future...enough is enough.
fiscalconservative





Joined: 08 Dec 2008
Posts: 1043
Reputation: 49.9Reputation: 49.9Reputation: 49.9Reputation: 49.9Reputation: 49.9
votes: 6

PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crazymamma wrote:

O.K. so you have covered about just over half of Canada's population with the driver's license thing. What are you going to have the "State" do for the other 15 million folks to make sure they have the proper "OPT OUT" documents??

Steal my tax dollars to set up some new bureaucracy or add on to an old one? I thought you were a Fiscal Conservative....


First of all, I said earlier that "opt out is not necessary, just say YES or NO. Its an easy question and a small piece of data. Do you suppose that we should send out bilingual tax forms because people don't want to answer the "English or French" question on the tax return ? Is there a giant bureaucracy set up to monintor who gets the French or English books ?

As for it not being fiscally conservative to set up such a process......just look at the friggin health care bills run up by people on transplant lists.


crazymamma wrote:


Congratulations you should be proud, you just endorsed the usage of the state to enforce something you think is important, never complain on this forum about inappropriate use of the states power upon you, you will not get away with that particular hypocrisy. Ever.


I was just pointing out the hypocrisy is the position that the state can decide to bury you, or cremate you, but cannot give your organs to save a life.
Why are you not campaigning against the state preventing you from rotting in the street ?

crazymamma wrote:


I just knew that ol boring chestnut of "think of the children" was the next rabbit you would pull out. As if anyone owes the "Children" a freaking thing except their own parents and anyone else who cares to "think of the Children" voluntarily.


Your right...next time I hear an ambulance coming, I will not pull over. Why should I give a crap about who is inside ?

crazymamma wrote:

I do want to donate and my family is aware of my wishes, but I have complete and utter disgust for folks who think you can give these sorts of ever encroaching powers to the state and not expect it to come back and bite them in the tookus somewhere sometime, somehow in the future...enough is enough.


ALL I am saying is make a choice. YES OR NO. Health card, drivers license, taxes, whatever. Its done all the time.
Its that friggin simple....no need for encroaching powers, tookus's or whatever.
crazymamma





Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 1011
Reputation: 71.8
votes: 14
Location: The kitchen

PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fine you are right, I'm wrong.

making it a requirement to have proof of ownership/decisions of your own body is perfectly reasonable.

Government involvement in every aspect of our lives/deaths/organs is just so very cool we need more. Please give me more. Please sir can I have some more government?

BTW what do you think of all those wasted organs for all those aborted babies, kinda a waste wouldn't you say? Lets get the government pass a law and not let woman have any in the first two tri-mesters and then we could use those organs too. After all both the government and the wombs have decided those are expendable already. Why waste a valuable resource like that. Cool idea eh? (TVMIC< SWSA)
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