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Lar_drewstar





Joined: 04 Sep 2006
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Location: Winnipeg Manitoba

PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 12:23 am    Post subject: The Conservative Party Reply with quote

Just a thought I was wondering aloud the other day, what percentage do you think of the members of the Conservative party are social conservatives compared with more libertarian/fiscal conservatism? On this forum I get the idea there are a lot of Libertarians but perhaps this is not an accurate reflection of the total number within the party itself. Just an speculative question thrown out there.
mrsocko





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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Put up a Poll man!

Libertarian/fiscal conservative here.
Lar_drewstar





Joined: 04 Sep 2006
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Location: Winnipeg Manitoba

PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well like I said I think the amount of libertarians on the BT forums are not reflective of the true membership of the party... so I dont really see a point in putting one up other than for symbolic value.
Mac





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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe libertarians represent a minority in the Conservative Party. The reason for that is pretty simple. Most Canadians don't learn about libertarianism until they're adults and only then if they take an interest in politics. I also believe that libertarian element is growing as red Tories become familiar with libertarian concepts.

-Mac
Craig
Site Admin




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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think lots of people like to say they are libertarian because it is fashionable.

I'm a social conservative with a strong law and order foundation.
Cool Blue





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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my experience at conventions and what not:

So-Con: 25-30%

Libertarian 10-15%

By So-Cons I mean the real hardcore. The majority of members are moderates.

During the voting at the Montreal convention, the percentages of how many people voted for something was displayed on the screen so you could see how things went on the issues like abortion and SSM.
Mac





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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool Blue wrote:
In my experience at conventions and what not:

So-Con: 25-30%

Libertarian 10-15%

By So-Cons I mean the real hardcore. The majority of members are moderates.

My experience at conventions was twenty years ago and in the Maritimes so no longer current. Even so, I'm surprised by how high your so-con number is, especially if those are the hard-core... Do you consider the 10-15% of libertarians to be equally hardcore about their position??

Cool Blue wrote:
During the voting at the Montreal convention, the percentages of how many people voted for something was displayed on the screen so you could see how things went on the issues like abortion and SSM.

I wonder to what purpose?

-Mac
SFrank85





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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really wonder myself. I am a strong social/moral conservative.
Cool Blue





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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Even so, I'm surprised by how high your so-con number is, especially if those are the hard-core...


You think so? 1 in 4, 25% seems about right IMO. Remember, the evangelical movement and social conservatism is stronger in the west, which is where we get a lot of our members.


Quote:
Do you consider the 10-15% of libertarians to be equally hardcore about their position??


No, probably less than 5% are real hardcore libertarians.


At the convention the reason they displayed the voting percentages was because in order for a policy to pass, it has to pass with not only the majority of delegates, but also the majority of provinces.

So all the delegates are seated according to which province they're from. The chair of the meeting asks for first a visual vote where people raise white hand cards. If it is obvious to the chair that the vast majority support the policy its passed right away.

If the chair isn't comfortable with a visual vote, he asks the delegates to enter their votes electronically, which automatically calculates and shows the results on screen with a breakdown by province.

This way everything is transparent.

It was really interesting seeing how votes broke down by province. As you would expect some policies have very strong support in the west but as it went east the numbers decreased.

I recall one interesting vote (I believe it was on supporting citizen initiated referendums) where the majority of delegates supported it, however it didn't get the majority of provinces so it didn't pass. Ironically, the old Reform method of policy development, prevented an old Reform policy from being adopted in the new party.
dotconservative





Joined: 10 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I want to know how many are both social and fiscal conservatives (and foreign policy conservatives).. that is - conservatives.

I believe an unborn baby should have a right to life and I believe limited government and tax cuts are superior to a tax and spend big government. These are not incompatible ideologies, au contraire.
FascistLibertarian





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Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My views dont fit into some neat box sadly, depending on the issue im all over the place.

Im pretty socially liberal.

Its a 2 party system, you gotta pick sides.

There are a lot of conservative Liberals but I consider myself a liberal Conservative.

Honestly everyone is going to say they are a 'fiscal conservative'! lol.
FF_Canuck





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
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Location: Southern Alberta

PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To add further complexity, being personally socially conservative is not incompatible with a libertarian view of government. So, while I personally share many convictions with 'SoCons', I differ on the desire to make those beliefs government policy. But I digress...

I would put the SoCon faction of the CPC membership at somewhere around 25%. They likely make up a smaller fraction of CPC voters, however ... perhaps 15 to 20% ?
Mac





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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FascistLibertarian wrote:
Honestly everyone is going to say they are a 'fiscal conservative'! lol.

Saying it ain't living it. Anytime I hear fiscal conservatives supporting things like art funding and carbon taxes...

-Mac
FF_Canuck





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
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Location: Southern Alberta

PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mac wrote:
FascistLibertarian wrote:
Honestly everyone is going to say they are a 'fiscal conservative'! lol.

Saying it ain't living it. Anytime I hear fiscal conservatives supporting things like art funding and carbon taxes...

-Mac


Indeed. When I hear Red Tory, that's what comes to mind... someone with the paradoxical notion that government should cut taxes while increasing funding to a medley of pet projects.
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