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Bleatmop





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FascistLibertarian wrote:
Bleatmop Im sure Obama agrees with you that he should CHANGE his vocab.
His speeches could use some CHANGE.

hahahahah

what America needs is a white man and the status quo.


Well, if that's what you think, then so be it. I personally see little difference between Obama and McCain. It actually reminds me of the south park episode where the kids had to choose a new mascot. Their options were a giant douche and a turd sandwich. My only problem in differentiating between McCain and Obama is figuring out which one is which.
JBG





Joined: 03 Oct 2007
Posts: 823
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votes: 8
Location: NYC Area

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrsocko wrote:
Obama's message of hope and change are an inspiration to all those who hope change will change things and give people hope. He is the only hope for change the U.S. has and it's not just change for the sake of change or hope for the sake of hope, but real change and real hope!

Hopefully this message of change will resonate with those who hope for change!!! 8)
Missing [sarcasm][/sarcasm] tags?
winchry





Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 115
Reputation: 16.5Reputation: 16.5
Location: Sarnia, Ontario

PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Obama despite his rating as the most liberal senator from the National Journal is quite Conservative. He has spoken about balancing the budget, tax cuts for the middle class, and many other things common considered to be conservative views. Furthermore John McCain is clearly soldout many of his opinions so he could get the parties nomination. Obama is a man of character, and he would force Washington to finally be accountable. And furthermore I agree with his stance on climate change. He doesnt want to pour in government money as seems to be the popular idea in Canada. Obama wants to create green jobs and a green economy. Jobs that can't be shipped overseas. He wants to make a democracy an economic world leader again, take a little oomph out of Chinas step. For me the choice of Obama over Clinton or McCain is a clear one, a smart one, and a conservative one.
FF_Canuck





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 3360
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votes: 17
Location: Southern Alberta

PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

winchry wrote:
Obama despite his rating as the most liberal senator from the National Journal is quite Conservative. He has spoken about balancing the budget, tax cuts for the middle class, and many other things common considered to be conservative views.


Actually, Obama's platform has been costed at $300 billion in new spending per year - and that's only the 60% of his platform that estimates could be made for. Over five years, they would cost about $1.4 trillion. His proposed tax increase, on the other hand, would only generate $225 Billion over the same 5 year period.

Speaking of taxes: while you've mentioned his promises to cut middle-class taxes, perhaps you were not aware that Obama's tax plan / philosophy actually calls for an overall tax increase - by vastly increasing taxes to buisiness and upper income earners.

It is clear from Obama's speeches and proposals that he wants to introduce a nanny state the likes of which the US has never seen, which may even exceed the scope of Hillary's wildest dreams.

Protectionism has not been a conservative value since WWII, and I'm not sure that socialism and internationalism ever have been. While McCain is decidedly less conservative than many in his party are happy with, suggesting that Obama is a more conservative choice is plainly rediculous.
winchry





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Location: Sarnia, Ontario

PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FF_Canuck wrote:
While McCain is decidedly less conservative than many in his party are happy with, suggesting that Obama is a more conservative choice is plainly rediculous.


I wans't suggesting Obama is more Conservative but saying that i prefer him as a candidate becasue he carries some conservative views i agree with. I support Obama because I think is is a man of better character than McCain. McCain would be a president who struggles to get his centrist ideas through a conservative congress. I feel he would be ineffective, and he would continue the failed Bush policies of the past 4 years.

FF_Canuck wrote:
Over five years, they would cost about $1.4 trillion. His proposed tax increase, on the other hand, would only generate $225 Billion over the same 5 year period.

Bush has created more debt than any president in US history. I dont think we should look to the Republicans if we're looking for fiscal responsibility.
FF_Canuck





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
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Location: Southern Alberta

PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

winchry wrote:
FF_Canuck wrote:
While McCain is decidedly less conservative than many in his party are happy with, suggesting that Obama is a more conservative choice is plainly rediculous.


I wans't suggesting Obama is more Conservative but saying that i prefer him as a candidate becasue he carries some conservative views i agree with. I support Obama because I think is is a man of better character than McCain. McCain would be a president who struggles to get his centrist ideas through a conservative congress. I feel he would be ineffective, and he would continue the failed Bush policies of the past 4 years.


In other words, he is the anti-war candidate that you most prefer. I'm not touching the question of character, because that's a matter of opinion that can neither proven nor disproven. Obviously, I feel McCain has superior character. I won't deny that Obama is nicer and more charismatic. Congress is not conservative, it is controlled by the Democrats. So yes, Obama will likely pass leftist legislation through a liberal Congress easier than McCain could pass 'centrist' legislation.

winchry wrote:
FF_Canuck wrote:
Over five years, they would cost about $1.4 trillion. His proposed tax increase, on the other hand, would only generate $225 Billion over the same 5 year period.

Bush has created more debt than any president in US history. I dont think we should look to the Republicans if we're looking for fiscal responsibility.


Bush's spending record is irrelevant to how much Obama's plan would cost. Are you one of those people that has to be reminded that Bush is not running for President? Whichever Democrat wins the nomination, they'll have to compare their records with McCain's, not Bush's.

The point is that Obama is not conservative, not matter how much you may wish him to be. The knots that some Canadian conservatives tie themselves into trying to be different from 'Chimpy McBushHitler and his Rethuglicans' never cease to amaze me.
winchry





Joined: 22 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FF_Canuck wrote:
In other words, he is the anti-war candidate that you most prefer.

No it is the environment issue I care about. I supported the war, although clearly it has gone poorly. While I do not support a complete quick withdrawl like Obama supports, I do support some mojor changes to the US's Iraq policies. Even though McCain is a progressive candidate when it comes to the environment he will water down his position on the issue during the election, and liekly brush the issue aside once he takes office.

FF_Canuck wrote:
Congress is not conservative, it is controlled by the Democrats. So yes, Obama will likely pass leftist legislation through a liberal Congress easier than McCain could pass 'centrist' legislation.


I mean likely after the election if McCain wins the election. Most canadidates running with the Republicans would be to the right of McCain, so congress after would likely be conservative. Yes, the democrats could still hold congress after a McCain victory but that is unlikely.

FF_Canuck wrote:
Bush's spending record is irrelevant to how much Obama's plan would cost. Are you one of those people that has to be reminded that Bush is not running for President? Whichever Democrat wins the nomination, they'll have to compare their records with McCain's, not Bush's.


No Bush isnt running for president but the party he represnts is. Without the party behind him, Bush wouldnt have even been president. The Republican party has elected, supported, and agreed with Bush for the past 8 years. McCain has agreed with Bush on almost every major issue. He was endorsed by Bush. He is without a doubt a continuation of Bush's policies. While not all of his policies are the same (global warming) the vast majory of them are. Many of the ones he differs on (illegal immigration) McCain takes the liberal point of view.
FF_Canuck





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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*If* your major, overriding issue is pro-AGW / Kyoto, then I would agree either Democrat is a better choice. There is a slight chance that McCain will moderate his stance on that during the general election On the other hand, McCain has a history of acting aggressively against the wishes of conservatives and GOP brass - I'm not as certain as you are that he'll cease his support for AGW initiatives.

winchry wrote:
I mean likely after the election if McCain wins the election. Most canadidates running with the Republicans would be to the right of McCain, so congress after would likely be conservative. Yes, the democrats could still hold congress after a McCain victory but that is unlikely.


I'm still having problems following you on this matter. In Congress is once again controlled by the Republicans, Obama will have a *much* harder time passing legislation then McCain will.

As for the war? The surge is working, and even the MSM is grudgingly admitting that. While it was the brainchild of General Petraeus, it was nonetheless also a Bush policy. It is a policy the McCain agrees with and supports. Obama, as you said, favours instant withdrawal. McCain has continuously fought against the administration and GOP on issues like Guantanamo Bay and water-boarding. He was also against the disbanding and rejection of low-level Baathist army and police organizations, again in contradiction to Bush.

Bush and McCain were allied on the immigration issue, but their 'solution' aka Shamnesty, was defeated when the conservative base revolted against them. McCain has also fought against Bush and GOP on the election of judges and many spending bills.
JBG





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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:11 pm    Post subject: Obama's "Beer and Popcorn" Moment Reply with quote

Barack Obama has had a "beer and popcorn" moment. In discussing his difficulties with working-class voters he stated, on Sunday, April 6: "It's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." His "retraction" wasn't much better (link to article):

Associated Press wrote:
The campaign has been quick to react, hoping to defuse any damage caused with working class voters that Obama needs to win over in upcoming primaries in Pennsylvania and Indiana.

"Lately there has been a little typical sort of political flare up because I said something that everybody knows is true, which is that there are a whole bunch of folks in small towns in Pennsylvania, in towns right here in Indiana, in my hometown in Illinois who are bitter," Obama said Saturday morning at Ball State University. "They are angry. They feel like they have been left behind. They feel like nobody is paying attention to what they're going through."

"So I said, well you know, when you're bitter you turn to what you can count on. So people, they vote about guns, or they take comfort from their faith and their family and their community. And they get mad about illegal immigrants who are coming over to this country or they get frustrated about you know how things are changing."

After acknowledging that his previous remarks could have been better phrased, he added:

"The truth is that these traditions that are passed on from generation to generation those are important. That's what sustains us. But what is absolutely true is that people don't feel like they are being listened to.

"And so they pray and they count on each other and they count on their families. You know this in your own lives, and what we need is a government that is actually paying attention. Government that is fighting for working people day in and day out making sure that we are trying to allow them to live out the American dream."


This just shows a certain focus on "elites". The ordinary voters are ignored, at the peril of these politicians, whether PMPM or Obama.
donmuntean





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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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