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dotconservative





Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 49
Reputation: 26.2Reputation: 26.2Reputation: 26.2

PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 12:20 am    Post subject: The Islamist threat Reply with quote

I was at the Gaza rally in Toronto last Saturday - I got 7 direct death threats. The police eventually told the pro-Israel side to leave as they could not protect us for much longer...

All over the world, Muslims have been rallying by the thousands, threatening people, attacking people, attacking police, acting like savages...

What are we supposed to do? How do we defend our society, our culture, our values?

Write letters to the editor?
Engage co-workers in debate?
Post youtube videos of the violence?

I would really like to know. Somebody please tell me what the plan is.

How do we stem this tide? Does fire need to be fought with fire?

I'm 22 years old and my word I'm ready to go head on with these dogs in the streets. I love my country, and I hate what's becoming of it.

Basically, I'm feeling helpless and I really just want to know what the plan is...
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 6155
Reputation: 156.2Reputation: 156.2
votes: 28
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Protect yourself? What an un-Canadian thought! You have no right to bear arms, it is the police who will do the protecting. All you have to do, all you can do, is dial 911 and wait. To even consider clenching your fist just might be a hate crime.
SFrank85





Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2269
Reputation: 59.8
votes: 4
Location: Toronto - Scarborough Southwest

PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No one will threaten my life. If they did, they will have serious problems!
Rusty Bedsprings





Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Posts: 1629

votes: 5

PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dotconservative: I feel a lot of anger toward the terrorist supporters too.

I understand that these same people how harassed you would just as soon see another Holocaust. But I believe the situation in Israel is under control (for the most part) and I do not see another Holocaust with the Islamic countries in this state that they are in right now (in disarray).

If I were you I would keep my ass way way way WAY inside the law right now because now is the war for public opinion.

If Israel is threatened with a potentially devastating force against it then I would rise up. Don't get in trouble with the law before the fight has even begun well need you when it has.
Beer and Popcorn





Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 1


PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you received death threats, why not tell the police and press charges and let the criminal justice system do its job?

Is this is why we have laws in Canada that everyone must ablide by?!
DavidK





Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Posts: 1520
Reputation: 68.5
votes: 5
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beer and Popcorn wrote:
If you received death threats, why not tell the police and press charges and let the criminal justice system do its job?

Is this is why we have laws in Canada that everyone must ablide by?!


In theory, yes. In reality, not really.

ATTENTION: Mac

I realize you are a cop, but I'm sure you can attest to the absurdity of our legal system with regards to the real power of the courts and the utter lack of freedom as far as personal protection goes.

I wish Canada had more rights as far as personal protection. I'd love to legally be allowed to shoot someone if they broke in to my home or attacked me and were intent on causing harm. But as it stands, I think that'd be called excessive force (on my part).

As far as death threats - just keep on your toes and report what ya can, Dot.
dotconservative





Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 49
Reputation: 26.2Reputation: 26.2Reputation: 26.2

PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rusty Bedsprings - Wise words, thanks

Beer and Popcorn - The cops were there the whole time, they were watching as people threatened our lives, took pictures of our faces with their cellphones, etc.

Like I said before, they eventually told us to leave because they couldn't "protect" us much longer.
Some Guy 2.0





Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 304
Reputation: 21Reputation: 21
votes: 2

PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll be going to the pro-Israel rally tomorrow. If any Islamists try to physically interfere, I really don't care about the laws, I'm defending myself, my family, and my community.
urbanmonk





Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 307
Reputation: 16.8Reputation: 16.8
votes: 5

PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From a recent demonstration in Florida, check out the video that goes with the story....scary!
Protester Calls for Jews to 'Go Back to the Oven' at Anti-Israel Demonstration
FF_Canuck





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 3360
Reputation: 73.4
votes: 17
Location: Southern Alberta

PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In situations like large public demonstrations, the police have a mandate not only to uphold the law, but also to maintain public order - while it may seem unjust that they ask the smaller, more reasonable and peaceful group to move along, they are doing so precisely because that group is easier to work with, and less likely to start a riot. I can't speak for the officers present obviously, but that's probably the kind of judgement call they made.

My advice, mirroring the poster above - wherever possible comply with lawful demands, and even requests and suggestions. Think of the police as refs in a hockey game - they may or may not have seen what you have seen, they've got a lot to keep an eye on, and the quickest way to the sin bin is to keep arguing with a call. Criminal complaints can, and probably should, be discussed later, formally or informally, when the game is over. And remember, the media is there - let the pro-Hamas hooligans soak up the bad press, and keep your calm. People will notice the contrast, even the talking heads don't. YMMV...
Mac





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 5500
Reputation: 104
votes: 35
Location: John Baird's riding...

PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DavidK wrote:
ATTENTION: Mac

I realize you are a cop, but I'm sure you can attest to the absurdity of our legal system with regards to the real power of the courts and the utter lack of freedom as far as personal protection goes.

I wish Canada had more rights as far as personal protection. I'd love to legally be allowed to shoot someone if they broke in to my home or attacked me and were intent on causing harm. But as it stands, I think that'd be called excessive force (on my part).

As far as death threats - just keep on your toes and report what ya can, Dot.

The best bet in a volatile situation like counter-protesting is to have a video camera and have it running. Record the threats as clearly as possible, including uninterrupted time before the confrontation to show you've done nothing provocative. Then present a DVD of this to the police along with a statement detailing who, what, when, where and why you feel threatened.

Depending on the jurisdiction, the courts passed "absurdity" long ago. Uttering threats is one of the charges which the courts don't take seriously... unless, of course, it's a judge being threatened. :wink:

One of the "tests" which judges use when dealing with cases of uttering threats is the validity of the threat. If someone says something vague like "I'll make you regret the day you were born!" or "I'll make you wish you were dead." for some reason, the judges say there is no specific action being threatened and therefore it's not possible to convict someone.

Another "test" is whether the person uttering the threat has the ability to follow through on the threat. If someone says "I'm going to get a tank and run over you again and again until you're dead!" or "I'm going to blow you away with a howitzer so there's not enough left of you to bother burying!" the threat is specific enough but unless that person has access to a tank or a howitzer, the judges say it is not a valid threat.

Under British commonlaw (which our legal system is based upon), defense of the home is sacrosanct. Even now, as far as their court system has morphed, the Brits still consider a man's home to be his castle. The Canadian system left that behind during Trudeau's tenure. Property rights weren't a priority to him.

-Mac
Fred Litwin





Joined: 21 Aug 2009
Posts: 2


PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 3:17 pm    Post subject: Bruce Bawer comes to Ottawa Reply with quote

All attendess to this event will receive a free copy of the DVD Obsession! Please pass this email around to your friends and others who might be interested.

Fred Litwin
Free Thinking Film Society
www.freethinkingfilms.com



The Free Thinking Film Society Presents our first speaker!

We are proud to announce that Bruce Bawer will be coming to Ottawa on September 14th to speak to us. We will also be hosting a reception for Bruce and everybody right after his speech and Q&A.

Date: September 14, 2009, 7:00 PM
Place: National Archives/Library of Canada, 395 Wellington Street Ottawa
Admission: $15.00
Admission includes reception at the Archives

Tickets are now available at two locations:

Ottawa Folklore Centre (1111 Bank Street, Ottawa, (613) 730-2887) - in Ottawa South.

Compact Music (190 Bank Street) Near Nepean.

Bruce Bawer's latest book is "Surrender: Appeasing Islam, Sacrificing Freedom". and here are some short reviews:

"Sublimely literate and rational...an immensely important and urgent book."
- Booklist (boxed, starred review)

"An alarming, depressing, brilliant and remarkably courageous book."
- Martin Sieff, Washington Times

"Bruce Bawer has yet again written an excellent book....I truly hope that it will serve as an eye-opener for everyone." - Geert Wilders

“Written with an urgency and clarity that makes it hard to stop reading and re-reading it. It should be studied by all who wish to understand the forces at work in the West that make an Islamic ‘House of Peace’ a brewing nightmare.”
- Ayaan Hirsi Ali

"With courage and verve, Bruce Bawer builds the case for how 'the West is on the road to sharia'....Bawer rousingly and rightly argues that the West’s unwavering principle must be 'a refusal to sacrifice or compromise liberty - no matter what.'"
- Daniel Pipes, Director, Middle East Forum

"Liberals should be in the forefront of the defense of free expression against the deeply disturbing threats Bruce Bawer documents."
- Ron Rosenbaum, author of Explaining Hitler and The Shakespeare Wars


BIO of Bruce Bawer

Considered one of America's leading cultural critics, Bruce Bawer was born in New York City in 1956 and received his BA, MA, and PhD in English from the State University of New York at Stony Brook.

Described by Kirkus Reviews as "a literary essayist for the ages," he has published several volumes of literary criticism, including Diminishing Fictions (1988), The Aspect of Eternity (1993), and Prophets and Professors (1995). His other books include A Place at the Table (1993), one of the most influential books ever written about homosexuality; Stealing Jesus (1997), which Publishers Weekly called “a must-read book for anyone concerned with the relationship of Christianity to contemporary American culture"; Coast to Coast (1993), which was named by the Dictionary of Literary Biography Yearbook as the year’s best first book of poems; and While Europe Slept (2006), a National Book Critics Circle Award finalist and New York Times bestseller. Bawer's latest book, Surrender (2009), was described by Booklist as "sublimely literate and rational...immensely important and urgent." Bawer has also contributed hundreds of articles and reviews to such publications as The New York Times, The Washington Post, The Wall Street Journal, City Journal, The Wilson Quarterly, The Chronicle of Higher Education, The New Republic, Cato Policy Report, The Nation, and The Times Literary Supplement, and is a regular contributor of literary essays to The Hudson Review. Since 1999 he has made his home in Oslo, Norway.

New York Times Book Review
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07......html?_r=1

There is no more important issue facing the West than Islamism, Islamofascism or — to use yet another label — radical Islam. And there is no more necessary precondition to countering that threat than understanding it: where it springs from, how it is expressed and the ways in which it is spreading. But before we do any of that, we have to agree that the threat exists.

For the United States, the danger so far has taken the form of terror, as 9/11 so clearly demonstrated. In Europe, terror is real too, but a more insidious problem has now taken hold: many liberals and others on the European left are making common cause with radical Islam and then brazenly and bizarrely denying both the existence of that alliance and in fact the existence of any Islamist threat whatever.

Bruce Bawer’s “Surrender: Appeasing Islam, Sacrificing Freedom” is focused on this phenomenon. Bawer, an American writer who lives in Norway — the archetype, even the caricature, of the liberal European mind-set — seeks to show, among other things, that the United States is becoming as culpable as Europe, its liberal news media and college campuses willfully refusing to acknowledge the danger posed by radical Islam and opening their pages and seminars to those who seek the undoing of the very tenets that allow liberals — and everyone else — their freedoms. Bawer devotes much of his book to an attack on The New York Times for refusing to highlight the Islamist threat while swallowing the claims of figures like Tariq Ramadan, a supposed moderate who, Bawer writes, is “a habitual practitioner of the Islamic art of taqiyya — which essentially means saying one thing in Arabic and another thing in English or French.”

But it’s when he turns to Europe that Bawer is able to provide example upon example of how the West is becoming its own worst enemy. He cites, for instance, the welcome offered by the former mayor of London, Ken Livingstone, to the Muslim cleric Sheik Yusuf al-Qaradawi, who supports suicide bombing and the execution of homosexuals. Livingstone proudly hugged Qaradawi in public at City Hall.

That alliance between a man who is presumed to be a proud liberal — Livingstone was a member of the same Labour Party as the prime minister at the time, Tony Blair — and a Muslim cleric who would return the West to barbarism was far from unique. But Livingstone is a politician. He is accountable to voters for his behavior, and he was voted out of office.

More pernicious, perhaps, is the refusal of institutions that depend on freedom of speech for their very existence to stand up for that freedom. Bawer analyzes the story of the 12 cartoons of Muhammad published in the Danish newspaper ­Jyllands-Posten in September 2005, which is emblematic of the “surrender” of his title. When the paper was attacked by radical Muslims for daring to mock Muhammad, solidarity from other newspapers in supposedly free nations across the globe was paltry. The response of political leaders was even worse. Rather than confronting a blatant, indeed self-proclaimed, attempt to ensure that Islam could not be treated like any other subject in a free country — that is, mocked, criticized or satirized — politicians and editors simply cowered in fear of retaliation. Even those newspapers that offered words of support to Jyllands-Posten refused to reprint the cartoons.

Almost the only leader to show any backbone was the Danish prime minister, Anders Fogh Rasmussen. His response to a demand by Muslim leaders for a meeting was to tell them that “it is so self-evidently clear what principles Danish society is based upon that there is nothing to have a meeting about.”

“Surrender” is, at times, hard going. In part that is because of the level of detail Bawer offers in support of his argument. But “Surrender” is hard going in another respect as well. Bawer is unquestionably correct, and that fact is quite simply ­terrifying.
Stephen Pollard, the editor of The Jewish Chronicle, is the author of “Ten Days That Changed the Nation: The Making of Modern Britain.”
--------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mo-kn3tK9KM

Bill Moyers interview of Bruce Bawer...
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The Islamist threat

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