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dotconservative





Joined: 10 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:52 am    Post subject: Raise Tuition Fees Reply with quote

As some of you may - or may not - know, November 5th will be the Canadian Federation of Student's Day of Action for "reducing tuition fees".

For more information on their campaign, see http://www.cfs-fcee.ca/html/en.....ground.php

As a conservative, I naturally felt that such an opportunity to address the premise of the CFS campaign, spark a debate and stir shit up a little bit was too much to pass up on. So, I am putting together a flyer to be handed out at the CFS rallies.

The front of the flyer will say,

RAISE TUTITION FEES
(Education is Not a Right)

The back of the flyer will advance the argument for less subsidization, better quality education and a free market determining tuition costs. I would also like to include a bit about scholarships and other alternatives to subsidization to make post-secondary affordable to truely ambitious and deserving, but "low-income" students.

Really the back of the flyer is what I'd like your take on... what should be included, what shouldn't, how it should be worded, positioned, argued...

Any feedback, comments, ideas, etc. are all appreciated. Once I've finalized the text for the back of the flyer, I will send it to my graphic designer and post the final product here.

I will also be filming myself and some friends distributing the flyers at the CFS rallies. The reactions should be fun to watch.
dotconservative





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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm thinking I might just put an excerpt of a Yoni Goldstein piece I read in the National Post,

"[M]ost Canadians refuse to accept this possibility because our system of publicly funding universities and colleges has ingrained in us the message that going to college is a right, not a privilege and responsibility. So we pretty much all go. And why not? Itís cheap (yes, even at $5,000 a year), itís fun and there are virtually no expectations placed on you ó just do what you please, study (or donít) what you want and weíll see you in four years. Maybe youíll have gained a skill, maybe not, but either way at least youíll have ďexperiencedĒ university.

This is nonsense; taxpayers should not be forced to pay for marginal specimens to have a four-year vacation from reality. Those who truly benefit from university ó the ones who use what they learn to become businessmen, teachers or continue studies into law and medical school or academia ó are being held back by a system that is designed to accommodate lower-calibre students.

And the kids who donít belong in university are losing out, too. Instead of languishing in a four-year program, struggling for a B-minus average, they could be learning a trade in half the time that would lead to a solid, and often quite lucrative, career. (Have you noticed how trade schools have resorted to basically begging for students on TV and radio ads?)

Want to know why thereís no Canadian equivalent to Harvard or Yale or Oxford (and forget it UofT grads, youíre not on the level)? Itís because we donít have the guts to be exclusive, to pick only the best and forget about the rest. And so the smartest Canadians are forced to travel abroad to get the best possible education. Oftentimes, they never return.

By funding education for all, we have undermined our education system, the very basis for wealth and productivity in todayís globalized knowledge economy."

Yongi Goldstein on Canada's biggest mistake: Funding higher education for all and sending marginal specimens to university

National Post, April 09, 2008

--

It is a little wordy though, so the flyer might become a pamphlet. Thoughts?
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are correct. If education is worth having, then it is worth paying for. The low tuition that we enjoy in Canada has done nothing to benefit our post secondary institutions. Canada, to put it simply, has no Harvard medical, or Harvard law, no MIT. Canadian students are getting at most, and only sometimes, what they pay for, and that is a shame. If you are shopping around the world for a top flight education, Canada is down the list. If you are ground breaking researcher and professor looking for a place to hang your hat, the US or Israel, or the UK, or Germany, or Japan, or Taiwan will be looked at long before Canada.
Hasdrubal





Joined: 30 Oct 2006
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Location: Nova Scotia

PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The solution is not to raise tuition. We need look at reforming the system where students should have a mandatory job, a few years of work experience, a minimum amount of money in their bank accounts, a minimum age of attendance, limiting class sizes in career driven jobs by the current demand in the field. Of course that means revising minimum grade point averages which would have to factor demand as well, & the two year diploma's for many programs have to be revised & extended to a four year degree.

There are many wealthy kids that can't do jobs in supervisory roles, doctoring patients, presiding over court cases, political avocation, etc. There are many impoverished children that would be shut out from these opportunities that can do the job better then many that can afford the education if tuition was to rise dramatically. I would further state that there are too many universities that Canada can carry, & we need to consolidate them to save costs on the tax payer. In addition all student loan programs should be canceled, therefore forcing students to work part time jobs. In other words don't cut tuition make the students work for it therefore giving them the taste of the work life.

I'm also going to state an another opinion from outside the box government civil service jobs need to be cut & outsourced to freelancers from within Canada. And that should be one of the hands on approach that universities should train their students to do. Now of course work loads should also have a focus on not what they want to train you for but what is in demand & within the trainers skill set.
Willg





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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This campaign is very active at University of Ottawa. These are the same people that will complain when university services get cut because of lower tuition fees. The School of Management (which I attend) at the U of O had a building built for them donated by Paul Desmarais (hehe) and $25 million endowment by Ian Telfer, CEO of GoldCorp and there of course was the bleeding hearts complaining because Paul Desmarais is an evil corporate snake.
Blue Meanie





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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's the deal. Students need to know that the "basic" education they received as children may have been a right, but "higher" education for adults is not. As adults, they are individuals who must decide what they want to do with their lives. That's their choice alone, as I'm sure they would agree. There are many others who have no interest or are not suited for higher education. Why should they subsidize those that do? So if you want "the say, you gotta pay".
They should understand that higher education is really an "investment" in their own future and if they aren't prepared to "risk" their own money in it, why should taxpayers and society?
dotconservative





Joined: 10 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Willg wrote:
This campaign is very active at University of Ottawa. These are the same people that will complain when university services get cut because of lower tuition fees. The School of Management (which I attend) at the U of O had a building built for them donated by Paul Desmarais (hehe) and $25 million endowment by Ian Telfer, CEO of GoldCorp and there of course was the bleeding hearts complaining because Paul Desmarais is an evil corporate snake.


This is actually being planned for OttawaU, as well as any other school that's interested, I'll make the flyer available online.

Let me know if you're interested in handing some flyers out.
Willg





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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dotconservative wrote:
Willg wrote:
This campaign is very active at University of Ottawa. These are the same people that will complain when university services get cut because of lower tuition fees. The School of Management (which I attend) at the U of O had a building built for them donated by Paul Desmarais (hehe) and $25 million endowment by Ian Telfer, CEO of GoldCorp and there of course was the bleeding hearts complaining because Paul Desmarais is an evil corporate snake.


This is actually being planned for OttawaU, as well as any other school that's interested, I'll make the flyer available online.

Let me know if you're interested in handing some flyers out.


Hmmm do I know you?
dotconservative





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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As for the "to raise or not to raise tuition fees" point, the way I see it, under a free-er market, with less government subsidy, tuition fees would naturally increase.

This could be countered, however, with an increase in available privately-funded scholarships for high-performing students.

The shift from lower tuition for all, appealing to the lowest common denominator, to targeted scholarships for those ambitious, hard working and, dare I say it, intelligent enough is the way to go. The incentive would shift from simply participating to excelling.
the silent platform





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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i'd be interested in getting some
dotconservative





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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Willg wrote:
dotconservative wrote:
Willg wrote:
This campaign is very active at University of Ottawa. These are the same people that will complain when university services get cut because of lower tuition fees. The School of Management (which I attend) at the U of O had a building built for them donated by Paul Desmarais (hehe) and $25 million endowment by Ian Telfer, CEO of GoldCorp and there of course was the bleeding hearts complaining because Paul Desmarais is an evil corporate snake.


This is actually being planned for OttawaU, as well as any other school that's interested, I'll make the flyer available online.

Let me know if you're interested in handing some flyers out.


Hmmm do I know you?


Probably not... BUT if you're interested, let me know.
dotconservative





Joined: 10 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, so I wrote this "Open letter to all students" for the back of the flyer -


An open letter to all students.

Dear all,

As you know, today is the Canadian Federation of Student's Day of Action, where the opportunity to recreate the 60s is revived and the leftists get to act like the radicals their parents told them they once were. Today, thousands of students are hitting the streets to scream, shout, shake it all about, and ultimately demand cheaper access to higher education.

To establish the premise of the debate, education is being touted as a right. A right, of course, should not be subject to one's ability - or willingness - to pay. And so, these rallies are organized, flyers are being distributed, banners are being raised and placards waved, all to petition for "lower tuition fees" - that is, roughly translated from liberalese: higher taxation for an increase in government subsidies.

Lower tuition fees for the poor as well as the rich; the intellectual as well as the dunce; the diligent and ambitious as well as the Wednesday through Sunday shit-faced party animal; the business, engineering, medicine and law student as well as the Ancient Romanian Tragic Poetry major.

Regardless of whether or not a student is needing, qualified, deserving or could justify receiving someone else's earned income, they receive it. And not enough of it, apparently.

Now, most of us recognize that EDUCATION IS NOT A RIGHT, at least not a real right. Life, liberty and property are real rights. Though our charter gets it wrong on the latter, it does get it right on education - not listed. As such, financial assistance should be earned, not demanded at rallies.

While the CFS and their comrades advance their campaign for lower tuition fees, we of Blue Leaf would like to provide an alternative:

We call for the elimination of subsidies, which by their nature don't discriminate rich from poor, dumb from smart, slacker from hard-worker, and have them replaced with an increase in privately funded grants, bursaries and scolarships. These could, and undoubtedly would, be geared to smarter people, poorer people, harder-working people, hard-working smart poor people or whatever combination of those more needing and deserving.

Basically, we call for a cultural shift from a subsidy dependent society to one, free from government intervention, that encourages and fosters personal and corporate philanthropy. Also, a shift in student's incentive for qualifying for financial assistance from simply partipating (if that) at University to excelling.

Our way is better than theirs. Join us.

Signed,

A voice from the conservative resistance.
dotconservative





Joined: 10 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Due to budgetary constraints, the flyer idea has been reduced to a black ink, one sided, open letter to students.

Though not as visually apppealing, it is just as effective in promoting an alternate (conservative) viewpoint and is now substantially cheaper to print 8)

To view it,

http://www.facebook.com/event......amp;ref=nf

If anyone is interested in a .pdf version to print and distribute November 5th, let me know through this thread or the facebook page.


Last edited by dotconservative on Sun Nov 02, 2008 4:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
hamiltonguyo





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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tuition should be equal to the cost of to the University providing it.

Government Grants should replace tuition subsidies and should be based on financial need, marks, and need in the field.

One third on each. So say you're poor, but brilliant (95% plus average), and are going into medicine. Full funding.

Rich, stupid (80% average) and going into teaching (huge oversupply of teaching graduates currently). No funding at all.

Everyone who is intelligent should have access to education to achieve their potential. This is best for the country, not just the individual. What happens now though is that people who shouldn't be going to university, or are rich enough that they can afford it, or are going into a field which there is glut of graduates for.

Of course even students with full funding would have to help pay their way. Living expenses and books and other course materials will still require they work or take out student loans.

I might be biased however. I had a 90's average, and am going into medicine, so i'd have a lot to gain in this situation.
AutumnFalls





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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a student the prospect of cheaper tuition is appealing, but practically speaking shouldn't be done. But, I don't think it should be raised either. I think we as students should pay for a higher education, but some of the prices such as textbook prices are a bit ridiculous. That being said I think what needs to be done is more scholarships and bursuries for those of us in the middle class. Speaking from personal experience I had a terribly hard time getting scholarships. Mind you I did work and save up as much money as I could throughout high school. But, I found that unless you are a genius, minority, or extremely poor there is little funding to be found. I don't think it is horrible, but for the average joe Canadian who wants a higher education to improve themselves and their working capabilities it is hard to come by. Furthermore, for those like me who pay for school themselves without parental money it is very difficult. Student loans are generally given out based on several factors including money saved, expected costs and parental income. The parental income in my situation lowers the amount of tuition that I could get because they expect my parents to be contributing to my education. In any case, I will cut my rant short. I chose to go to university and I think it is a responsibility and a privilege not a right and therefore should be paid for. However, there aren't enough options for those like me - especially in an economic recession.

As a side note, this is not meant to be a pity me post. I chose university and all the monetary and other struggles it may bring.
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