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FF_Canuck





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
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Location: Southern Alberta

PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:32 pm    Post subject: Interesting Quote... Reply with quote

... from John Raulston Saul, that I found checking the spelling of Noblesse oblige:

"Indeed you can usually tell when the concepts of democracy and citizenship are weakening. There is an increase in the role of charity and in the worship of volunteerism. These represent the Úlite citizen's imitation of noblesse oblige; that is, of pretending to be aristocrats or oligarchs, as opposed to being citizens."

:shock: Volunteerism and charity are opposed to good citizenship, and do not reflect well on democracy. Who knew?

Edit: Added his wikipedia entry. He was one of brains behind Petro-Canada, which oddly enough, gives some context to the quote. At least, it does for me.
John Larocque





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PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Noblesse oblige is at the heart of the old Red Tory philosophy. There is nothing wrong with a class hierarchy so long as those at the top take care of those under them. The "Red" in Red Tory was British red. Here's one working definition:

http://deepredtory.blogspot.co.....-tory.html

Needless to say, this conservative tradition has been overshadowed in recent years by more American ideas and the weakening of the British connection. And the term "Red Tory" has been rebranded into a generic description of left of centre Tories. Odd that George Gran, Ignatieff's uncle, was also a disciple of Leo Strauss.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L.....tion[/url]
John Louis





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Location: Allen Bill Pond before the flood

PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh THAT John Raulston Saul, consort and second husband of Adrienne Clarkson.

Quote:
There is an increase in the role of charity and in the worship of volunteerism


Liberals fear the day when Canadians awake to their own abilities, free of Liberal government cradle to grave meddling, beholding to no one, creating wealth to be shared on merit, tolerating and tolerant of the majority, celebrating similarities and common ground, united against agitators and frivolous activism.

Liberals HATE unity!
FF_Canuck





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 3360
Reputation: 73.4
votes: 17
Location: Southern Alberta

PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Larocque wrote:
Needless to say, this conservative tradition has been overshadowed in recent years by more American ideas and the weakening of the British connection. And the term "Red Tory" has been rebranded into a generic description of left of centre Tories. Odd that George Gran, Ignatieff's uncle, was also a disciple of Leo Strauss.


Thanks for the interesting links. The 'rebranding' of "Red Tory" seems rather natural to me, seeing as how both mainstream Liberal and Red Tory thought believe in the use of the government to act on Noblesse oblige, whether or not they both call it that and varying by degree. The major difference is that, in theory, Red Tories are okay with the social heirarchy, and (some) Liberals think that the heirarchy should be eliminated or flattened through good government. For this reason, I see little oddity in that Grant could have informed both Ignatieff and Strauss.

What you are calling 'American ideas', is what I would call classical liberalism. The ideas of Locke, Smith, Mills, all English. And then there's the Austrian School... While the United States is perhaps the single largest inheritor and exporter of their ideals, I'm not sure that labelling them as exclusively American is correct.
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Interesting Quote...

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