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FF_Canuck





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 1:34 am    Post subject: Fraser Institute: Corporate Welfare out of control Reply with quote

From the Montreal Gazette, by way of UA:

ERIC BEAUCHESNE wrote:
"While corporate begging has become even more blatant this year, the fundamental truth has not changed," said Mark Mike, author of the report entitled Corporate Welfare: Now a $182-Billion Addiction. "Business subsidies, bailouts or loans are all forms of corporate welfare that transfer tax dollars and employment from healthy businesses to risky businesses.

"Government intervention only delays the day of reckoning and often at the expense of other businesses and a healthy industry and economy."

Research has found that corporate welfare may not have a demonstrable beneficial impact on the economy, employment and tax revenues because no new net investment or employment is created, the report said.


The report is available for free download here: LINK
Mac





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
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Location: John Baird's riding...

PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for posting that up. Anyone still think it's a good idea to bail out the Big Three?

-Mac
Rusty Bedsprings





Joined: 06 Dec 2008
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votes: 5

PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Corperate wefare only helps the optics of the situation. The PM in power can then say "well I tryed, don't blame me".
ramyam





Joined: 16 Jan 2009
Posts: 1


PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Montreal Gazette for link , it is really very useful for the current situation ..
Corperate wefare is very important today,because to increase our economic level......

===========
RAMYA

Drug Intervention Mississippi
nathaliejcaron





Joined: 28 Nov 2008
Posts: 305
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Location: Ottawa West -- Nepean

PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mac wrote:
Thanks for posting that up. Anyone still think it's a good idea to bail out the Big Three?

-Mac


Never did.

Corporate "welfare" to dying industries is pointless and only prolongs their agony. However, grants towards R&D, productivity incentives and job creation incentives have their potential as they are targeting specific results.
Mac





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nathaliejcaron wrote:
Never did.

Corporate "welfare" to dying industries is pointless and only prolongs their agony. However, grants towards R&D, productivity incentives and job creation incentives have their potential as they are targeting specific results.

Haven't the decades of failed Liberal job incentive programs and billions of taxpayer dollars throw away shown the folly of such ideas? I might concede that grants for R & D have occasionally show laudable results but job creation and productivity incentives have utterly failed to produce anything but wealth for Liberal friendly corporations over the years.

-Mac
nathaliejcaron





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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mac wrote:
nathaliejcaron wrote:
Never did.

Corporate "welfare" to dying industries is pointless and only prolongs their agony. However, grants towards R&D, productivity incentives and job creation incentives have their potential as they are targeting specific results.

Haven't the decades of failed Liberal job incentive programs and billions of taxpayer dollars throw away shown the folly of such ideas? I might concede that grants for R & D have occasionally show laudable results but job creation and productivity incentives have utterly failed to produce anything but wealth for Liberal friendly corporations over the years.

-Mac


I think the incentive has to be provided at the tail end for this to work. Like a tax credit. Let's say a company can demonstrate that it has created X amount of jobs, it could be subsidies, perhaps.

But maybe its a bad idea... I can't say I have thoroughly thought this through.
Luke Nicholson





Joined: 05 Jan 2009
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Location: Saskatoon, SK.

PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I linked to this report on my blog a while back. Its amazing the amount of money our government is just willing to give away to Canadian business. I remember when Harper actually campaigned against this stuff. Now he pledges to strengthen it. :roll:
Mac





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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nathaliejcaron wrote:
I think the incentive has to be provided at the tail end for this to work. Like a tax credit. Let's say a company can demonstrate that it has created X amount of jobs, it could be subsidies, perhaps.

But maybe its a bad idea... I can't say I have thoroughly thought this through.

The best bet is to provide conditions which invite businesses to prosper. In other words, low taxation, non-restrictive labour laws and little or no red tape.

The problem is there's three levels of government, all which want to justify their existence by regulating. The federal government has very limited influence on businesses since the majority of the regulation dealing with industries are provincial... yet the provinces and municipalities demand stimulus from the feds which always means the same thing: your money stolen through taxes...

The feds tax directly at source and, over the years, the feds have taken more and more of the tax pie which they then divvy up in the form of transfer payments, infrastructure monies and other federal funding. The provinces enjoy this because it allows them to have a "bad guy" to blame all the taxes on and someone to carp at whenever their budgets fall short due to their own fiscal mismanagement.

Anytime there's a federal jobs initiative or stimulus package, you'll find a provincial government smiling... and a Liberal friendly corporation grinning...

All corporate welfare does is deform the local market which would have been better off left alone.

For example... my father was a commercial lobster fisherman until he retired. Back in the 70s, he and his peers formed a Fisherman's Cooperative to market their fish at a higher price and to lower prices on supplies through bulk purchasing. Each harbour had it's territorial areas. Fishermen voluntarily limited the number of traps which they used. Since their livelihood depended on the fish stocks, they were careful not to overfish, to release pregnant females and undersized lobsters. The territories which didn't practice such prudence went through cycles of good and poor fishing but the guys made a living. It worked great until the feds decided to do an economic stimulus package.

The cooperative used the stimulus money to build a canning factory and the workers unionized. The private fish buyers got squeezed out. A Liberal-friendly corporation started using stimulus money from the next wave of corporate welfare to begin buying up the privateers and began competing with the cooperative. The cooperative began lowering the prices they paid for fish and raise the prices for supplies because they had to pay union wages and compete with the larger corporation.

Then Trudeau dropped his "Charter" on Canada and the traditional "territorial" system of fishing was obliterated. Fishermen were permitted to fish wherever they could drop their traps. Any area which had good fishing was swarmed. The number of lobster caught skyrocketed... and then plummeted...

When the fish stocks dropped, the unionized cooperative ended up closing because they needed more fish than they could get to stay profitable. The corporation bought them out (more federal money) and dismantled the factory.

Then the aboriginals demanded commercial licences (despite the fact that natives never fished for lobsters) and the feds obligingly "created" a native fishery which meant buying boats, traps and fishermen to teach the natives how to fish lobsters... but, since fishing is hard work, most of the natives rent their boats to regular fishermen instead of fishing themselves....

My dad retired before the bottom fell out so he got some value from his boat, gear and non-native commercial licences. Yup.... government intervention is wonderful... and the fishery still hasn't recovered...

-Mac
FF_Canuck





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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mac,

That's a fascinating story, at least to a land-lubber like me. It's almost reflex to percieve the fishery industry as a 'benefactor' of government largesse for many Canadians ... have you ever considered that as the jumping off point for a book?
Mac





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Location: John Baird's riding...

PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FF_Canuck wrote:
Mac,

That's a fascinating story, at least to a land-lubber like me. It's almost reflex to percieve the fishery industry as a 'benefactor' of government largesse for many Canadians ... have you ever considered that as the jumping off point for a book?

The satirist who wrote the jibe which I posted in the thread about the Airbus crash has been encouraging me to expand my horizons.

If/when I start writing more, I will need to do more research. Throwing opinions around is fine and fun in a forum but going from memory isn't good enough if I want any kind of credibility as an author.

The alternative is to write fiction or satire where accuracy isn't an issue.

-Mac
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Fraser Institute: Corporate Welfare out of control

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