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 Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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| paulalexdij wrote: | | I wonder when 'they' are going to get around to sorting this out? |
Looks like we might hear today.
| Quote: | | Leitch says a lawyer for Young will appear Thursday in a B.C. Supreme Court to ask a judge to check every vote cast. |
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beaver
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Posts: 124
  
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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Wth? Even counting 50% is NOT enough.
EVERY SINGLE vote MUST be counted in such a close race. Get it into your heads, Elections Canada. |
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| Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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so I'm guessing they didn't finish counting yesterday ?
(no word out here on the MSM yet)
ps. this whole fiasco is absolutely scandalous -- I hope PMSH launches a full inquiry and introduces legislation to prevent a recurrence of this kind of democratic deficit ... |
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beaver
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Posts: 124
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| Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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Update: FULL recount has started, results will come out earliest by Monday.
So far, they've counted 20 more boxes, and the margin of win (22 votes) has remained more or less the same. There still still over a hundred boxes left to go. |
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| Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 8:54 am Post subject: |
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Thank you for that interesting theory, which is so far the only plausible explanation I have heard.
I am glad that all the salvaged votes have now finally been properly counted, but given the fact that the number of missing ballots (!?) greatly exceeds the supposed margin of victory, the election in this riding should undoubtedly be declared null and void, and a by-election should be called.
And there should be a full investigation into this lack of accountability.
If there are any other ridings where the number of missing votes exceeds the margin of the presumed victory they should also be declared null and void, and by-elections should be called for them.
I am particularly appalled at how little attention this grave democratic deficit has received. Do people not care that our electoral system has quite evidently been so severely compromised that we cannot account for all the ballots !?
Is there now any way that we ordinary citizens can even find out how many ballots actually went missing all across the country?
I'm afraid I have completely lost all confidence in the way that elections canada counts and verifies the vote totals, and I will not be able to trust them again unless and until there are court-ordered by-elections in all pertinent cases and a complete legal reworking of the whole manner in which votes are counted.
It is difficult to persuade non-voters to participate if ballots are permitted to go missing without any recourse ...
This story is not over .... |
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| Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you for that work.
So it appears that we should have at a minimum (in my view) by-elections for Vancouver South, Brossard - La Prairie and Esquimalt - Juan de Fuca, and possibly Brampton West as well. Of course pursuing this only sensible (in my view) path would raise such a stink that the fallout and ramifications could well last as long as this minority parliament itself, but no matter, it should be done (in my view) in order to try to salvage whatever remains of our reputation for free and fair elections. Of course we should probably have by-elections in all ridings where the number of missing votes is greater than the margin of victory (including, in order to be non-partisan, ridings that we have actually won).
The million-dollar question is, how many ridings are effected by this missing vote phenomenon, since we have so far only been able to determine that votes have gone missing in ridings where recounts were held. But perhaps even a comparison of the preliminary and 'validated' turnout figures in other ridings may reveal further pertinent discrepancies.
Unfortunately if we really want to see some action on this dossier any time soon, we might perhaps have to alert the Bloc to the possibility of there having been Liberal malfeasance in Brossard - La Prairie. They for sure would not be pussyfooting around in the face of such glaringly obvious and potentially incriminating evidence. |
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| Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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| well it's too bad Wai Young wasn't able to overcome Dosanjh, but it's comforting to know, that in such a liberal riding, conservatives came within 20 votes of taking the riding. I'm just waiting for the next election! |
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mrsocko
Joined: 29 Oct 2006
Posts: 2380
votes: 8
Location: Southwestern Ontario
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| Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Anyone know if they recounted the spoiled ballots and what change there was there? |
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Craig
Site Admin
Joined: 29 Aug 2006
Posts: 4250
votes: 34
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| Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 12:25 am Post subject: |
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| ToryOttawaSouth wrote: | | well it's too bad Wai Young wasn't able to overcome Dosanjh, but it's comforting to know, that in such a liberal riding, conservatives came within 20 votes of taking the riding. I'm just waiting for the next election! |
On the other hand it is kind of sad that the Chinese population voted for the Chinese candidate. It could have been the very best white candidate possible and it wouldn't have been nearly as close. Racial politics at its best. |
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| Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:42 am Post subject: |
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| Craig wrote: | | ToryOttawaSouth wrote: | | well it's too bad Wai Young wasn't able to overcome Dosanjh, but it's comforting to know, that in such a liberal riding, conservatives came within 20 votes of taking the riding. I'm just waiting for the next election! |
On the other hand it is kind of sad that the Chinese population voted for the Chinese candidate. It could have been the very best white candidate possible and it wouldn't have been nearly as close. Racial politics at its best. |
Yes it is kind of sad. I used to be an idealist in that regard and in many ways I still am. Personally I like to think this is not a factor in my choices. However in middle age I have come to accept that for better or worse like it or not such bias is part of human nature and practically everybody indulges in it and probably always will.
(An unmentioned and perhaps unmentionable factor is also that intra-vim bias is higher than average. So far fortunately this has not yet become terribly significant in canada though.) |
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| Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:48 am Post subject: |
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| mrsocko wrote: | | Anyone know if they recounted the spoiled ballots and what change there was there? |
on election night 42,479 'valid votes' and an unknown number of rejected ballots were 'counted'
the next day a total of 42,076 votes including 259 rejected ballots were 'validated'
at the third (partial) count 42,077 votes including 218 rejected ballots were 'certified'
on the fourth try there were 42,075 votes including 223 rejected ballots
changes in the total number of ballots were
from count 1 to count 2: at least 403 fewer !
from count 2 to count 3: one more
from count 3 to count 4: two less
changes in number of rejected ballots were
from count 1 to count 2: unknown
from count 2 to count 3: 41 fewer
from count 3 to count 4: five more
changes in number of ballots counted for the liberals were
from count 1 to count 2: 673 fewer !
from count 2 to count 3: two less
from count 3 to count 4: one more
changes in number of ballots counted for the conservatives were
from count 1 to count 2: 73 more
from count 2 to count 3: 19 more
from count 3 to count 4: three more
changes in number of ballots counted for the ndp were
from count 1 to count 2: 181 more !
from count 2 to count 3: 13 more
from count 3 to count 4: six less
changes in number of ballots counted for the greens were
from count 1 to count 2: 42 fewer
from count 2 to count 3: one more
from count 3 to count 4: three less
changes in number of ballots counted for the marxist-leninists were
from count 1 to count 2: one less
from count 2 to count 3: one more
from count 3 to count 4: two less
(largest variances are highlighted)
the fourth count must surely have been the least inaccurate and all rejected ballots should have been re-examined but no specific explanations for any of these changes have been provided
interestingly enough the biggest gainer between count 1 and count 2 was the ndp candidate which is particularly interesting given Mr. Dosanjh's election night quote reported in the papers that 'ndp votes should count as liberal'
while this final count may indeed be accurate it seems apparent that some type of (perhaps unnecessary) vote-rigging was going to be attempted although maybe it is 'just' a case of gross incompetence and negligence and I stand to be corrected by anyone in authority investigating these discrepancies !
anyone wishing to do the 'eye-balling' and 'number-crunching' for themselves can find the official results at http://enr.elections.ca/Electo.....px?ed=1324 |
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beaver
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Posts: 124
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| Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 5:32 am Post subject: |
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| Craig wrote: | | ToryOttawaSouth wrote: | | well it's too bad Wai Young wasn't able to overcome Dosanjh, but it's comforting to know, that in such a liberal riding, conservatives came within 20 votes of taking the riding. I'm just waiting for the next election! |
On the other hand it is kind of sad that the Chinese population voted for the Chinese candidate. It could have been the very best white candidate possible and it wouldn't have been nearly as close. Racial politics at its best. |
In 2004, Victor Soo Chan ran in Vancouver South and still lost by a significant margin (9000 votes) to Ujjal Dosanjh. The Chinese candidate lost... which disproves the fact that people vote just on race. This time, Wai Young closed the gap to only 20 votes. Surely, it can't just be that she's Chinese. I think the main factor here was the Conservatives' appealing record on law and order, immigration, and lower taxes -- which really resonate with the Asian population.
Although, I do agree that some degree of voting based on racial lines does exist. But look at it this way ... the Chinese are the largest ethnic minority group in Canada with well over 1 million people. It's understandable that they'd want to be represented fairly in parliament. |
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cosmostein
Joined: 04 Oct 2006
Posts: 3207
votes: 13
Location: Toronto, Ontario
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| Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 11:07 am Post subject: |
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| beaver wrote: | | Craig wrote: | | ToryOttawaSouth wrote: | | well it's too bad Wai Young wasn't able to overcome Dosanjh, but it's comforting to know, that in such a liberal riding, conservatives came within 20 votes of taking the riding. I'm just waiting for the next election! |
On the other hand it is kind of sad that the Chinese population voted for the Chinese candidate. It could have been the very best white candidate possible and it wouldn't have been nearly as close. Racial politics at its best. |
In 2004, Victor Soo Chan ran in Vancouver South and still lost by a significant margin (9000 votes) to Ujjal Dosanjh. The Chinese candidate lost... which disproves the fact that people vote just on race. This time, Wai Young closed the gap to only 20 votes. Surely, it can't just be that she's Chinese. I think the main factor here was the Conservatives' appealing record on law and order, immigration, and lower taxes -- which really resonate with the Asian population.
Although, I do agree that some degree of voting based on racial lines does exist. But look at it this way ... the Chinese are the largest ethnic minority group in Canada with well over 1 million people. It's understandable that they'd want to be represented fairly in parliament. |
I tend to agree in that regard,
but you cannot totally discount racial or religious influenced voting.
Look at the Mississauga Erindale situation. |
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