| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
kwlafayette

Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 6155
   votes: 28
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan
|
Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:32 pm Post subject: Innocent until proven guilty. |
|
|
It seems lately that this has fallen by the wayside, and that is bad because this is a very important pillar in the rule of law. Most recently, it is that Khadr fellow, but there are many recent examples.
The court of public opinion decides a person is guilty, and that is just it. |
|
|
|
 |
Craig
Site Admin

Joined: 29 Aug 2006
Posts: 4415
      votes: 36
|
Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| The rules of war are and should be different than the law of the land. |
|
|
|
 |
kwlafayette

Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 6155
   votes: 28
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan
|
Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
All I am saying is, if I am ever accused of a crime, I am hoping a judge gets to hear me out before the jury makes a decision. It seems no one cares about either facts or due process anymore. Khadr, for example, has to go through the process before his guilt can be established; but he has to go through the process, whether he comes out clean or is proven guilty.
People have divided into two camps, the he is innocent and the he is guilty camp. As i said, there have been many recent examples of this. Mulroney/Shreiber, Harper/Cadman, just to name 2. |
|
|
|
 |
gc
Joined: 23 Jun 2007
Posts: 1698
      votes: 16
Location: A Monochromatic World
|
Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:01 am Post subject: Re: Innocent until proven guilty. |
|
|
| kwlafayette wrote: | | It seems lately that this has fallen by the wayside, and that is bad because this is a very important pillar in the rule of law... |
I agree. Everyone should be innocent until prove guilty, rather than spend years in Gitmo before even going to trial.
| Quote: | | People have divided into two camps, the he is innocent and the he is guilty camp. As i said, there have been many recent examples of this. Mulroney/Shreiber, Harper/Cadman, just to name 2. |
Or Martin/Sponsorship, Brison/Income trusts etc... Basically any accusation of wrongdoing against a Liberal... |
|
|
|
 |
FF_Canuck

Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 3360
  votes: 17
Location: Southern Alberta
|
Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I agree that trial by media is a real problem in our times. I've seen very, very few cases where the ongoing reporting and analysis of a criminal or civil proceeding is of actual benefit to the public. Another one of those tough cases where you have to balance competing rights - in this case, the right to free speech competes with the right to a fair trial. And that at the same time that they compete, media access can be part of guaranteeing a free trial. I don't know what that ideal balance point is, but I don't think we've found it yet. |
|
|
|
 |
|
Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
I think in the case of Khader, it's not so much the fact of whether or not he committed murder, but rather the fact that he was an active member of Al-Queda and the Taliban.
Even if he isn't guilty of murder in this instance, there is no doubt that he was willing to murder and most likely has killed in the past. |
|
|
|
 |
Sheila
Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 556
  votes: 16
Location: Central Alberta
|
Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Cool Blue wrote: | | Even if he isn't guilty of murder in this instance, there is no doubt that he was willing to murder and most likely has killed in the past. |
Even if he isn't guilty of murder, you would convict him on thought crimes or things you have no knowledge of him doing? Wow how Canadian is that?
Just like the Bernier/Couillard affair, where no one was guilty of anything. But if you check back on that thread you will see all the atrocities committed by both parties. Harper was right when he called them a bunch of gossipy old men. :lol: |
|
|
|
 |
gc
Joined: 23 Jun 2007
Posts: 1698
      votes: 16
Location: A Monochromatic World
|
Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Sheila wrote: | | Even if he isn't guilty of murder, you would convict him on thought crimes or things you have no knowledge of him doing? Wow how Canadian is that? |
I think they made a movie about that, starring Tom Cruise :lol: |
|
|
|
 |
|
Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| What % of people have their cases publically discussed by the media? |
|
|
|
 |
|
Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
Even if he isn't guilty of murder, you would convict him on thought crimes or things you have no knowledge of him doing? Wow how Canadian is that? |
There is a legal term for what you're describing: Attempted murder.
Or conspiracy, or providing support to a terrorist organization.
Even if he is not guilty of that specific charge of murder, he is clearly not innocent of criminal activity.
Funny how the media and the left are only focusing on that one video of him. Remember that other video of Khadr and what he was doing?
Planting roadside bombs to kill our troops. |
|
|
|
 |
Mac

Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 5500
  votes: 35
Location: John Baird's riding...
|
Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Yes... and no...
As far as the criminal courts are concerned, the presumption of innocence is firmly intact, even more so in recent years. At this point, the "innocent until proved guilty beyond reasonable doubt" has evolved into "beyond any doubt whatsoever" and the Crown prosecutors won't even contemplate a case which isn't airtight... and even some of those get tossed for arbitrary reasons.
The "court of public opinion" is operated by the media and the public who are gullible enough to accept their nonsense. In that court, there are no rules of evidence and the verdict comes before the trial since the journalists who write the tripe are the judges.
-Mac |
|
|
|
 |
|
Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Sad now that Offenders can twist the system to their own advatange case in point the young offenders act. You have no idea how many i knew when i was young manipluted the law to their advatange. |
|
|
|
 |
kwlafayette

Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 6155
   votes: 28
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan
|
Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 10:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Cool Blue wrote: | I think in the case of Khader, it's not so much the fact of whether or not he committed murder, but rather the fact that he was an active member of Al-Queda and the Taliban.
Even if he isn't guilty of murder in this instance, there is no doubt that he was willing to murder and most likely has killed in the past. |
Yeah, there are those pictures of him smiling, carrying the string of human hands around. |
|
|
|
 |
|
Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 9:27 pm Post subject: Re: Innocent until proven guilty. |
|
|
| gc wrote: | | kwlafayette wrote: | | It seems lately that this has fallen by the wayside, and that is bad because this is a very important pillar in the rule of law... |
I agree. Everyone should be innocent until prove guilty, rather than spend years in Gitmo before even going to trial.
| Quote: | | People have divided into two camps, the he is innocent and the he is guilty camp. As i said, there have been many recent examples of this. Mulroney/Shreiber, Harper/Cadman, just to name 2. |
Or Martin/Sponsorship, Brison/Income trusts etc... Basically any accusation of wrongdoing against a Liberal... |
I don't recall Martin, or Brison, being declared "guilty" by the court of public opinion.
Parts of the Liberal party was actually found guilty by an actual court, when it comes to the Sponsorship Scandal - so of course that's going to rightfully spill over into the court of public opinion.
The Mulroney/Shreiber, and Harper/Cadman, affairs are entirely different. |
|
|
|
 |
gc
Joined: 23 Jun 2007
Posts: 1698
      votes: 16
Location: A Monochromatic World
|
Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 9:41 pm Post subject: Re: Innocent until proven guilty. |
|
|
| Habsrwfan wrote: | | I don't recall Martin, or Brison, being declared "guilty" by the court of public opinion. |
Really? Just look on this forum, or other political forums. |
|
|
|
 |
|