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| Should we expand Canadian access to Concealed Weapon Permits? |
| No, we should ban handguns. |
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12% |
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| No, we should keep our gun laws where they are. |
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15% |
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| Yes, Restricted - ie. to off duty, retired, and part-time law enforcement officers. |
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| Yes, May Issue |
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25% |
[ 8 ] |
| Yes, Shall Issue |
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| Total Votes : 32 |
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ezbeatz
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Posts: 1140
  
votes: 10
Location: Vaughan, ON
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 Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 10:42 pm Post subject: Thoughts on Concealed Carry in Canada |
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| On this post, I want to ask what you think about expanding our concealed carry laws in Canada. We do, believe it or not, have concealed carry in Canada. In fact, we've always had it. It's just been extremely limited. I was wondering what your thoughts, if any were on it. |
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FF_Canuck
Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 3360
votes: 17
Location: Southern Alberta
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| Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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I support CCW, Shall Issue policy - though you may want to explain the differences between Shall Issue and May Issue in your first post, for the benefit of those less familiar with the details.
Technically, Canada is CCW, May Issue , with draconically tight restrictions compared to other May Issue schemes. |
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Craig
Site Admin
Joined: 29 Aug 2006
Posts: 4415
votes: 36
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| Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't support it. There are lots of crazies out there and I don't want to think that my life could end if I cut one of them off while driving. |
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ezbeatz
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Posts: 1140
votes: 10
Location: Vaughan, ON
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| Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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| FF_Canuck wrote: | I support CCW, Shall Issue policy - though you may want to explain the differences between Shall Issue and May Issue in your first post, for the benefit of those less familiar with the details.
Technically, Canada is CCW, May Issue , with draconically tight restrictions compared to other May Issue schemes. |
For those that are not familiar with the differences between May Issue and Shall Issue, I'll explain.
May Issue laws mean that if you meet the criteria that is required of you, the government 'may issue' a concealed permit to you. Whether or not that happens depends on the criteria of issuing. May Issue permits in Canada are extremely hard to get and if I'm not mistaken, require a court to approve of it on the grounds that your life is in danger (ie. mafia informant). Some states have local Sheriffs pass May Issue permits, others have government beauracrats. It varries. There can also be a mandatory delay installed during the application process.
Shall Issue means that if you qualify (appropriate training, courses, background check, age, etc.) then you MUST be issued the permit. The government can't stop you. |
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ezbeatz
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Posts: 1140
votes: 10
Location: Vaughan, ON
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| Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Craig wrote: | | I don't support it. There are lots of crazies out there and I don't want to think that my life could end if I cut one of them off while driving. |
I think there was a study done in the US that found that those who had Concealed Carry Permits were 14 times less likely to commit a crime than your average American. |
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Mac
Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 5500
votes: 35
Location: John Baird's riding...
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| Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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Interestingly enough, off-duty police officers can carry concealed if they're using approved holsters... I've never bothered but that's me... I voted CCW- Shall Issue.
Craig, if those crazies you're worried about were serious about getting a gun, they would do so. Heck, most of them wouldn't bother with a gun... they'd just use their car as a weapon. Less chance of being convicted of using a car than a gun!
-Mac |
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Craig
Site Admin
Joined: 29 Aug 2006
Posts: 4415
votes: 36
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| Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Mac wrote: | | Craig, if those crazies you're worried about were serious about getting a gun, they would do so. Heck, most of them wouldn't bother with a gun... they'd just use their car as a weapon. Less chance of being convicted of using a car than a gun! |
Rage strikes everyone at uncertain intervals. I would prefer people not have a gun readily available at those times. They could use their car but given the fact that most cars cost $25,000 or more many people refrain from doing so. Besides, totaling your car makes it pretty obvious that you did it. |
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FF_Canuck
Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 3360
votes: 17
Location: Southern Alberta
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| Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:03 am Post subject: |
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| Craig wrote: | | I don't support it. There are lots of crazies out there and I don't want to think that my life could end if I cut one of them off while driving. |
For what it's worth, in the 31 US States that currently authorize some form of concealed carry there have been no documented incidents of that happening where legally carrying citizens were the shooters.
There was a racially motivated road rage incident in Florida last year, where a black man with a CCW permit was run off the road and pulled from his vehicle by two white men with knives - the victim shot and wounded both attackers. The surviving attacker was charged with attempted murder. |
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| Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:08 am Post subject: |
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I am accustomed to handling and using guns / firearms / bang-sticks (whatever term you prefer), although it has been quite a few years since I did so......as I am more of a target shooter than a hunter, I chose not to keep any in my home when I got married and had kids.
I have no problem with people owning firearms of any type. As long as people are sensible enough to properly secure them, I really don't care if you want to own enough to equip your own militia unit. The concept of carrying a concealed handgun though is a little trickier ........ I'm not necessarily opposed to the idea. The main problem I have is that our current "justice" system has a tendency to blame society as a whole, the phase of the moon, or some other lame excuse of the day instead of assigning personal responsibility for actions. Until we reverse that way of thinking, allowing CCW without conditions will almost certainly lead to something stupid. |
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Mac
Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 5500
votes: 35
Location: John Baird's riding...
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| Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:19 am Post subject: |
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| Craig wrote: | | Rage strikes everyone at uncertain intervals. I would prefer people not have a gun readily available at those times. They could use their car but given the fact that most cars cost $25,000 or more many people refrain from doing so. Besides, totaling your car makes it pretty obvious that you did it. |
If it's truly rage, the cost of the car would be meaningless... and worrying about the consequences isn't normally associated to rage either... If unpredictable rage is such a problem, how can we trust anyone with anything... ever?
The underlying assumption of prohibiting something is that the average person is incapable of being adult and making mature choices. If someone feels themselves to be incapable of controlling themselves at all times, it would be best if they don't have access to a gun. I don't trust governments to make that decision for me.
-Mac |
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| Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:24 am Post subject: |
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I worked down in the US for a while. Wyoming, Kansas and Missoui. In those states carring firearm was no big deal. Sort of like it was here 25-30 years ago. However handguns were a lot more popular than they are here as there was no difference between buying a rifle or hand gun unlike Canada where it really isn't practical as you can't take a pistol with you when you go camping or canoeing.
In Canada there are a lot more rifles per capita than there are in the US from what I saw. States that have concealed carry laws saw a big drop in crime.
Here in Canada it seems the only people who bother to obey our handgun laws would be the ones least likely to do evil with them. The dope dealers seem to pack guns around with impunity. I have never heard of one going to jail just for carrying a handgun.
I think that if you don't have a felony record and no history of mental illness you should be allowed to carry a handgun when in rural areas. Registering any form of weapon is a waste of money that could be better spent on police, crown procecuters or whatever. |
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FF_Canuck
Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 3360
votes: 17
Location: Southern Alberta
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| Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:48 am Post subject: |
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| Darth Vader wrote: | | I think that if you don't have a felony record and no history of mental illness you should be allowed to carry a handgun when in rural areas... |
While I understand this as a 'compromise' to the urbanites who have an intense fear of inanimate objects, it's as good as not having the ability to carry at all. If I'm in an area where I'm worried about 4 legged predators, I've got a choice of several long guns, that I'd probably have with me anyways. CCW is for the two-legged predators that are far, far more common in the city, and along with pepper spray or a taser, it's a choice I'd like my post-secondary attending sisters to have, even if they don't make use of it. |
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Craig
Site Admin
Joined: 29 Aug 2006
Posts: 4415
votes: 36
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| Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:56 am Post subject: |
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| Mac wrote: | | If it's truly rage, the cost of the car would be meaningless... |
I rather take my chances car on car than against a bullet.
| Quote: | | If unpredictable rage is such a problem, how can we trust anyone with anything... ever? |
That is tantamount to saying that everything is the same as everything. If someone comes at me with a knife I have a chance to run away or fight back. If someone comes at me with a gun I'm dead.
| Quote: | | The underlying assumption of prohibiting something is that the average person is incapable of being adult and making mature choices. |
Absolutely - I don't trust the "average person" and I think a significant portion of our population is NOT mature.
| Quote: | | If someone feels themselves to be incapable of controlling themselves at all times, it would be best if they don't have access to a gun. I don't trust governments to make that decision for me. |
This isn't an argument about whether or not people should have ACCESS to a gun. It is about whether people should be allowed to carry them around in public. |
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| Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:57 am Post subject: |
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| In the cities I think a person should have to take a CCW course like they do in the US. If nothing more it would stop the morons from carring one around. However out in the country why bother? There is nothing stopping you from carring a rifle so why not a handgun? |
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Craig
Site Admin
Joined: 29 Aug 2006
Posts: 4415
votes: 36
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| Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:58 am Post subject: |
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| I fully support the right to have a gun in your home to protect your property and family. I just don't think you should be allowed to walk around downtown with a gun in your pocket. |
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